Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

Baller2014 · Post #1341 » by **Baller2014** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:45 pm

The Spurs were never really picking Dragic, they picked him for the Suns. Nor did they "blow" that deal, Dragic wasn't going to get minutes with Tony Parker already on the roster, and having just drafted George Hill, and the pick had the value of a 2nd rounder, which they moved for another 2nd round and cash. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

dckingsfan · Post #1342 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:29 am

Baller2014 wrote:The Spurs were never really picking Dragic, they picked him for the Suns. Nor did they "blow" that deal, Dragic wasn't going to get minutes with Tony Parker already on the roster, and having just drafted George Hill, and the pick had the value of a 2nd rounder, which they moved for another 2nd round and cash. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

Kind of blows the "Spurs are lucky" thing out of the water...

Baller2014 · Post #1343 » by **Baller2014** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:55 am

How so?

Nivek · Post #1344 » by **Nivek** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:12 pm

To the Generalist/Specialist discussion from page 67 of this thread... I think people are confused about what the Spurs do. I think they draft based on finding the best player possible. Because they know that good players can fill lots of different roles -- meaning, they can do various jobs that need to get done. They become specialists (or generalists) based on their skills, abilities, aptitudes as time passes. It may look like they're drafting for a specialty because they pick guys who have demonstrated SKILLS (such as shooting or rebounding or ball handling) above drafting guys who are great at run-and-jump.

Where they find specialists, I think, is in free agency. They pick up guys off the proverbial scrap heap because the guy has a particular skill they think they can use where another team couldn't.

Danny Green, by the way, isn't much of an example of the "Spurs are good at player development" narrative. Green was a TERRIFIC college player. In YODA, he was one of the top 5 players in his draft class. That he fell to the 2nd round may just be evidence that the NBA does a crummy job of talent evaluation. It's well-established in the research that draft position is a heavy determinant in playing time allocation. In other words, Green got few opportunities to perform early on because he was a 2nd round pick, not because he wasn't good. When he got regular playing time, he performed well at the things he'd long been good at doing -- shooting threes and playing defense.

Leonard's development certainly fits that Spurs player development narrative, although the truth is that he was already working on his shot before the draft -- something teams noticed when he came for pre-draft workouts.

What I think the Spurs coaching staff does well is to ask players to do things on offense that they're already good at doing. On defense, they get good buy-in on their principles. But, most of the work is done before picking a guy up. They find skilled, smart players who are also good guys.

Post #1345 » by **Rafael122** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:36 pm

Mike Wise throwing a fit b/c the DC Sports Bog guy called him out on Wise's recommendation that the Wiz pick Vesely over Leonard. Ironic b/c Wise is the first person who pats himself on the back when he's right about something.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz · Post #1346 » by **NbdyBeatsTheWiz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:55 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Mike Wise throwing a fit b/c the DC Sports Bog guy called him out on Wise's recommendation that the Wiz pick Vesely over Leonard. Ironic b/c Wise is the first person who pats himself on the back when he's right about something.

The best part of Wise's writeup on Vesely was the pounding of the table for him due to his "desire."
That was arguably his greatest weakness, seemingly playing with no passion.
Maybe we "robbed him of it." But I'm certainly not buying that.

Dat2U · Post #1347 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:12 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Mike Wise throwing a fit b/c the DC Sports Bog guy called him out on Wise's recommendation that the Wiz pick Vesely over Leonard. Ironic b/c Wise is the first person who pats himself on the back when he's right about something.

I had to throw my two cents in on twitter. Wise is such a tool and I love the fact that his own fellow employees are the ones taking the shots.

Post #1348 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:49 pm

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Mike Wise throwing a fit b/c the DC Sports Bog guy called him out on Wise's recommendation that the Wiz pick Vesely over Leonard. Ironic b/c Wise is the first person who pats himself on the back when he's right about something.

The best part of Wise's writeup on Vesely was the pounding of the table for him due to his "desire."
That was arguably his greatest weakness, seemingly playing with no passion.
Maybe we "robbed him of it." But I'm certainly not buying that.

I think it was more lack of skills and ability more than lack of passion.

Here's a link to the blog. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... i-leonard/

NbdyBeatsTheWiz · Post #1349 » by **NbdyBeatsTheWiz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:22 pm

Ruzious wrote:
NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Mike Wise throwing a fit b/c the DC Sports Bog guy called him out on Wise's recommendation that the Wiz pick Vesely over Leonard. Ironic b/c Wise is the first person who pats himself on the back when he's right about something.

The best part of Wise's writeup on Vesely was the pounding of the table for him due to his "desire."
That was arguably his greatest weakness, seemingly playing with no passion.
Maybe we "robbed him of it." But I'm certainly not buying that.

I think it was more lack of skills and ability more than lack of passion.

Here's a link to the blog. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... i-leonard/

That's entirely possible. He just never looked like a man on a mission.
And somebody with "desire" and passion will be driven to improve their skills. His abysmal FT shooting was paired with a propensity time and time again to look lost on the court. Those weaknesses don't seem like a lack of ability as much as a lack of "desire."
There are many people with half his size, talent, and ability that play smarter and can shoot a free throw.

tontoz · Post #1350 » by **tontoz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:26 pm

Just read the Sports Bog. That was some serious ownage. :lol:

keynote · Post #1351 » by **keynote** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:49 pm

Vesely demonstrated plenty of passion in international play -- at least, in the YouTube clips I've seen. He was simply too intimidated by the NBA for it to translate Stateside.

tontoz · Post #1352 » by **tontoz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:43 pm

keynote wrote:Vesely demonstrated plenty of passion in international play -- at least, in the YouTube clips I've seen. He was simply too intimidated by the NBA for it to translate Stateside.

I remember before Yi was drafted people were making a big deal about his youtube clips. I was on a Hawks board at the time and he was a possiblity at 3.

Someone posted a link to his games in the Chinese league. He was getting pushed around inside by inferior competition and had no post game. The only things he did competently were run the break and shoot standstill jumpers.

It was obvious that Yi was not a good NBA prospect and it was obvious with Ves. It amazes me that NBA people can get fooled time and time again on players that clearly aren't NBA caliber.

verbal8 · Post #1353 » by **verbal8** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:47 pm

tontoz wrote:It was obvious that Yi was not a good NBA prospect and it was obvious with Ves. It amazes me that NBA people can get fooled time and time again on players that clearly aren't NBA caliber.

Some scouts/organizations look too much at "Run and Jump" rather than basketball. It seems to be especially common if the player has exceptional size.

hands11 · Post #1354 » by **hands11** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:50 pm

verbal8 wrote:
tontoz wrote:It was obvious that Yi was not a good NBA prospect and it was obvious with Ves. It amazes me that NBA people can get fooled time and time again on players that clearly aren't NBA caliber.

Some scouts/organizations look too much at "Run and Jump" rather than basketball. It seems to be especially common if the player has exceptional size.

I almost completely ignore the run and jump part of the draft videos. Its nice to have on a fast break but most the game is not played with one player going coast to coast. Russ Smith has a lot of that at the beginning of his draft video. MEH. OK. Nice to have in the more rare situation that he needs to do that but that isn't going to be the offense.

I try to key in on things they do that I can envision them doing on a specific team given what style that team plays and the NBA in general.

For example. They might be a great iso player but its not like the Wizards are going to utilize that much because the ball is mostly going to be in Wall or Beals hands or getting passed around in a shared offense. Not that we couldn't use a player that can do that in the mix.

Now defense, that translates a lot better. Being good at moving your feet is transferable. So is getting loose balls.

milellie111 · Post #1355 » by **milellie111** » Wed Jul 2, 2014 2:46 am

Grunfeld proves his value as GM by re-signing one of the top coveted free agents around the league Marcin Gortat to a market worthy deal. No other GM could pry away Marcin which we sorely needed. Him, Wall and Beal are the cornerstones and free agency is not over yet. I have confidence that Ariza will be back as well. The cap is expected to grow by $5Million which leaves room for both and then some. We should expect to have $18Million under cap

Post #1356 » by **montestewart** » Wed Jul 2, 2014 2:52 am

milellie111 wrote:Grunfeld proves his value as GM by re-signing one of the top coveted free agents around the league Marcin Gortat to a market worthy deal. No other GM could pry away Marcin which we sorely needed. Him, Wall and Beal are the cornerstones and free agency is not over yet. I have confidence that Ariza will be back as well. The cap is expected to grow by $5Million which leaves room for both and then some. We should expect to have $18Million under cap

You know, the world needs more white rappers in their 50s, and I think you're just the man to represent me. What do you say? We'll be rich.

TGW · Post #1357 » by **TGW** » Wed Jul 2, 2014 2:52 am

montestewart wrote:
milellie111 wrote:Grunfeld proves his value as GM by re-signing one of the top coveted free agents around the league Marcin Gortat to a market worthy deal. No other GM could pry away Marcin which we sorely needed. Him, Wall and Beal are the cornerstones and free agency is not over yet. I have confidence that Ariza will be back as well. The cap is expected to grow by $5Million which leaves room for both and then some. We should expect to have $18Million under cap

You know, the world needs more white rappers in their 50s, and I think you're just the man to represent me. What do you say? We'll be rich.

dckingsfan · Post #1358 » by **dckingsfan** » Wed Jul 2, 2014 4:20 am

milellie111 wrote:Grunfeld proves his value as GM by re-signing one of the top coveted free agents around the league Marcin Gortat to a market worthy deal. No other GM could pry away Marcin which we sorely needed. Him, Wall and Beal are the cornerstones and free agency is not over yet. I have confidence that Ariza will be back as well. The cap is expected to grow by $5Million which leaves room for both and then some. We should expect to have $18Million under cap

So we should have 18M under the cap after we sign Ariza, correct? You might want to listen to Admiral Ackbar. How much profit would that leave for Ted?

pcbothwel · Post #1359 » by **pcbothwel** » Wed Jul 2, 2014 4:25 am

I cant...I just... I just cant

verbal8 · Post #1360 » by **verbal8** » Wed Jul 2, 2014 7:08 pm

montestewart wrote:
milellie111 wrote:Grunfeld proves his value as GM by re-signing one of the top coveted free agents around the league Marcin Gortat to a market worthy deal. No other GM could pry away Marcin which we sorely needed. Him, Wall and Beal are the cornerstones and free agency is not over yet. I have confidence that Ariza will be back as well. The cap is expected to grow by $5Million which leaves room for both and then some. We should expect to have $18Million under cap

You know, the world needs more white rappers in their 50s, and I think you're just the man to represent me. What do you say? We'll be rich.

For Milellie or even EG, the guy you want as your representative is Ben Gordon's agent