Noah Vonleh Thread [Merged]

[rcklsscognition]

The issue with BPA vs. Fit drafting is you cannot discount it uniformly. If you are looking at a set of prospects who are all fairly equal, there is nothing wrong drafting for fit. When I look at this draft, from positions 4-12, I see a lot of similarly talented players. There is no clear BPA between 4 and 12, so we should draft based on need. With that said, I would not draft Vonleh, because I think we might be good with KOQ.

[Melvinlocker]

Everyone knows Orlando's top two needs are PG and PF.

My dream scenario is for Orlando to draft Exum or Smart at #4 and work a deal with AA + #12 to move up and grab Vonleh or Randle.

However, it is difficult to build a mock draft which incorporates unannounced trades and those quickly become even more unrealistic than the original mock draft. So considering the PGs expected to be available at #12 are far more exciting than the PFs in that range, this suggestion from Ford makes perfect sense. It doesn't mean this is what will happen, but there is logic to it.

This is what I want for our team a year from now:

Exum / Smart, Nelson
Dipo, ____
2015 Free Agent, Harkless
Vonleh / Randle, Harris
Vuc, O'quinn

Some interesting names to target at SF in 2015 include:
Kawhi Leonard (no chance they let him go)
Kenneth Faried
Jeff Green
Draymond Green

Don't forget DeMarre Carroll. Dude is a work horse and tore it up for Atl this year.

[RookieStar]

I'm gonna vomit if we use #4 for Noah

Why?? Look at all the mocks, most of Vonleh at 5 and Randle at 6 or 7. Why do most of you act like taking either 1-2 spots higher then they are slated, is such a big reach? Most of you act like we're taking a player 10 spots higher. Quit crying and be mad at the Cavs for fu**ing things up by winning the lotto and pushing us down to 4. We did all we could do to get a top 3 pick, and the Cavs fu**ed it all up. So unless one of the big 3 fall to us at 4, quit crying about getting Vonleh or Randle. I honestly prefer both over Exum and Smart.

Not me. Unless Exum is all hype and no substance, then I would go with Smart. Noah is in the 6-9 range in terms of picks. Being in the top-5 means you do swing for the fences.

[Melvinlocker]

Those are opinions not facts. Here are some facts:

His opponent counterpart PER at SF was 10.2 at PF it was 19.6.
His Net Production at SF was +3.9 and at PF it was -1.4

http://www.82games.com/1314/13ORL9.HTM

Those numbers indicate exactly the opposite of what your statement pontificates. Also, the center is not the only position a shot blocker can reside- you know there are rim protecting PF 's.

Harris is a forward not a tweener - meaning he can play both roles depending on what the game situation requires. The NBA trend is to play small at PF, he has the ability to do that (and is where he is better offensively) but he is much more effective defensively at SF.

I agree Harris could be a great 6th man, but not because he can't be a solid starter at SF - but because hopefully the Magic will be deep enough to have that luxury ...which we just might after this draft.

There is a fine line between ignorance and denial and you appear to have one foot on each side of it.

I don't really have a dog in this fight other than I like the Magic and I think Tobias is still young and can be molded. I would like to point out that Tobias protected the rim well for a combo forward at about 53 percent which is about league average and above average for his position SF (semi important skill for a tweener but not necessary to be effective). Anyways, just wanted to point out that a lot of Tobias's counting stats are pretty good outside of Steals and blocks.

He still needs to not get caught lagging on the weak side and improve his jumper, but other than that, I can't complain about this 21 year old too much to say he won't do something significant for this team when we are winning (obviously barring a trade).

[MagicFan101]

Those are opinions not facts. Here are some facts:

His opponent counterpart PER at SF was 10.2 at PF it was 19.6.
His Net Production at SF was +3.9 and at PF it was -1.4

http://www.82games.com/1314/13ORL9.HTM

Those numbers indicate exactly the opposite of what your statement pontificates. Also, the center is not the only position a shot blocker can reside- you know there are rim protecting PF 's.

Harris is a forward not a tweener - meaning he can play both roles depending on what the game situation requires. The NBA trend is to play small at PF, he has the ability to do that (and is where he is better offensively) but he is much more effective defensively at SF.

I agree Harris could be a great 6th man, but not because he can't be a solid starter at SF - but because hopefully the Magic will be deep enough to have that luxury ...which we just might after this draft.

There is a fine line between ignorance and denial and you appear to have one foot on each side of it.

do you have trouble reading? there are the numbers - educate yourself

... and what cute numbers they are. Did you know that there is a correlation between marriage rates and suicides? Did you know that there is a correlation between sour cream consumption and motor cycle accidents?

... numbers very much do lie when the analyst makes too many assumptions about the link between correlation and causation. In this case, you are blindly accepting a metric which by design neglects every single key aspect to a player's development in favor of a box score from a tanking season.

When you finish your PhD in mathematics come talk to me. I can share some of my publications with you.

[tiderulz]

I'm not sure what the word "fact" means to you but the fact is that Harris is a tweener forward who's complete lack of defensive ability, especially away from the basket, means his long term place in this league is at the PF position.

If we still had Dwight Howard at C, Harris could be a nice option as the starting PF but Vuc isn't a strong shot blocker which means Harris is better suited for the 6th man role here.

sorry, I have to disagree with you too. The only reason people consider Harris a "tweener" was because he put the team first and played out of position at PF when the staff asked him, last year when Baby was hurt and this year when Vuc was hurt and Baby played center. He never should have done it, then people wouldnt think he was this "tweener". And he plays defense better than people give him credit for.

[MagicFan101]

I'm not sure what the word "fact" means to you but the fact is that Harris is a tweener forward who's complete lack of defensive ability, especially away from the basket, means his long term place in this league is at the PF position.

If we still had Dwight Howard at C, Harris could be a nice option as the starting PF but Vuc isn't a strong shot blocker which means Harris is better suited for the 6th man role here.

sorry, u have to disagree with you too. The only reason people consider Harris a "tweener" was because he put the team first and played out of position at PF when the staff asked him, last year when Baby was hurt and this year when Vuc was hurt and Baby played center. He never should have done it, then people wouldnt think he was this "tweener". And he plays defense better than people give him credit for.

The league is being taken over by PGs and SFs. Defense matters.

You are free to disagree with me on this just as you are free to disagree with my claim that the suns rises in the east. That doesn't mean either argument has any place in a rational discussion.

Currently in the east we have Lebron, Melo and George to contend with if and when we set our sights on being competitive in the playoffs. No one can shut down these players, but Harris can't be our answer to them at SF. He just can't. He is a 6th man on a competitive team. In the absolute perfect system, he could be a starting PF but we don't have the roster for that.

[tiderulz]

I'm not sure what the word "fact" means to you but the fact is that Harris is a tweener forward who's complete lack of defensive ability, especially away from the basket, means his long term place in this league is at the PF position.

If we still had Dwight Howard at C, Harris could be a nice option as the starting PF but Vuc isn't a strong shot blocker which means Harris is better suited for the 6th man role here.

sorry, u have to disagree with you too. The only reason people consider Harris a "tweener" was because he put the team first and played out of position at PF when the staff asked him, last year when Baby was hurt and this year when Vuc was hurt and Baby played center. He never should have done it, then people wouldnt think he was this "tweener". And he plays defense better than people give him credit for.

The league is being taken over by PGs and SFs. Defense matters.

You are free to disagree with me on this just as you are free to disagree with my claim that the suns rises in the east. That doesn't mean either argument has any place in a rational discussion.

Currently in the east we have Lebron, Melo and George to contend with if and when we set our sights on being competitive in the playoffs. No one can shut down these players, but Harris can't be our answer to them at SF. He just can't. He is a 6th man on a competitive team. In the absolute perfect system, he could be a starting PF but we don't have the roster for that.

not every team has Lebron. And no one else has anyone that can contain Lebron either.

[Howard Mass]

It's just a RUMOR.

I prefer a point guard or one of the big 3 at #4 and then an hoping The Magic might be able to move up a tad from #12 to get a big.

[Bensational]

how would taking Vonleh impact the rest of the draft?

Cavs - Embiid
Bucks - Exum/Parker/Wiggins
76ers - Exum/Parker/Wiggins
Magic - Vonleh
Jazz - Exum/Parker/Wiggins
Boston - Smart/Randle
Lakers - Smart/Randle
Kings -


If taking Vonleh meant that Smart could potentially slide far enough to, say, the Kings or Cats, I might be persuaded to take the punt and go for a AA + 12 swap for Smart.

but what would Vonleh's role be? i can't help but imagine him as a really good role player, and i don't think that's what you go for with a #4 pick. even if he becomes our best front court player and eventual #1/#2 star, how does that impact the rest of the roster? would essentially make Vuc a role player, with Harris/Dipo being a toss up for our best wing scoring option.

[Skin]

So gullible.

[basketballRob]

Maybe the 76ers will take Vonleh.

http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2014 ... onleh.html

[Skin]

Magic's top need right now is PF being they do have Meer ....

I couldn't stop laughing.

Yes! We don't have a need at PG because of Jameer!

Vonleh sucks dude. He's the Hasheem Thabeet of this year's draft and ya'll are eating it up.

[MagicFan101]

not every team has Lebron. And no one else has anyone that can contain Lebron either.

So we shouldn't try to defend him at all?

Also, I mentioned more than Lebron. Just in the east we have the very talented Paul George and Carmelo Anthony. In the west Kevin Durant should be making regular finals appearances. Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins are two promising young names coming in as well.

The league is no longer dominated by SGs like MJ and Kobe or big men like Shaq and Hakeem. Ultra athletic PGs like Westbrook, Curry, Lillard, Wall and Irving along with super elite stars at SF are the new norm.

Dipo (and maybe Marcus Smart) are nice answers defensively to those guards but if we are building a team to be competitive against the best in the league we need an answer to those SFs because those are the guys we will see in the playoffs.

Our star power could come in another position (perhaps Exum?) but someone at least needs to be there defensively to make life a little tougher for those SFs. Wiggins is the only guy in this draft class who might fill that role but he isn't falling to us. Hence I am picking SF as the spot to target in 2015 free agency.

[Nyce_1]

@ryenarussillo: Talked to two GM's today that couldn't believe how out of shape Vonleh was at workouts. They were really annoyed.

[jazzfan1971]

vonleh out of shape?

Sounds a bit like a smokescreen to me. He sure didn't look out of shape in a recent shooting and dunkkng video.

[KillMonger]

I've been saying for a while now that i wouldn't be surprised if we went that way......To me there isn't really a SURE thing at #4 imo......Vonleh+Payton would be a very good draft imo.....There have been reports that have said Vonleh looked very impressive in workouts so i'm not sure where the "out of shape" is coming from, hell might be true what do i know. All i'm saying is don't be surprised, Henny seems to have a thing for prospects with long wingspans

[MagicFan101]

A few SI linked reports;...if Henny knows he can trade up, somehow, to get Smart, this may not be a bad move ?
I had been thinking, all along, that Smart will be our pick at #4, but I guess Henny could get both?? I would think that picking Vonleh at 4 is very risky if he wants Smart.

This is perfectly fine with me.

Exum or Smart + Vonleh or Randle would be a dream draft for me. I don't care who goes at #4 vs. who comes from trading up.

On the other hand, walking away with Vonleh + Payton, as Chad Ford suggested, would not make me very happy.

[T12]

some of you people have lost it trying to 'fill needs', we are one of the **** teams in the NBA second year running...we need talent more then anything. we dont need PF's we dont need PG's we dont need SG's what we need is some players that are going to get us back to the playoffs...period.

in terms of Vonleh, he could become the next jordan for all i care...the dude has everything going for him off the court and much less going for him on the court. you can tell me about his hands all you want, go watch IU games...he was timid early in the season, he struggled with his assignments in games, he played like a guy who needs time to learn the game, just didnt stand out at all. the dude failed the eye test.

This is not the guy i want to burn the 4th pick on in a loaded draft.

[bigdogdylan5]

The absolute rage in this thread is hilarious over a guy who most of you are destroying and one your are crying over not getting. Both of which many of you have never seen play, most of the comments on why you hate Vonleh are so stupid. Do you guys know who has seen these guys play?? Rob has and he will make the best pick he can and i wont question it. Neither should u guys cause most of you are talking out of your ass anyways