The Big Gamble on Lance Stephenson

[ImHeisenberg]

You guys are good reading.

Lance is like a dime at the bar, except you know she has an STD and you don't use condoms. People keep telling you that you'll regret it, but the beer goggles and low light make it too tempting for you to use your better judgment.

[sfballa13]

Id rather we spend the money that could be used to lure Lance to bring in Lowry

[Lionlifer]

You guys are good reading.

Lance is like a dime at the bar, except you know she has an STD and you don't use condoms. People keep telling you that you'll regret it, but the beer goggles and low light make it too tempting for you to use your better judgment.

But maybe it's only gonorrhea, and all he needs is a shot of penicillin.

In this case SVG is the penicillin.

Or maybe Lance has the herp, in which case he's a lost cause, who knows

[Redeemed]

"1 - The fact is yes, team mates fight more often than we might think. You can't put competitive people into a "practice" situation and tell them to not go all out - the difference being that they're MORE likely to fight a team mate in practice due to a lot of different factors.
"

Fine. Name 1 other player that has gotten into fights with 2 separate teammates in the same season.

Bill Laimbeer
Isiah Thomas
Rick Mahorn
and the other Bad Boys

Those guys fought multiple times a season on the practice court. They were hyper competitive, but they were crazy close knit. They fought but they were down for each other and the cause (winning a 'ship) in a bad way.

Lance appears (from my fan-of-the-game-seeing-dude-on-TV perspective) to be really geared towards some prove the world wrong individual goals. That is probably a testament to his immaturity. It is possibly something he will grow out of, but he is not a risk I would like to take in light of the state of this team. He's not a good addition to our fragile mix. His talent is a good mix, but the crap that comes with him is not.

No thanks on Lance.

Besides for the 1 Isaih/lambs fight in a decade, link to one other practice fight.

For stack, link to "other fights".

If this stuff happens (and it well could) it stays behind closed doors. It says a lot that Lance's fights make it into the newspaper. If all his issues were just run of the mill competitiveness, nobody would hear about it. Obviously, his teammates don't think of it that way or it would never make it out of the lockerroom.

Actually...here's a quote from Isiah: "We fight every year in practice," Thomas said wearily. "Year after year."

http://articles.philly.com/1993-11-21/s ... burn-hills

It was pretty common for that team to fight. Unfortunately the last fight between Laimbeer and Thomas came at a time where they were both worn out from fighting for prominence in the NBA. It came when the team was in decline.

[Redeemed]

"1 - The fact is yes, team mates fight more often than we might think. You can't put competitive people into a "practice" situation and tell them to not go all out - the difference being that they're MORE likely to fight a team mate in practice due to a lot of different factors.
"

Fine. Name 1 other player that has gotten into fights with 2 separate teammates in the same season.

Bill Laimbeer
Isiah Thomas
Rick Mahorn
and the other Bad Boys

Those guys fought multiple times a season on the practice court. They were hyper competitive, but they were crazy close knit. They fought but they were down for each other and the cause (winning a 'ship) in a bad way.

Lance appears (from my fan-of-the-game-seeing-dude-on-TV perspective) to be really geared towards some prove the world wrong individual goals. That is probably a testament to his immaturity. It is possibly something he will grow out of, but he is not a risk I would like to take in light of the state of this team. He's not a good addition to our fragile mix. His talent is a good mix, but the crap that comes with him is not.

No thanks on Lance.

Besides for the 1 Isaih/lambs fight in a decade, link to one other practice fight.

For stack, link to "other fights".

If this stuff happens (and it well could) it stays behind closed doors. It says a lot that Lance's fights make it into the newspaper. If all his issues were just run of the mill competitiveness, nobody would hear about it. Obviously, his teammates don't think of it that way or it would never make it out of the lockerroom.

Direct quote from Rick Mahorn: "Our best fights were with each other at practice, where we could actually land some punches."

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/original- ... foul-ball/

[ImHeisenberg]

You guys are good reading.

Lance is like a dime at the bar, except you know she has an STD and you don't use condoms. People keep telling you that you'll regret it, but the beer goggles and low light make it too tempting for you to use your better judgment.

But maybe it's only gonorrhea, and all he needs is a shot of penicillin.

In this case SVG is the penicillin.

Or maybe Lance has the herp, in which case he's a lost cause, who knows

Funny points!

SVG certainly wouldn't tolerate Lance's antics like Vogel has. But, would SVG knowingly take on that potential hassle?

[Pharaoh]

I guess it all comes down to what you believe

On 1 side stands Lance Stephenson. Obviously talented, potentially the perfect fit

On the other stands Jennings & Smith...and the idea you can't team the 3 together.

The only players that influence my decision on Lance are Drummond & Monroe....and they could thrive with Stephenson IF SVG can get him to buy in

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[The Penguin]

It's a money thing for me.

If we can sign Lance for 8-10 mil on a 3 year deal then do it.

If Lance thinks he's a max player, pass.

[ThirdMan]

People act like from a talent perspective we can just pass on someone of Lance's caliber and just pick someone up in Free Agency. Free agency for Detroit is hard enough and now they're going to potentially pass on someone who is young, talented, and has a skill-set/plays a position of need? Lance is flawed but there isn't any superstars coming to Detroit. You have to steal talent when you can.

[MotownMadness]

People act like from a talent perspective we can just pass on someone of Lance's caliber and just pick someone up in Free Agency. Free agency for Detroit is hard enough and now they're going to potentially pass on someone who is young, talented, and has a skill-set/plays a position of need? Lance is flawed but there isn't any superstars coming to Detroit. You have to steal talent when you can.

I just dont see how you can add a guy like Lance with Smith and Jennings around. Thats just too much of nonsense for one lockeroom. He is very talented though and im torn on what to do. He could really break out next year and be a top 5 SG.

[dVs33]

People act like from a talent perspective we can just pass on someone of Lance's caliber and just pick someone up in Free Agency. Free agency for Detroit is hard enough and now they're going to potentially pass on someone who is young, talented, and has a skill-set/plays a position of need? Lance is flawed but there isn't any superstars coming to Detroit. You have to steal talent when you can.

SVG has said a few times that he wants to build a team not just collect talent. Even though Lance is a very talented player, he doesn't fit the culture that SVG needs to build in Detroit.
We don't have established vets or a clear superstar leader (Drummond is a star, but he's not a leader yet).
I don't think we can add another attitude guy before SVG develops a culture/identity.

[ThirdMan]

People act like from a talent perspective we can just pass on someone of Lance's caliber and just pick someone up in Free Agency. Free agency for Detroit is hard enough and now they're going to potentially pass on someone who is young, talented, and has a skill-set/plays a position of need? Lance is flawed but there isn't any superstars coming to Detroit. You have to steal talent when you can.

SVG has said a few times that he wants to build a team not just collect talent. Even though Lance is a very talented player, he doesn't fit the culture that SVG needs to build in Detroit.
We don't have established vets or a clear superstar leader (Drummond is a star, but he's not a leader yet).
I don't think we can add another attitude guy before SVG develops a culture/identity.

What culture is that exactly? Lance plays his butt off to win basketball games. That's the only "culture" we should be trying to build in Detroit and you do that by acquiring talented basktball players. I don't want good character guys at the expense of talent because talent wins games in this league. I'm not disregarding fit either, Lance's basketball skills would fit perfectly on this team. His character needs work but in a league where all stars want to play in LA, NY, MIA, PHX etc., Detroit needs to take what they can get.

Lastly, we shouldn't be making any free agent decisions based on Brandon freakin' Jennings. That guy does not have a future on this team. Why are we so enamored with next year? Build a team for the future not the present.

[dVs33]

People act like from a talent perspective we can just pass on someone of Lance's caliber and just pick someone up in Free Agency. Free agency for Detroit is hard enough and now they're going to potentially pass on someone who is young, talented, and has a skill-set/plays a position of need? Lance is flawed but there isn't any superstars coming to Detroit. You have to steal talent when you can.

SVG has said a few times that he wants to build a team not just collect talent. Even though Lance is a very talented player, he doesn't fit the culture that SVG needs to build in Detroit.
We don't have established vets or a clear superstar leader (Drummond is a star, but he's not a leader yet).
I don't think we can add another attitude guy before SVG develops a culture/identity.

What culture is that exactly? Lance plays his butt off to win basketball games. That's the only "culture" we should be trying to build in Detroit and you do that by acquiring talented basktball players. I don't want good character guys at the expense of talent because talent wins games in this league. I'm not disregarding fit either, Lance's basketball skills would fit perfectly on this team. His character needs work but in a league where all stars want to play in LA, NY, MIA, PHX etc., Detroit needs to take what they can get.

Lastly, we shouldn't be making any free agent decisions based on Brandon freakin' Jennings. That guy does not have a future on this team. Why are we so enamored with next year? Build a team for the future not the present.

Not sure where the jennings part came from, but i agree. Jennings needs to do something amazing to stick with this team longterm.

Regarding the culture, it's pretty clear.
It's the reason why people suggest players with attitude issues go to the Spurs. It's having a clear direction and a system in place. it's the reason why detroit has sucked for years.
i think the timing is off. I think SVG will be a good coach and will have a direction for the team, but right now he hasn't done it yet, so taking a gamble on Stephenson is too early.
If he was a FA next offseason, then we'd have a better idea if he would fit.

[Pharaoh]

IMO culture in any organization begins with management. JOE allowed the players to do what they wanted. That's fine if you've got strong veterans to control the locker room...

Didn't Smith go to Joe about Cheeks being a moron? Did Smith discuss it with his team mates before going to Joe? Surely Chauncey was involved to some extent?

It's hard to believe that Smith went to Joe and Joe didn't at least speak with Monroe or Chauncey or Sheed afterwards. Surely Joe didn't just take Smith's word as gospel?

Anyway, there's no evidence that Smith is a locker room cancer, or that Jennings is one. Their not smart players but in the locker room they might not be idiots.

What we need is a strong structure in the office and SVG will have that.

What we need is a strong coaching staff. SVG will have that...

And THEN you plug an insanely driven young buck into that mix, someone that will push his team mates in practice, someone who will go all out, all the time. That drive is hard to find.

In an ideal world we'd give SVG a full season to establish his structure & system before taking a calculated risk...but a player of Lance Stephenson's caliber doesn't hit unrestricted free agency often...it's very rare.

I'm (obviously) in favor of taking the gamble

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[epheisey]

I personally, just don't think Lance Stephenson is that good. The numbers don't lie, and his numbers have never proven that he is capable of being a #1 option, which is what he'd be getting paid for to come here. He's a 14ppg game player that rebounds well for his position. We aren't lacking in rebounding, obviously, and his scoring is not very efficient. He doesn't shoot the 3 particularly well, which for a team in need of 3pt shooting, is a poor appropriation of salary cap space imo.

We have KCP on a rookie deal, who I think could be very comparable to Stephenson in 2 more years. This first year with SVG at the helm is a huge question mark as far as who he can impact and help improve. Rushing into a huge deal for a fringe all-star that has some serious attitude problems is not worth it, when we don't even know what we have on the team already. Hold on to the cap space until next off season, and spend it then, hopefully without the huge contract of Smith/Monroe still on the books, and Jennings as an expiring. This team isn't contending this season, there's no reason to repeat what got us here in the first place.

[Pharaoh]

For me there are so many factors with Stephenson

1 - assuming we got him at $9-10 mil we've locked in an alpha on the perimeter for the next 3-4 seasons AND crippled Indiana's starting 5

2 - assuming Rose is never the same AND we've stolen Stephenson from Indiana the Central is wide open for us

3 - I believe every player on our current roster (including Jennings & Smith) are crying out for a real coach, a winner...SVG is that guy!

4 - assuming all of the above is it completely unrealistic to see us contending for the Central crown?

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[ImHeisenberg]

4 - assuming all of the above is it completely unrealistic to see us contending for the Central crown?

No, that's not a reach. But, winning the "central crown" doesn't mean a whole lot when you look at the overall weakness of the entire eastern conference. Miami (assuming they keep the big 3, at least) will still be the powerhouse of the east, and there will be a huge gap between them and the next best team.

Especially when Indiana was the next best team last season, and looked completely lost against Miami in the ECF.

There's still going to be opportunity next season.

[Pharaoh]

4 - assuming all of the above is it completely unrealistic to see us contending for the Central crown?

No, that's not a reach. But, winning the "central crown" doesn't mean a whole lot when you look at the overall weakness of the entire eastern conference. Miami (assuming they keep the big 3, at least) will still be the powerhouse of the east, and there will be a huge gap between them and the next best team.

Especially when Indiana was the next best team last season, and looked completely lost against Miami in the ECF.

There's still going to be opportunity next season.

All true but:

If we're winning the Central that would help attract players.

Even assuming we got Lance Stephenson we wouldn't be capped out. Bynum & Jerebko would be coming off the books and Jennings would now only have 1 season left on his contract.

We'd also have our 2015 first rounder...

Drummond/Monroe - locked in
Monroe/Smith - locked in
???
Stephenson/KCP - locked in
???

This off-season is key for us. We can go with complimentary pieces and hope to build bit by bit...or we can go after Hayward or Stephenson and try to make a big push.

I'm inclined to believe SVG will go for the slow & steady approach...but it's interesting to discuss any and all possibilities

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[ComboGuardCity]

4 - assuming all of the above is it completely unrealistic to see us contending for the Central crown?

No, that's not a reach. But, winning the "central crown" doesn't mean a whole lot when you look at the overall weakness of the entire eastern conference. Miami (assuming they keep the big 3, at least) will still be the powerhouse of the east, and there will be a huge gap between them and the next best team.

Especially when Indiana was the next best team last season, and looked completely lost against Miami in the ECF.

There's still going to be opportunity next season.

I disagree on Miami. Lebron is at his peak right now. Both wade and bosh are declining. They will only get worse from here unless they do a massive revamp of role players. Next years heat might very well be the 08 cavs. Will the pistons be better than them? Doubt it. But teams like Chicago and Washington have the power and cap to fill their missing holes.


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