The Kobe vs Duncan debate has officially begun

Anklebreaker702 · Post #1 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:39 pm

http://once.unicornmedia.com/now/od/aut ... d=11096807

ROballer · Post #2 » by **ROballer** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:46 pm

Tim Duncan ...this last ring should put an end to that argument

Love Kobe to death but I can't see how he wins this

Post #3 » by **Kilroy** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:50 pm

So why bring it here? Leave it on the GB...

I'll lock it unless someone really wants to discuss it here... And then I'll ignore it.

LAKESHOW · Post #4 » by **LAKESHOW** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:48 pm

KOBE won the MVP for his last title. Some dude who's name I forgot won MVP this year. Kwame Brown? And besides, the spurs have an asterisk on the 1999 strike/shortened title.

Marionettetc · Post #5 » by **Marionettetc** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:43 pm

LAKESHOW wrote:KOBE won the MVP for his last title. Some dude who's name I forgot won MVP this year. Kwame Brown? And besides, the spurs have an asterisk on the 1999 strike/shortened title.

No reason to hate on duncan, the major reason I wouldn't compare them is they both played different positions. Timmy is without a doubt the greatest power forward of all time. No comparison to a guard though

Anklebreaker702 · Post #6 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:44 pm

Why are people but hurt over a debate? If you look at the video, its 6 in 1 hand & half a dozen in the other.

To me its like splitting hairs. In this case there's no wrong answer with either guy.

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Anklebreaker702 · Post #7 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:45 pm

With that being said if its not already on the GB I'll take it there since the subject is so "touchy"

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Post #8 » by **Kilroy** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:50 pm

Anklebreaker702 wrote:With that being said if its not already on the GB I'll take it there since the subject is so "touchy"

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It's not that it's touchy... It's that it's pointless... We all know where this is going to go... On the GB it'll be full of the most asinine Kobe hate imaginable, and here it will be divided down the same lines as it always is.

But only a couple guys said they think it should be closed, so knock yourselves out.

Anklebreaker702 · Post #9 » by **Anklebreaker702** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:53 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Anklebreaker702 wrote:With that being said if its not already on the GB I'll take it there since the subject is so "touchy"

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It's not that it's touchy... It's that it's pointless... We all know where this is going to go... On the GB it'll be full of the most asinine Kobe hate imaginable, and here it will be divided down the same lines as it always is.

But only a couple guys said they think it should be closed, so knock yourselves out.

That's the whole point of debating. If the subject is one sided to the point that everyone's opinion is the same the subject doesn't last long. Am I correct?

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Post #10 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:50 pm

they both suck

Kobe played with Shaq and Gasol
Duncan played with Robinson, Parker, and ginoblili

Post #11 » by **TyCobb** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:13 pm

Who do you want as your franchise player to build a team around? Duncan
Who is more dominant as a basketball player? Kobe

Two complete polar opposite, dominant basketball players. Everyone likes the Big Fundamental, but the Small Fundamental had a poor attitude, making people side with the Big Fundamental more times than not.

All-time great status... Kobe is above Duncan for me.

ak7 · Post #12 » by **ak7** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:51 pm

Kobe hasn't been blessed with the front office/roster stablity that the Spurs have had.

Why is this being overlooked when comparing the two's careers? Kobe has had to win championships with two entirely different cores (won't even talk about the role players).

Kobe has a 3 and 2 peat, something of which Duncan has never achieved.

The only true argument Duncan has is his extra MVP award, but anyone with a knowledgable brain realizes Kobe should have won more than the lone MVP he did.

I still won't put Duncan above Kobe, but I wouldn't put Kobe anywhere higher than 1 spot above Duncan - if that makes sense.

Tiesto_Lakers · Post #13 » by **Tiesto_Lakers** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:52 pm

I've never been a big believer that Duncan should be ahead of Bryant on the all-time list. Duncan is still a good player, but he's nothing more than a role player on a team stacked with talented, smart players. Duncan hasn't been elite since around 2010, and was never really a top PF from the years 2007-2009. He has always been in the discussion with Dirk, Amare, and Garnett as the best PF.

Also, people don't give enough credit to the help Duncan has received from teammates like Parker and Ginobili, and obviously Pop.

Bryant, on the other hand, has been elite (top 2 player in the league) since 2001 ish. He never really had an off year other than 2014 due to injury. Both have 5 rings, both have been stacked with talent. Kobe's supporting cast was not overwhelming in 2009 while the same can be said about Duncan in 2003.

And yeah. The 1999 season* argument is valid. You can compare the Spurs to other teams that year, but you can't compare them to other championship teams from other seasons.

Post #14 » by **Slava** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:55 pm

One thing Lakers fans need to remind themselves before jumping into this comparison is that this is a comparison of the elitest of elite so being inferior is not an indictment on Kobe as a player. Having said that I think its a close call but I'd rate Duncan higher just because its impossible for a guard of Kobe's size to have the same impact on the defensive side of basketball like a true 7ft big man can.

A 7ft big man with defensive skills can guarantee you a league average defense despite having mediocre defenders around him, a great defensive guard cannot do the same.

Neither franchise would swap the two players, Kobe's showmanship, flash and style is perfect for Lakers and LA and Duncan's selflessness, consistency and placing the team over himself is perfectly fit for what San Antonio preach as a franchise.

BlackIce · Post #15 » by **BlackIce** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:04 pm

LAKESHOW wrote:KOBE won the MVP for his last title. Some dude who's name I forgot won MVP this year. Kwame Brown? And besides, the spurs have an asterisk on the 1999 strike/shortened title.

Go check the Finals MVP for Kobe's first 3 rings....also keep in mind the stability that Duncan brought to the Spurs who had no history of winning or rings for the most part.

The asterisk is reaching too regarding '99.

BlackIce · Post #16 » by **BlackIce** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:09 pm

LakeShowAK7 wrote:Kobe hasn't been blessed with the front office/roster stablity that the Spurs have had.

Why is this being overlooked when comparing the two's careers? Kobe has had to win championships with two entirely different cores (won't even talk about the role players).

Kobe has a 3 and 2 peat, something of which Duncan has never achieved.

The only true argument Duncan has is his extra MVP award, but anyone with a knowledgable brain realizes Kobe should have won more than the lone MVP he did.

I still won't put Duncan above Kobe, but I wouldn't put Kobe anywhere higher than 1 spot above Duncan - if that makes sense.

Duncan runs the Spurs, Popovic said he's allowed to coach the way he does because Duncan buys in. He's the reason that franchise is stable, it's arguable that Kobe ran Shaq out of LAL but even if he didn't push him out he played a big factor in that situation. It's not a matter of being blessed, it's a matter decisions ultimately. The 3 - peat point is fair but Shaq in his prime has a case over both Kobe and Duncan so that has to be taken into account.

A Duncan led team has never won less then 50 games minus '99 and the win % was around the same.

ballaholick · Post #17 » by **ballaholick** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:11 pm

ROballer wrote:Tim Duncan ...this last ring should put an end to that argument

Love Kobe to death but I can't see how he wins this

What? Kobe has been the man or 1A on every chip he has won, Duncan was what? the #4 option in these finals? Case closed.

stunnar0b · Post #18 » by **stunnar0b** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:26 pm

If one was asked who'd you start your franchise with, mostly everybody would say Duncan.

Tiesto_Lakers · Post #19 » by **Tiesto_Lakers** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:38 pm

A Duncan led team has never won less then 50 games minus '99 and the wing % was around the same.

Except Duncan didn't lead the Spurs this year, or last year. Duncan wasn't even the 3rd best player this year and the same could be said last year as well. Tony Parker also won Finals MVP in 2007.

Point is Duncan has been surrounded by great talent other than his 2003 title. Ginobili was an absolute beast in 2005. The 1999 season was only 50 games long. Even if Kobe won a title that year I would admit it is not legit.

Kobe had Shaq until 2002, but he also won with two entirely different cores and you could argue that Gasol is not on the same level as Parker and Ginobili. Andrew Bynum could barely walk in 2009 and 2010. Lamar Odom couldn't even score in double digits after he left Kobe.

Post #20 » by **Kilroy** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:48 pm

Kobe. And as much as I try, I can't see it as being anywhere near as close as people are making out.

For reference I feel the same way about Magic being the greatest Laker ever. And I'd probably put West before Kobe in that category too... So it isn't blind Kobe love... I just think he's head and shoulders, the best player of his era.