Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[Bernman]

Oden wasn't a gimp. He only had a wrist injury in the recent years before the draft. It's revisionist history to act like his injuries were that foreseeable, and he was a bad pick by Portland, a fantastically run franchise. If not for the bad luck of the Oden and Roy injuries, PDX may have had a dynasty with Oden-Aldridge-Batum-Roy-Miller, and at worst they would have been regular contenders.

To wit though, that shouldn't be cause to not select Embiid. Embiid has his own injury history, which shouldn't be conflated with Oden's, and his too, from what we know, is not concerning enough to avoid selecting him given his potential impact if he does stay healthy, which is a probability. Everybody toward the top even in this draft carries their risks.

[Ron Swanson]

well greg odom was a dudue that size who could do everything embiid could do.Let me ask if odom instead of enbiid was in the draft this year would u feel the same way bout him as you do about embiid(without knowing bout odoms health concerns.)

Nope. Embiid has much better footwork, ball handling, jump shooting, and post moves. Oden was really good at dunking basketballs and not much else (ala Drummond). Oden on the other hand could have been one of the best defensive centers ever while Embiid should still be pretty damn good.

I'm definitely pro-Embiid, but this is not true. Embiid is a more fluid athlete than Oden was coming out of school. But Oden had a very good array of post moves and back to the basket scoring ability.

From a pure talent standpoint, he was the best big to come out since Tim Duncan at the time. He had tremendous potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.

[Bucks_MacGyver]

I got killed by casual fans when I said I would take Durant over Oden.

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[Ill-yasova]

I'm definitely pro-Embiid, but this is not true. Embiid is a more fluid athlete than Oden was coming out of school. But Oden had a very good array of post moves and back to the basket scoring ability.

From a pure talent standpoint, he was the best big to come out since Tim Duncan at the time. He had tremendous potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/greg-oden

Weaknesses: Offensively Oden isnt very polished with his back to the basket Nor does he possess a big assortment of moves Needs to expand his shooting range, as of right now Oden is very uncomfortable facing the basket

http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz34B67Z227

Despite his ability to get position, Oden will often get a little too aggressive with his footwork or put himself a little out of position, leading to misses and turnovers. While 47% from the post isn’t a bad percentage, it is the one area where Oden stands to improve the most over time. He lacks the fluidity, counter-moves and improvisation skills that can make him great, but he’s still able to do some of the things that he did in the NCAA for stretches –albeit only against certain defenders. After spending virtually all of last offseason rehabbing, it will be interesting to see if Oden takes this summer to develop a go-to-move.

[Serge28]

I see Hakeem as Embiid's absolutely highest ceiling, I really do. Oden's highest ceiling coming out of college, in my opinion, was Nate Thurmond.

[smauss]

I see Hakeem as Embiid's absolutely highest ceiling, I really do. Oden's highest ceiling coming out of college, in my opinion, was Nate Thurmond.

That's a big slam on Nate! Nate not only a fantastic defender, one of the best of all time, but could really score if needed. The teams they had (Rick Barry in particular) didn't need him to score as much. During his prime years in SFW&GSW he was close to a 20/17 guy. Chamberlain & Jabbar said Thurmond was they're most difficult adversary. He was one of my fav's as a boy. I just loved his no-nonsense style on both ends. Oden was not nearly as fluid and tenacious as Nate IMHO.

[Bernman]

It was a slam of Oden, if anything.

Thurmond was a mundane shot blocker when the NBA started charting that stat. He also had a horrible ts%.

Meanwhile, even after microfracture surgery, Oden was posting per 36 stats 16.7 pts (64.7 ts%), 12.8 rebs, 3.4 blks, and 1.4 asts. Those are huge #'s for a center in this day and age. He had the best Roland Rating on that strong Portland team, and it was equivalent to Duncan's, better than Nash's that year. This in his 2nd season of play, and once again after microfracture surgery. He was looking the stud he was predicted to be by the majority.

I think people just want to unjustly discredit Oden out of some pro or anti-Embiid agenda (works both ways). Or they want to sound smart by criticizing PDX w/ their 20/20 hindsight, and boast about how they thought Durant was better and they were right. If you thought Durant was better, you weren't really wrong, because Oden couldn't have possibly turned out much better than Durant is. Durant has become a beast. But the majority who liked Oden more weren't really proven wrong either, because Oden was performing really well even after a major knee injury, and those injuries eventually robbed him of a career to compare alongside Durant's. Some players just suffer thru a career of injuries because of one wrong landing to start it off. Durant's bony legs could have snapped like Livingston's or Bender's.

[Licensed to Il]

I'm definitely pro-Embiid, but this is not true. Embiid is a more fluid athlete than Oden was coming out of school. But Oden had a very good array of post moves and back to the basket scoring ability.

From a pure talent standpoint, he was the best big to come out since Tim Duncan at the time. He had tremendous potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/greg-oden

Weaknesses: Offensively Oden isnt very polished with his back to the basket Nor does he possess a big assortment of moves Needs to expand his shooting range, as of right now Oden is very uncomfortable facing the basket

http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz34B67Z227

Despite his ability to get position, Oden will often get a little too aggressive with his footwork or put himself a little out of position, leading to misses and turnovers. While 47% from the post isn’t a bad percentage, it is the one area where Oden stands to improve the most over time. He lacks the fluidity, counter-moves and improvisation skills that can make him great, but he’s still able to do some of the things that he did in the NCAA for stretches –albeit only against certain defenders. After spending virtually all of last offseason rehabbing, it will be interesting to see if Oden takes this summer to develop a go-to-move.

I actually agree with Ron Swanson here. Obviously we could retroactively find articles to support almost any viewpoint. But the overall feeling at the time, was that Oden was a healthy, high character, two way star. In retrospect, maybe none of those came to fruition. Life is weird that way.

[sidney lanier]

I see Hakeem as Embiid's absolutely highest ceiling, I really do. Oden's highest ceiling coming out of college, in my opinion, was Nate Thurmond.

That's a big slam on Nate! Nate not only a fantastic defender, one of the best of all time, but could really score if needed. The teams they had (Rick Barry in particular) didn't need him to score as much. During his prime years in SFW&GSW he was close to a 20/17 guy. Chamberlain & Jabbar said Thurmond was they're most difficult adversary. He was one of my fav's as a boy. I just loved his no-nonsense style on both ends. Oden was not nearly as fluid and tenacious as Nate IMHO.

I always liked Nate, too. Just solid on both ends and a smart, efficient, agile, powerful player. And also the first to record a quadruple double.

[smauss]

It was a slam of Oden, if anything.

Thurmond was a mundane shot blocker when the NBA started charting that stat. He also had a horrible ts%.

Meanwhile, even after microfracture surgery, Oden was posting per 36 stats 16.7 pts (64.7 ts%), 12.8 rebs, 3.4 blks, and 1.4 asts. Those are huge #'s for a center in this day and age. He had the best Roland Rating on that strong Portland team, and it was equivalent to Duncan's, better than Nash's that year. This in his 2nd season of play, and once again after microfracture surgery. He was looking the stud he was predicted to be by the majority.

I think people just want to unjustly discredit Oden out of some pro or anti-Embiid agenda (works both ways). Or they want to sound smart by criticizing PDX w/ their 20/20 hindsight, and boast about how they thought Durant was better and they were right. If you thought Durant was better, you weren't really wrong, because Oden couldn't have possibly turned out much better than Durant is. Durant has become a beast. But the majority who liked Oden more weren't really proven wrong either, because Oden was performing really well even after a major knee injury, and those injuries eventually robbed him of a career to compare alongside Durant's. Some players just suffer thru a career of injuries because of one wrong landing to start it off. Durant's bony legs could have snapped like Livingston's or Bender's.

Bern, I totally disagree with you about Nate. Assuming your shot blocking comment is accurate, it certainly doesn't take into account alters and his defensive presence. He was a monster on the defensive end. That's not even debated, what is however, is his ability to score if need be. I will say, he wasn't as efficient, I think somewhere around 43% or so if memory serves. But he was only known for his defense and that was my point. I'm not bashing Oden, just sticking up for a guy that never got the accolades he deserved IMHO. I also don't blame the pick, unless they missed some previous injury or chronic problem that they should have found out, which I don't know about. Draft picks are a crap shoot, we try all we can to get the clearest picture of the kid but it even if we get all those things right, some freak injury could mean a wasted pick. We will never know what kind of career Oden would have had, but if he would have progressed to be as good as Nate Thurmond was Portland would have been contenders.

[jakecronus8]

Youre' Hammond...you know Wiggins is going 1st. CLE has outright told you so. You find out that, if you take Embiid, the Sixers will definitely take Parker #3. The Magic call you up and offer you Tobias and #4 for the #2 as they want Embiid. Would you do it?

How about 2, 31, 36 for 4, 12 and Tobes?

All day, but I have Exum as the #2 prospect so many might disagree. I also think Tobes is so similar to Parker.

Exum
12 (Stauskas?)
Giannis
Tobes
Sanders
Middleton
Henson
Wolters
Knight

With a great shot at a top 5 pick next year is a damn good start to a new era.

[engelmartin]

After watching Lebron last night, I'm definitely leaning toward Jabari now. He's definitely closer to a Carmelo/Lebron than Wiggins is, and Jabari is just that physical and instinctual. All the limited upside stuff is still there, but the Pierce/Robinson comparisons are off considering he's that much bigger at 6 "9. Of course, tanking another year with Wiggins might get us a better third piece before the rest of the league will really take us serious. Hopefully Cleveland leaves us Embiid.

[Ill-yasova]

I actually agree with Ron Swanson here. Obviously we could retroactively find articles to support almost any viewpoint. But the overall feeling at the time, was that Oden was a healthy, high character, two way star. In retrospect, maybe none of those came to fruition. Life is weird that way.

I totally agree that he would have been a two way star. He probably would have averaged 18-21 ppg just on physical ability alone. My only point was that he didn't have a very good offensive skill set and never looked very likely to develop one. He was a little robotic with his back to the basket, there wasn't much fluidity in his post game.

[breakchains]

Youre' Hammond...you know Wiggins is going 1st. CLE has outright told you so. You find out that, if you take Embiid, the Sixers will definitely take Parker #3. The Magic call you up and offer you Tobias and #4 for the #2 as they want Embiid. Would you do it?

How about 2, 31, 36 for 4, 12 and Tobes?

Hell no. You laugh at Cleveland and take Embiid.

[AussieBuck]

Oden would have rag dolled Howard if he'd stayed healthy. He was absurdly powerful.

[breakchains]

I'm not concerned about position fit so much, as positions are becoming more irrelevant every year, but style of play. I just think Parker and Giannis are too similar. If Parker played more of a stretch forward (which he could potentially do and excel at) it wouldn't be bad, but seems like a waste.

[Serge28]

I see Hakeem as Embiid's absolutely highest ceiling, I really do. Oden's highest ceiling coming out of college, in my opinion, was Nate Thurmond.

That's a big slam on Nate! Nate not only a fantastic defender, one of the best of all time, but could really score if needed. The teams they had (Rick Barry in particular) didn't need him to score as much. During his prime years in SFW&GSW he was close to a 20/17 guy. Chamberlain & Jabbar said Thurmond was they're most difficult adversary. He was one of my fav's as a boy. I just loved his no-nonsense style on both ends. Oden was not nearly as fluid and tenacious as Nate IMHO.

I don't think it is a big slam on Nate. I have the utmost respect for Thurmond and the kind of career he put together. You're right, Oden was not nearly as fluid and tenacious as prime Nate, but then again we never got to see prime Oden. We never got to see him properly develop into the kind of player most envisioned him becoming when Portland chose him #1 over Durant. While Nate isn't a perfect comparison by any means, I do still think that, if not for injuries, Oden's player trajectory would have been more similar to Nate than say, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Walton, Hakeem, Admiral, Ewing, Zo, Dikembe, etc. I struggled coming up with a proper comparison and thought Thurmond as a ceiling was fairly realistic.

[Bucks_MacGyver]

I wish I can fast forward 3 years so I can show embiid was a mistake. I'm tired of this

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[Serge28]

It was a slam of Oden, if anything.

Thurmond was a mundane shot blocker when the NBA started charting that stat. He also had a horrible ts%.

Meanwhile, even after microfracture surgery, Oden was posting per 36 stats 16.7 pts (64.7 ts%), 12.8 rebs, 3.4 blks, and 1.4 asts. Those are huge #'s for a center in this day and age. He had the best Roland Rating on that strong Portland team, and it was equivalent to Duncan's, better than Nash's that year. This in his 2nd season of play, and once again after microfracture surgery. He was looking the stud he was predicted to be by the majority.

I think people just want to unjustly discredit Oden out of some pro or anti-Embiid agenda (works both ways). Or they want to sound smart by criticizing PDX w/ their 20/20 hindsight, and boast about how they thought Durant was better and they were right. If you thought Durant was better, you weren't really wrong, because Oden couldn't have possibly turned out much better than Durant is. Durant has become a beast. But the majority who liked Oden more weren't really proven wrong either, because Oden was performing really well even after a major knee injury, and those injuries eventually robbed him of a career to compare alongside Durant's. Some players just suffer thru a career of injuries because of one wrong landing to start it off. Durant's bony legs could have snapped like Livingston's or Bender's.

You're criminally underrating Thurmond here. The guy was extremely powerful and only played at his seemingly low weight because he had to. The pace of the era was absolutely insane. Your comment as to his shotblocking is also inaccurate. He was a great shotblocker. He was born on July 25th, 1941. The first year they recorded blocks was 73-74. That puts him at 33 at season's end. He averaged 2.9 blocks that season. 2.4 next season. Then never played more than 20 minutes a game. Still, in his last season (76-77), he averaged 1.7 blocks in only 20.3 minutes. "Mundane" shotblocker? Come on now!

Thurmond's focus always on the defensive end of the court - similar to how Oden's impact was projected around the draft = mostly defensively, at least at first. Let's also not forget that, unlike now, Thurmond played in an era of great centers: Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Gilmore, Bellamy. There were also fewer teams in the league back then and you had to play these monsters more than once or twice a season like you do now. Oden would have had to slim way down to play in the 60s/70s and it actually might have saved his career. Who knows?

[Serge28]

I wish I can fast forward 3 years so I can show embiid was a mistake. I'm tired of this

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Right, like any of this is an exact science. You're acting like only your opinion is the right one, like anyone who disagrees with you must be out of his mind. You're "tired of this." Give me a freaking break!