NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 2

[FAH1223]

The Miami Heat versus the San Antonio Spurs is basically Al Pacino’s Any Given Sunday speech given form; it is basketball at the very highest level. Dating from the 2011-12 season, up to and including last night’s Game 2, the Heat and the Spurs have played 14 games. In those 14 games, the Heat have scored a total of 1,385 points and the Spurs have scored 1,386 points. That — in the most simplistic, reductive of terms — is the minuscule margin between these two teams over the past three full seasons. One point. Between the borders of that single point, any one of the nearly infinite number of pixel variables that make up the picture of an NBA game takes on a weight so precise that the bounce of the ball can be the breeze that tips the scales.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-f ... rs-game-2/

[DCZards]

The Heat were trailing by 2 pts. with 4 minutes left when Lebron exited game 1 with the cramps. So please don't tell me that his absence--including his great D--wouldn't have had an impact on the outcome of the game or the Spurs ability to score. You can't possibly believe that.

The Spurs have beaten the Heat with LeBron on the floor before, why is that hard to believe?

They were already on a 15-6 run with him in the game.

It's not hard at all to believe that the Spurs can beat the Heat with Lebron on the floor. What's hard to believe is that you think Lebron's presence would have had little or no impact on the outcome of the game. I happen to believe that the Heat are a MUCH better team with Lebron on the court...regardless of who the opponent is.

[dandridge 10]

Agreed. The Parker and Duncan missed free throws were huge and probably cost the Spurs the game.

I wish the refs would call LeBron at least one time for using his forearm to gain an advantage. Dude constantly pushes people off driving to the basket or fighting for a rebound using his off arm. Yet, if Leonard touches him, its a foul.

No one gets fouled more than Lebron without getting the call. Similar to Shaq, Lebron is so big and strong that the refs often ignore the contact because it rarely slows Lebron down.

I guess I see it differently than you. Seems to me that the refs have willingly given out fouls to Leonard so far this finals. Yet, Lebron has not been called for a single offensive foul for clearing people out with his off-arm. The only non-call that I can recall that should have went LeBron's way last night was on a dunk when someone grazed across his arm and it did not affect the dunk at all. I vividly remember at least two plays where Lebron pushed Leonard out of the way for an offensive rebound, both resulting in a basket for LeBron.

Regarding Shaq, he also should have been called for a lot more offensive fouls as well as he tended to bull people over with his shoulder or use his off-arm to gain an advantage.

And you are right in one respect....both LeBron and Shaq are so big and strong that incidental contact rarely slows them down. That is why I have less problem with them not getting some touch fouls. The fouls don't affect the outcome. On the other hand, when the refs allow someone that big and strong like LeBron or Shaq to also bull over people or use their off hand to push people away, it does affect the outcome. Its virtually impossible to stop them when they are allowed to do that.

[Youheardme90]

Agreed. The Parker and Duncan missed free throws were huge and probably cost the Spurs the game.

I wish the refs would call LeBron at least one time for using his forearm to gain an advantage. Dude constantly pushes people off driving to the basket or fighting for a rebound using his off arm. Yet, if Leonard touches him, its a foul.

No one gets fouled more than Lebron without getting the call. Similar to Shaq, Lebron is so big and strong that the refs often ignore the contact because it rarely slows Lebron down.

I guess I see it differently than you. Seems to me that the refs have willingly given out fouls to Leonard so far this finals. Yet, Lebron has not been called for a single offensive foul for clearing people out with his off-arm. The only non-call that I can recall that should have went LeBron's way last night was on a dunk when someone grazed across his arm and it did not affect the dunk at all. I vividly remember at least two plays where Lebron pushed Leonard out of the way for an offensive rebound, both resulting in a basket for LeBron.

Regarding Shaq, he also should have been called for a lot more offensive fouls as well as he tended to bull people over with his shoulder or use his off-arm to gain an advantage.

And you are right in one respect....both LeBron and Shaq are so big and strong that incidental contact rarely slows them down. That is why I have less problem with them not getting some touch fouls. The fouls don't affect the outcome. On the other hand, when the refs allow someone that big and strong like LeBron or Shaq to also bull over people or use their off hand to push people away, it does affect the outcome. Its virtually impossible to stop them when they are allowed to do that.

It`s funny how you say "incendental contact". Contact is contact whether it`s incidental or not.

[montestewart]

It`s funny how you say "incendental contact". Contact is contact whether it`s incidental or not.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

LeBron scores 35 and is unstoppable and the Spurs only lose because of missed free throws by Parker and Duncan in succession in the 4th quarter

Leonard has no rhythm because of foul trouble and Green was in foul trouble too.

Spurs perimeter defense goes to hell with Belinelli out there.

I think SA wins one in MIA

Agreed. The Parker and Duncan missed free throws were huge and probably cost the Spurs the game.

I wish the refs would call LeBron at least one time for using his forearm to gain an advantage. Dude constantly pushes people off driving to the basket or fighting for a rebound using his off arm. Yet, if Leonard touches him, its a foul.

Agreed.

I think the refs took the game once SA went up 11. Ginobili's and Leonard's dubious foul trouble cost SA. Offense of Manu and the defense Kawhi were both affected by referee judgment calls, not Miami.

Lebron got away with becoming a human bowling ball. He pushed off at least a half a dozen times with no call. Wade did a lot of sneaky stuff that refs let go.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

LeBron scores 35 and is unstoppable and the Spurs only lose because of missed free throws by Parker and Duncan in succession in the 4th quarter

Leonard has no rhythm because of foul trouble and Green was in foul trouble too.

Spurs perimeter defense goes to hell with Belinelli out there.

I think SA wins one in MIA

Spurs might win one in Miami but they ain't winning the series. Last night, Lebron showed once again that when the Heat are in a must win situation, he puts on his cape and does what it takes to put his team over the top.

Still, Miami needed an awful flop call on Wade's great/terrible acting job. Even with the 2 days off, you could see SA's veterans were tired down the stretch - just like last year as the series wore on. I get the feeling, the longer the series wears on, the better off Miami will be. If I'm SA, I use Mills more than the 11 and 15 minutes he's gotten so far - just for some extra energy and speed - and take some of the pressure/onus off of Parker.

Agreed.

Popovich needs to goon it up in Miami. If I were coaching SA I would show the Spurs players endless loops of video of them being dropped by punches to the face, elbows, shoves in the back, etc. And next game I would play deep bench goons to intentionally foul Wade and Chalmers hard, repeatedly.

Lebron is too good and athletically honest of a star to be played thst way. But Wade and Mario Chalmers need to be put on notice that what goes around comes around.

Miami played dirty and was rewarded. They hurt Parker on purpose and Wade tried to hurt Duncan. The first dirty play Miami makes needs to be retaliated. The Spurs can't beat the refs or the Cheat, but I will be happy if somebody puts Wade on his flopping, dirty, arse.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Agreed. The Parker and Duncan missed free throws were huge and probably cost the Spurs the game.

I wish the refs would call LeBron at least one time for using his forearm to gain an advantage. Dude constantly pushes people off driving to the basket or fighting for a rebound using his off arm. Yet, if Leonard touches him, its a foul.

No one gets fouled more than Lebron without getting the call. Similar to Shaq, Lebron is so big and strong that the refs often ignore the contact because it rarely slows Lebron down.

I guess I see it differently than you. Seems to me that the refs have willingly given out fouls to Leonard so far this finals. Yet, Lebron has not been called for a single offensive foul for clearing people out with his off-arm. The only non-call that I can recall that should have went LeBron's way last night was on a dunk when someone grazed across his arm and it did not affect the dunk at all. I vividly remember at least two plays where Lebron pushed Leonard out of the way for an offensive rebound, both resulting in a basket for LeBron.

Regarding Shaq, he also should have been called for a lot more offensive fouls as well as he tended to bull people over with his shoulder or use his off-arm to gain an advantage.

And you are right in one respect....both LeBron and Shaq are so big and strong that incidental contact rarely slows them down. That is why I have less problem with them not getting some touch fouls. The fouls don't affect the outcome. On the other hand, when the refs allow someone that big and strong like LeBron or Shaq to also bull over people or use their off hand to push people away, it does affect the outcome. Its virtually impossible to stop them when they are allowed to do that.

Agreed on the refs.

Quite simply follow the money. The NBA office and refs knew Miami couldn't go down 0-2. Less games less money. So the refs enabled Miami to extend the series. They will cheat for San Antonio if the money is on that side.

In game two just watch how they cooled Ginobili after a flop, and they let him get hit in the face with no call. Manu turned it over right then. Leonard not being allowed to even run parallel to James when he already had four fouls help the Heat. Everything changed when Miami went gangster with impunity from the refs.

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[dandridge 10]

It`s funny how you say "incendental contact". Contact is contact whether it`s incidental or not.

I never said incidental contact could not be called a foul. Technically, yes, it is a foul. However, if the refs called every minor contact during a game, then the game would come to a complete standstill. A foul could be called virtually every play in the NBA. My point is that I have a greater problem with refs swallowing their whistle when doing so has no impact on the result than when the refs swallow their whistle when there is clearly an impact.

[Ruzious]

Spurs might win one in Miami but they ain't winning the series. Last night, Lebron showed once again that when the Heat are in a must win situation, he puts on his cape and does what it takes to put his team over the top.

Still, Miami needed an awful flop call on Wade's great/terrible acting job. Even with the 2 days off, you could see SA's veterans were tired down the stretch - just like last year as the series wore on. I get the feeling, the longer the series wears on, the better off Miami will be. If I'm SA, I use Mills more than the 11 and 15 minutes he's gotten so far - just for some extra energy and speed - and take some of the pressure/onus off of Parker.

Agreed.

Popovich needs to goon it up in Miami. If I were coaching SA I would show the Spurs players endless loops of video of them being dropped by punches to the face, elbows, shoves in the back, etc. And next game I would play deep bench goons to intentionally foul Wade and Chalmers hard, repeatedly.

Lebron is too good and athletically honest of a star to be played thst way. But Wade and Mario Chalmers need to be put on notice that what goes around comes around.

Miami played dirty and was rewarded. They hurt Parker on purpose and Wade tried to hurt Duncan. The first dirty play Miami makes needs to be retaliated. The Spurs can't beat thr refs or the Cheat, but I will be happy if somebody puts Wade on his flopping, dirty, arse.

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Notice Battier didn't even play in game 2. Is that because he plays too cleanly, or maybe because Rashard Lewis got 10 years younger?

[OffTheWall2]

LOL at the idea of the Spurs "gooning it up". I would absolutely love to see the soft european built Spurs "goon" it up.

As if this idea hasn't been tried before with this Heat team anyway. You realize the man who built this team is very familiar with the idea of "gooning it up" don't you CCJ?

In a battle of goons, Miami wins every time.

LOL at Miami hurting players on purpose, lest we forget the A/C shut down in Game 1? If Miami is hurting players on purpose, then San Antonio purposely tried to hurt players by creating extreme conditions for Game 1. /green font as both suggestions are just as absurd.

[DCZards]

Miami plays tough, in-your-face east coast/eastern conference basketball. If the Heat are doing something illegal let the refs call it, just like they did when they called a flagrant on Chalmers for elbowing Parker...which was the right call.

But I don't want or expect the Heat to play "soft." It's not "goon ball"...it's the playoffs and hard fouls and physical play are to be expected.

[Ruzious]

Miami plays tough, in-your-face east coast/eastern conference basketball. If the Heat are doing something illegal let the refs call it, just like they did when they called a flagrant on Chalmers for elbowing Parker...which was the right call.

But I don't want or expect the Heat to play "soft." It's not "goon ball"...it's the playoffs and hard fouls and physical play are to be expected.

Because we live in an era where everything is seen and replayed ad infinitum, there is only so much of those garbage plays Miami can pull, such as the horrible Wade flop. They know there will be a public outcry at some point, so they have to pick and choose their spots. So thanks to modern technology, I expect the rest of the series to be much cleaner... at least till game 7.

[dobrojim]

LOL @ NBA for fining Wade a whole $5000 for flopping like that is a meaningful amount to him.

If they were serious, a clear cut flop would merit a suspension for the next game.

re incidental contact - you just want it to be called as evenly as possible.
What's a foul at one end has to be a foul at the other.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Even Miami fans know the Heat cheated to win the damn game.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

LOL at the idea of the Spurs "gooning it up". I would absolutely love to see the soft european built Spurs "goon" it up.

As if this idea hasn't been tried before with this Heat team anyway. You realize the man who built this team is very familiar with the idea of "gooning it up" don't you CCJ?

In a battle of goons, Miami wins every time.

LOL at Miami hurting players on purpose, lest we forget the A/C shut down in Game 1? If Miami is hurting players on purpose, then San Antonio purposely tried to hurt players by creating extreme conditions for Game 1. /green font as both suggestions are just as absurd.

The heat in game one affected everyone, even paying customers.

The Spurs got off to a great start and then Miami started throwing them around. Only Ginobili and Leonard had foul trouble. I didn't say hurt anybody. Just pay back flopping, dirty Wade and goon Chalmers. Lebron played like he should always play. Just let refs call his pushing off.

Bosh was fantastic in game two by the way.

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[TGW]

LOL @ NBA for fining Wade a whole $5000 for flopping like that is a meaningful amount to him.

If they were serious, a clear cut flop would merit a suspension for the next game.

re incidental contact - you just want it to be called as evenly as possible.
What's a foul at one end has to be a foul at the other.

I think the embarrassment stings more than the fine. I doubt Wade does the acting anymore.

[FAH1223]

Wow at the clinic the Spurs put on in the first half. Miami played soft defense and didn't show up either.

2nd half was more even but the Spurs went off like that at the end of Game 1 as well.

You can't stop them if they're cutting and passing like that.

[dobrojim]

LOL @ NBA for fining Wade a whole $5000 for flopping like that is a meaningful amount to him.

If they were serious, a clear cut flop would merit a suspension for the next game.

re incidental contact - you just want it to be called as evenly as possible.
What's a foul at one end has to be a foul at the other.

I think the embarrassment stings more than the fine. I doubt Wade does the acting anymore.

time will tell but I tend to disagree. If MIA ends up winning, there will be no asterisk
with a footnote about flopping. All that matters is who wins. If a player/team thinks
flopping will aid them in the quest for victory, they'll flop. A $5000 fine is no deterrence
whatsoever. The stakes are WAY higher than that.

ps - go Spurs. I was somewhat nervous. Started watching when the Spurs already had 48 pts
with 8 min to play in the 2ndQ. Even though they expanded the lead, they were bound to cool
off which they did. The question now is can MIA win 3/4 of the next games.

[Ruzious]

Leonard and Green were better than HOFers Lebron, Wade, and Allen - by a lot. I'm not sure basketball can be played much better than Leonard and Green played it - at both ends of the court.