Larry Bird vs Lebron James - Greatest SF of all Time

[microfib4thewin]

It's true that Bird had the benefit of the greatest GM of all-time in Red Auerbach, but he also didn't hurt his chances by making "alleged personal" demands like LeBron James did during his Cleveland tenure.

While I have heard that Lebron had something to do with the Cav's decision to trade for Jamison and Shaq I don't think he was the one who was responsible for the Cavs losing Boozer and signing Larry Hughes. The Boozer fiasco can only be chalked up by incompetence from the ownership and Hughes has never been anything more than a mediocre high usage offensive player who can play defense. Those two moves combined with wasting their only lotto pick in the Lebron era on Luke Jackson simply killed any potential for the Cavs to get better. The Cavs essentially screwed themselves before Lebron had any input.

[BmanInBigD]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

[Jim Naismith]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/6
Hakeem 2/3

Edit: Corrected Shaq's Finals appearances

[ceiling raiser]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/5
Hakeem 2/3

Pretty much. Had LeBron lost in the ECF in 07 and this year instead of his team being severely outmatched/outplayed in the Finals, I'd rate him higher.

[tsherkin]

Shaq's actually 4/6, Jim.

ORL in 95, 00, 01, 02 and 04 with LAL and 06 with MIA.

[nonjokegetter]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/5
Hakeem 2/3

Pretty much. Had LeBron lost in the ECF in 07 and this year instead of his team being severely outmatched/outplayed in the Finals, I'd rate him higher.

Same, but imagine if he managed to help the Heat lose to the Bulls in 2011: he'd be a perfect 2/2! Better than Hakeem and at least the same win percentage as Jordan! He really dropped the ball winning the conference finals that year, and it's a black mark, there's no two ways about it.

[ceiling raiser]

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/5
Hakeem 2/3

Pretty much. Had LeBron lost in the ECF in 07 and this year instead of his team being severely outmatched/outplayed in the Finals, I'd rate him higher.

Same, but imagine if he managed to help the Heat lose to the Bulls in 2011: he'd be a perfect 2/2! Better than Hakeem and at least the same win percentage as Jordan! He really dropped the ball winning the conference finals that year, and it's a black mark, there's no two ways about it.

He'd be the same 2/2 as Willis Reed (who didn't play in the Finals in 72). Undefeated, just like Havlicek (8/8).

[Joao Saraiva]

Larry Bird is an all time great no doubt about it, but how can anyone really choose Larry Bird here?

Larry Bird played 13 NBA seasons, while Lebron is currently on his 11th.

Durability
- Lebron has ONLY missed 39 games in his NBA career, for an average of 3.5 missed games per year
- Bird missed 169 games in his NBA career, an average of 13 missed games per year
- Lebron is a tank who barely misses games, Bird became more injury prone as his career went on

Scoring
- Lebron has a career average of 27.5 points, career TS% of 57.9%, eFG% of 52.8%
- Bird has career averages of 24.3 points, career TS% of 56.4%, eFG% of 51.4%
- Lebron scored more, and he scored more efficiently.

Rebounding
- Lebron has a career average of 7.2 rebounds, with a rebounding % of 10.8
- Bird has career averages of 10 rebounds per game, with a rebounding % of 14.5
- Bird is the better rebounder, grabs more rebounds and grabs a higher % of his teams rebounds as well

Playmaking
- Lebron has career averages of 6.9 assists, 3.3 turnovers, an assist % of 34.3, and a turnover% of 12.2
- Bird has career averaged of 6.3 assists, 3.1 turnovers, an assist % of 24.7, and a turnover% of 12.7
- Lebron wins here

Defense
- Lebron is a five time and counting member of the All NBA Defensive 1st team, and DPOY runner up
- Bird was never named to the first team, was never a DPOY or a DPOY runner up, was better at racking up steals
- Hard one to compare really, but this is Lebron convincingly in my eyes.

Misc
- Lebron has a career PER of 27.7 Vs Bird who has a career PER of 23.5
- Lebrons has a PER of 27.3 in the playoffs Vs Bird who has a PER of 21.4 in the playoffs
- Lebron has made 1000+ 3's on 34% shooting Vs Bird who made 649 on 38% shooting
- Lebron has surpassed Bird in scoring, and assist even though he played 2 less seasons
- Lebron and Bird both have 2 Finals MVP's
- Larry Bird has 3 championships, while Lebron has 2
- Lebron has 4 MVP trophies, while Bird has 3
- Lebron currently has 161.2 win shares total in his career Vs Bird who has 145.8 through 13 NBA seasons

I know I probably left somethings out, but I fail to see how anyone can rank Bird higher than Lebron James. Lebron is doing some legendary stuff out there. This is easily Lebron for me.

This. All that you need to read is in this post.

And about Bird getting it done when it gets tough that's just a lie. Bird lost many times in the playoffs in series where he should've won. He came up short some times with his individual exhibitions. LeBron James has also failed sometimes, but let's not act like Bird was perfect (and I'm not telling LeBron failed this year, he actually played true great basketball in the NBA Finals).

[Joao Saraiva]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/5
Hakeem 2/3

Pretty much. Had LeBron lost in the ECF in 07 and this year instead of his team being severely outmatched/outplayed in the Finals, I'd rate him higher.

That's a great reply it just shows how stupid that winning % in the finals is.

Also Shaq is not 4/5, he lost in 2004 and in 95. So at least post accurate info.

[JordansBulls]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/5
Hakeem 2/3

True, however the real black mark is the 2011 finals. Just like Bird in the finals is 1985 and we know the reasons why for those.

[HeartBreakKid]

Bird's my second favorite player ever but, c'mon man, this is LeBron. Couple more or so years of this kind of play and he'll be in the top 3 all-time. But he's already passed Bird by now.

LeBron is 2/5 in the Finals.

Most of the other "greats" are above .500, including Bird:

Bird 3/5
Jordan 6/6
Magic 5/9
Duncan 5/6
Kobe 5/7
Shaq 4/5
Hakeem 2/3

Pretty much. Had LeBron lost in the ECF in 07 and this year instead of his team being severely outmatched/outplayed in the Finals, I'd rate him higher.

this is so good

[Carlos Alberto]

Bird played in an era where there was talent in all positions in the NBA and the east was much better than the east where Lebron played against.

However, are players who are at the same level in my opinion.
I prefer to wait a while longer before deciding.

Sorry my bad Inglês.

[Joao Saraiva]

Bird played in an era where there was talent in all positions in the NBA and the east was much better than the east where Lebron played against.

However, are players who are at the same level in my opinion.
I prefer to wait a while longer before deciding.

Sorry my bad Inglês.

Nowadays:
PGs Parker, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

[RSCD3_]

Bird played in an era where there was talent in all positions in the NBA and the east was much better than the east where Lebron played against.

However, are players who are at the same level in my opinion.
I prefer to wait a while longer before deciding.

Sorry my bad Inglês.

Nowadays:
PGs Parker, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

You leave out Conley, Wall and Dragic but include calderon? I don't have any problems but I am just curious why you put calderon down there.

[Laimbeer]

LeBron has made the finals every season he didn't play with hot garbage, and won a title 50% of the time.

[Jaivl]

Nowadays:
PGs Parker*, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo*, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant*, Manu Ginobili*, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

Bolded = what??
* = what?? with their present level.

But Bird favored of his era too. Lots of talented scoring forwards in the early-mid '80s, but few defensive especialists in the position.

[Joao Saraiva]

Bird played in an era where there was talent in all positions in the NBA and the east was much better than the east where Lebron played against.

However, are players who are at the same level in my opinion.
I prefer to wait a while longer before deciding.

Sorry my bad Inglês.

Nowadays:
PGs Parker, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

You leave out Conley, Wall and Dragic but include calderon? I don't have any problems but I am just curious why you put calderon down there.

I like Calderon as a PG don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's a star or something. Same thing with Tiago. I also said I might have forgotten players I just wrote some as I thought about it.

[Warspite]

Bird played in an era where there was talent in all positions in the NBA and the east was much better than the east where Lebron played against.

However, are players who are at the same level in my opinion.
I prefer to wait a while longer before deciding.

Sorry my bad Inglês.

Nowadays:
PGs Parker, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

In Birds last MVP yr only 4 teams didnt have a 20ppg SF and one of them was James Worthy.

That list looks pathetic compared to what 1986 had to offer in a league with 7 fewer teams.

[RSCD3_]

Nowadays:
PGs Parker, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

You leave out Conley, Wall and Dragic but include calderon? I don't have any problems but I am just curious why you put calderon down there.

I like Calderon as a PG don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's a star or something. Same thing with Tiago. I also said I might have forgotten players I just wrote some as I thought about it.

No worries he is a very good fundamental player but I read what you had ( maybe misread ) as the best players now , and I had that javale McGee face but don't worry you are a good poster


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[RSCD3_]

Bird played in an era where there was talent in all positions in the NBA and the east was much better than the east where Lebron played against.

However, are players who are at the same level in my opinion.
I prefer to wait a while longer before deciding.

Sorry my bad Inglês.

Nowadays:
PGs Parker, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Rondo, Lowry, Calderon, Lillard, Steph Curry
SGs DeRozan, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Lance Stephenson
SFs Kevin Durant, Carmelo, Kawih Leonard, Paul George
PFs Dirk, Duncan, Aldridge, Kevin Love, Serge Ibaka, David Lee
Cs: Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Tiago

Seems like a lot of talent is out there. Only the C position is lacking great talent but then again Ibaka or Duncan can play in that position. PG and SF spots are amazing nowadays, and PF is at really high level.

I might have even forgotten some very talented players in the league today.

In Birds last MVP yr only 4 teams didnt have a 20ppg SF and one of them was James Worthy.

That list looks pathetic compared to what 1986 had to offer in a league with 7 fewer teams.

You mean when the game was played at a much faster pace all of the SF's were scoring at a higher volume? I agree but we have to account for how many of those players were more than just scorers.

Would Kelly tripucka really be one of the top small forwards today probably not

The SF star power might have been higher

Bird king Wilkins worthy but there wasn't this huge depth of SF's


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