YouTube: Andre Drummond's Offensive Game Thread

[E-Z]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE6Kc66L-1U&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Points per possession (in the post): 0.71 (Scale, 1, excellent, 0.9 great, 0.8, good, 0.7, average)
Post-ups per game: 0.95
Shot attempts: 112 (77 actual attempts with no fouls or turnovers)
FG%: 40 percent

Every make is in chronological order from start to finish.

Edit: I will add all of his second chance and transitional plays soon (Amazing btw). This man looks like a young Shaq in terms of athleticism and touch around the rim.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFQ8EYNfE60[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2jvP0INvt8[/youtube]

[ImHeisenberg]

Nice highlight reel.

There's a foundation there, but he still needs a lot of work in the low post.

[Notanoob]

As the numbers show, he's clearly got work to do.

That said, given his natural strength and quickness, with additional coaching he should be able to become a good post-up threat. Even Dwight Howard was able to be an effective post player despite his robotic-looking game because he was stronger and quicker than the people guarding him.

[E-Z]

I wanted to extrapolate how many shots Drummond would need per game to average 20 points a game if everything remained constant (points from free throws, offensive rebounds, oops, etc.).

He scores 1.06 points per possession (including any free-throws). He averages 9.5 shots per game.

1.06PPP * 9.5 attempts per game = 10.07 points per game.

13.5 points per game is his regular season scoring average.

His scoring distribution is split 75%-25% in terms of baskets to free throws made.

Drummond would need 14 shot attempts per game to average 20 points per game. That would be an increase of 4.5 shots per game.

His scoring distribution as follows (and req for 20ppg):

Post-ups: 10.8% (1.15 post ups per game)
Pick and Roll: 9.3% (1.302 P&R per game)
Cuts: 19.8% (2.77 cuts per game)
OREB: 36% (5.04 OREB per game)
Tansition: 13.6% (1.904 transition attempts per game)
Hustle: 9.3% (1.302 hustle plays per game)
Random: 0.11%

Drummond does have some work to do to be a good post player, but the bar isn't that high to be a Dwight Howard or even Greg Monroe for that matter.

Dwight Howard's post efficiency:

Points per posession: 0.77
FG%: 46%
Shot attempts: 785 (53.1% of total attempts)

Greg Monroe's post efficiency:

Points per posession: 0.8
FG%: 43%
Shot attempts: 442 (53.1% of total attempts)

Players like DeMarcus Cousins, Al Jefferson, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin have set the bar in terms of efficiency. Al Jefferson is an absolute monster in terms of sheer shot volume and efficiency.

Al Jefferson's post efficiency:

Points per posession: 0.97
FG%: 51%
Shot attempts: 863 (51% of total attempts)

LaMarcus Aldridge

Points per posession: 0.86
FG%: 40%
Shot attempts: 776 (39% of total attempts)

Blake Griffin

Points per posession: 0.95
FG%: 48%
Shot attempts: 656 (30% of total attempts)

DeMarcus Cousins

Points per posession: 0.89
FG%: 45%
Shot attempts: 508 (30% of total attempts)

Kevin Love

Points per posession: 0.92
FG%: 44%
Shot attempts: 433 (23% of total attempts)

Anthony Davis

Points per posession: 0.88
FG%: 40%
Shot attempts: 184 (14% of total attempts)


Drummond's shot distribution on offense will have to change a bit, and his scoring average can increase about a point if he shot at least 60% from the charity stripe. I'm not exactly sure if Drummond will see so many of his points on the offensive glass, given he has some more talented shooters around him going forward, so his shots will definitely have to come elsewhere.

[qm22]

positives: he only has general weaknesses rather than limitations; i..e, he can score from many starting points and if the defense takes something away he will seamlessly take what they give him, and he had the same capabilities against strong post-defenders as lesser players (though this is not possible to judge from the reel as it is only made baskets).

The horrid FT% is basically what differentiates him from Anthony Davis PPP according to the info posted here.

[E-Z]

positives: he only has general weaknesses rather than limitations; i..e, he can score from many starting points and if the defense takes something away he will seamlessly take what they give him, and he had the same capabilities against strong post-defenders as lesser players (though this is not possible to judge from the reel as it is only made baskets).

I thought about making a reel of his post misses and TO's but they're bad. Real bad.

[qm22]

positives: he only has general weaknesses rather than limitations; i..e, he can score from many starting points and if the defense takes something away he will seamlessly take what they give him, and he had the same capabilities against strong post-defenders as lesser players (though this is not possible to judge from the reel as it is only made baskets).

I thought about making a reel of his post misses and TO's but they're bad. Real bad.

Bad isn't such a deteriment IMHO, it would be hilarious and maybe Drummond would watch it

[E-Z]

positives: he only has general weaknesses rather than limitations; i..e, he can score from many starting points and if the defense takes something away he will seamlessly take what they give him, and he had the same capabilities against strong post-defenders as lesser players (though this is not possible to judge from the reel as it is only made baskets).

I thought about making a reel of his post misses and TO's but they're bad. Real bad.

Bad isn't such a deteriment IMHO, it would be hilarious and maybe Drummond would watch it

I have absolute faith in Drummond as he's much, much, further along the curve than Dwight Howard at the same stages in their careers.

Take a look at points per game, shot attempts, and usage percentage between Drummond and Howard.

Dwight Howard's Rookie Season:

Points per 36 minutes: 13.2
FGA per 36 minutes: 9.1
Usage percentage: 16.7%
Turnover precentage: 16.1%

Howard's Sophomore Season

Points per 36 minutes: 15.4
FGA per 36 minutes: 10.5
Usage percentage: 21.3%
Turnover precentage: 15.9%

Drummond's Rookie Season:

Points per 36 minutes: 13.8
FGA per 36 minutes: 9.9
Usage percentage: 17.2%
Turnover precentage: 12.2%

Drummond's Sophomore Season:

Points per 36 minutes: 15.1
FGA per 36 minutes: 10.6
Usage percentage: 16.7%
Turnover precentage: 10.7%

Drummond was capable of matching Howard's production per 36 minutes in his sophomore season with significantly fewer touches. The turnover percentages indicate that Drummond could handle increased usage in the paint, as his the way he finishes around the rim is much more refined than Howard (he's not bobbling passes out of bounds, and making careless decisions).

Drummond's turnover percentages are much more in line with Shaq than Howard. Drummond's post game is much more similar to Shaq's as well. Drummond's post hook is actually well refined for his age.

Take a look at shooting percentages based on shot type:

2001-02 Shaq (as far back as the data can go)

Hook-shot: 51%
Layups: 64%
Dunks: 95%
Tips: 28%

Rookie Dwight:

Hook-shot: 49%
Layups: 39%
Dunks: 93%
Tips: 33%

Sophomore Dwight:

Hook-shot: 47%
Layups: 44%
Dunks: 90%
Tips: 37%

Rookie Drummond:

Hook-shot: 18%
Layups: 48%
Dunks: 91%
Tips: 60%

Sophomore Drummond:

Hook-shot: 56%
Layups: 58%
Dunks: 92%
Tips: 54%

Drummond's improvement from last season is monumental. It's almost safe to say he NEEDS more touches in the paint if anything. His soft touch around the rim is amazing. I have a video that shows nothing but his scoring from offensive rebounds, and some of those tip-ins seem nearly impossible, yet he does it consistently.

[tmorgan]

Howard... and even Shaq... have nothing on Drummond as far as controlling tips and getting them to fall. Dude is amazing. He needs a lot of work on body control in the post and some additional moves, but he's going to be AT LEAST the scorer Howard is if he gets the touches.

I'd venture to say he's a little behind Dwight defensively at the same level of experience, but there's some hope there, too.

[E-Z]

Howard... and even Shaq... have nothing on Drummond as far as controlling tips and getting them to fall. Dude is amazing. He needs a lot of work on body control in the post and some additional moves, but he's going to be AT LEAST the scorer Howard is if he gets the touches.

I'd venture to say he's a little behind Dwight defensively at the same level of experience, but there's some hope there, too.

I didn't want to turn this thread into the "Andre Drummond" thread altogether, but defensively speaking, he has Howard beat on that end as well. I'll get into that some other time, but I'll have to agree with your assessment. At worst, Drummond is Dwight Howard at this stage. At best? Easily Shaq territory, that's if he can shoot free throws at a somewhat better clip.

[Q00]

So glad someone made this. Thanks for sharing.

[DBC10]

Mmm, all that data and stats.

It only begins to confirm what we all knew. Sweet.

[E-Z]

Aw man, I remember watching this video before and after he was drafted. Several times.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1xHtOMCJPg[/youtube]

Drummond has nearly obliterated any weaknesses in his game (4 minute mark).

[Entourage27]

drummond was number 10 in the nba in BPG average (1.62) he needs to get that number to be closer to 2 next season.

he led the league in offensive rebounding, his total was 440 offensive rebounds. deandre jordan came in second with 331. THAT IS A 109 DIFFERENCE!! we might be witnessing the greatest offensive rebounder in the history of the nba.

another amazing stat is greg monroe is 7th in the nba in total offensive rebounds.

monroe and drummond are elite rebounders and they really do play well together. i have a josh smith jersey and i still can not stress this enough that the dude has to GO! this is something amazing that we have and we need to build around it ASAP

[Maker_84]

he just looks so unorthodox on offense and not fluid. Until he develops some real go to post moves he will be nothing more than just a good player and not a great player. He has outstanding athleticism but let's face it he is no Shaquille O'Neal in that area and can't just get by on his athleticism. Maybe SVG can put very good offensive players around him 1-4 and we wont have to worry about it as much

[E-Z]

he just looks so unorthodox on offense and not fluid. Until he develops some real go to post moves he will be nothing more than just a good player and not a great player. He has outstanding athleticism but let's face it he is no Shaquille O'Neal in that area and can't just get by on his athleticism. Maybe SVG can put very good offensive players around him 1-4 and we wont have to worry about it as much

He's producing results in the post, comparatively to his Kwame-Brown-esque performance at UCONN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h_HYSTjCIA

He's come a long way, and he's willing to learn and improved. You're suggesting that you would be surprised if he became a force on the low block?

Even then, he's already great given his rebounding, offensive efficiency, steals and shot blocking ability. He's probably the only center in the league who can clog up a P&R by himself and come away with the steal. However, this thread is about his offensive production, and where he'll possibly be in the future. All indications suggest he's surpassing Dwight Howard, and approaching somewhere a lot closer to Andrew Bynum at this point.

[hoophabit]

he just looks so unorthodox on offense and not fluid. Until he develops some real go to post moves he will be nothing more than just a good player and not a great player. He has outstanding athleticism but let's face it he is no Shaquille O'Neal in that area and can't just get by on his athleticism. Maybe SVG can put very good offensive players around him 1-4 and we wont have to worry about it as much

Drummond needs further development as a post scorer, no doubt. I don't really follow the idea that he lacks fluidity or is generally unorthodox. Some things he does are unorthodox because very few bigs can do them. A lot of the baby hooks and jump hooks look pretty conventional to me. I do think he tries too many finesse moves when he should be playing to his strength. At the moment he is just getting by on this athleticism. Shaq came into the league already completely committed to exploiting his physical dominance. Drummond needs to play a more physically aggressive game. However, every player has their own game. Maybe having an offensive scheme where the ball finds him regularly will help, along with maturation.

[tmorgan]

Shaq was the extremely rare young big that used almost pure power and athleticism and got away with it. Yeah, he had some foul troubles really early on, but he basically physically dominated the paint from year one.

Drummond is EVERY BIT the athlete that Shaq was. EVERY BIT. He's just not as skilled, and definitely not as polished. He could get there. It's unlikely -- I mean, we are talking about the greatest pure power player of all-time, here -- but he's the only other person I've seen since Shaq's debut that actually has the natural ability to do it. There have been a few others in the past, but they all had other issues. Moses was great, just not quite AS great, and not quite the same athlete. Dawkins was probably just too stupid. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few others.

[Maker_84]

Shaq was the extremely rare young big that used almost pure power and athleticism and got away with it. Yeah, he had some foul troubles really early on, but he basically physically dominated the paint from year one.

Drummond is EVERY BIT the athlete that Shaq was. EVERY BIT. He's just not as skilled, and definitely not as polished. He could get there. It's unlikely -- I mean, we are talking about the greatest pure power player of all-time, here -- but he's the only other person I've seen since Shaq's debut that actually has the natural ability to do it. There have been a few others in the past, but they all had other issues. Moses was great, just not quite AS great, and not quite the same athlete. Dawkins was probably just too stupid. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few others.

you cant say Drummond is the athlete Shaq is when Shaq for being just about as quick as Drummond was 3 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. IMO Shaq is the most talented basketball player EVER even over Jordan and Lebron he was just lazy and never developed his offensive game. Drummond can't afford to be that lazy because he doesnt possess the same physical tools Shaq has

[ComboGuardCity]

Aw man, I remember watching this video before and after he was drafted. Several times.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1xHtOMCJPg[/youtube]

Drummond has nearly obliterated any weaknesses in his game (4 minute mark).

I remember that video as well.

The Syracuse game:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR5NILcXjoo[/youtube]

and the Amare-like High school ball skills:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXB6vc5Z_A4[/youtube]

That's when I knew 100% he was going to be good.