Should the Suns match a max contract offer for Eric Bledsoe?

[JDLAW]

Can we even give him the max if our ultimate plan is to snag a superstar of some sort in the next two years?

Hunt for a superstar > maxing out bledsoe

He cant be our highest paid and best player. He needs to be a 2nd/3rd option

What is your real point here?

If he executes an offer sheet with the Lakers or Orlando or the Mavs for the max, are you letting him walk for nothing?

No offense, but his has been one of the most asinine threads from its inception. The Suns have control of the situation because of the match provision of the CBA, but only if they are willing to use it. You simply do not let high potential young players like this walk away for nothing.

[Miklo]

Can we even give him the max if our ultimate plan is to snag a superstar of some sort in the next two years?

Hunt for a superstar > maxing out bledsoe

He cant be our highest paid and best player. He needs to be a 2nd/3rd option

What is your real point here?

If he executes an offer sheet with the Lakers or Orlando or the Mavs for the max, are you letting him walk for nothing?

No offense, but his has been one of the most asinine threads from its inception. The Suns have control of the situation because of the match provision of the CBA, but only if they are willing to use it. You simply do not let high potential young players like this walk away for nothing.

I don't know that I'd say this is a pointless conversation to have...the matching provision gives the contract holder the power, but is that power always wise to use? It's my opinion that there *is* a number where Bledsoe's contract becomes less tradeable. So if someone wants to offer more than the FO can envision a) paying to keep Bledsoe or b) matching and packaging in a deal, then it's really not so much letting him walk for nothing as it is saving our cap space for team needs once the number on Bledsoe gets too high.

I'm not saying I think there will necessarily be an offer that makes this a decision point, but I don't think it's ludicrous to consider whether that point exists.

[JDLAW]

Can we even give him the max if our ultimate plan is to snag a superstar of some sort in the next two years?

Hunt for a superstar > maxing out bledsoe

He cant be our highest paid and best player. He needs to be a 2nd/3rd option

What is your real point here?

If he executes an offer sheet with the Lakers or Orlando or the Mavs for the max, are you letting him walk for nothing?

No offense, but his has been one of the most asinine threads from its inception. The Suns have control of the situation because of the match provision of the CBA, but only if they are willing to use it. You simply do not let high potential young players like this walk away for nothing.

I don't know that I'd say this is a pointless conversation to have...the matching provision gives the contract holder the power, but is that power always wise to use? It's my opinion that there *is* a number where Bledsoe's contract becomes less tradeable. So if someone wants to offer more than the FO can envision a) paying to keep Bledsoe or b) matching and packaging in a deal, then it's really not so much letting him walk for nothing as it is saving our cap space for team needs once the number on Bledsoe gets too high.

I'm not saying I think there will necessarily be an offer that makes this a decision point, but I don't think it's ludicrous to consider whether that point exists.

I disagree! My hypothetical was if another team like the Lakers gave him a max offer sheet, the Suns choice was to let him walk for nothing or match the offer. All this other nonsense about future trades etc… do not come into consideration. You either match or don't. If you do not, you let a valuable asset leave for nothing to a rival. It is a massive loss and will set the Suns back several years. It is also a major hit with respect to the fan base to which you are trying to recover to past levels and sell tickets to. You cannot just let your prime players walk for nothing.

[Miklo]

What is your real point here?

If he executes an offer sheet with the Lakers or Orlando or the Mavs for the max, are you letting him walk for nothing?

No offense, but his has been one of the most asinine threads from its inception. The Suns have control of the situation because of the match provision of the CBA, but only if they are willing to use it. You simply do not let high potential young players like this walk away for nothing.

I don't know that I'd say this is a pointless conversation to have...the matching provision gives the contract holder the power, but is that power always wise to use? It's my opinion that there *is* a number where Bledsoe's contract becomes less tradeable. So if someone wants to offer more than the FO can envision a) paying to keep Bledsoe or b) matching and packaging in a deal, then it's really not so much letting him walk for nothing as it is saving our cap space for team needs once the number on Bledsoe gets too high.

I'm not saying I think there will necessarily be an offer that makes this a decision point, but I don't think it's ludicrous to consider whether that point exists.

I disagree! My hypothetical was if another team like the Lakers gave him a max offer sheet, the Suns choice was to let him walk for nothing or match the offer. All this other nonsense about future trades etc… do not come into consideration. You either match or don't. If you do not, you let a valuable asset leave for nothing to a rival. It is a massive loss and will set the Suns back several years. It is also a major hit with respect to the fan base to which you are trying to recover to past levels and sell tickets to. You cannot just let your prime players walk for nothing.

This feels like the point where teams can get in trouble though, matching a contract they shouldn't necessarily match just so a rival doesn't get the player. It would kill me inside if something like that happened, sure, but I'd rather think that management is going to look at their 5-year plan and ask themselves whether they can afford a dollar amount and still accomplish the roster moves they think will build a true contender. And also at the player's market value, potential, injury risk, etc, because if another team wants to pay more than market then I would happily let someone else be the one to tie up unnecessary cap space and let us be the long term winner. Bledsoe would be a major loss and I'll be the first to admit that, but I also don't necessarily want max money going his way if we're going to lose flexibility to take this thing all the way. That's I guess the root of this debate, and I'm just not on the side who think Bledsoe is *the* piece of our future no matter what the price.

[JDLAW]

I don't know that I'd say this is a pointless conversation to have...the matching provision gives the contract holder the power, but is that power always wise to use? It's my opinion that there *is* a number where Bledsoe's contract becomes less tradeable. So if someone wants to offer more than the FO can envision a) paying to keep Bledsoe or b) matching and packaging in a deal, then it's really not so much letting him walk for nothing as it is saving our cap space for team needs once the number on Bledsoe gets too high.

I'm not saying I think there will necessarily be an offer that makes this a decision point, but I don't think it's ludicrous to consider whether that point exists.

I disagree! My hypothetical was if another team like the Lakers gave him a max offer sheet, the Suns choice was to let him walk for nothing or match the offer. All this other nonsense about future trades etc… do not come into consideration. You either match or don't. If you do not, you let a valuable asset leave for nothing to a rival. It is a massive loss and will set the Suns back several years. It is also a major hit with respect to the fan base to which you are trying to recover to past levels and sell tickets to. You cannot just let your prime players walk for nothing.

This feels like the point where teams can get in trouble though, matching a contract they shouldn't necessarily match just so a rival doesn't get the player. It would kill me inside if something like that happened, sure, but I'd rather think that management is going to look at their 5-year plan and ask themselves whether they can afford a dollar amount and still accomplish the roster moves they think will build a true contender. And also at the player's market value, potential, injury risk, etc, because if another team wants to pay more than market then I would happily let someone else be the one to tie up unnecessary cap space and let us be the long term winner. Bledsoe would be a major loss and I'll be the first to admit that, but I also don't necessarily want max money going his way if we're going to lose flexibility to take this thing all the way. That's I guess the root of this debate, and I'm just not on the side who think Bledsoe is *the* piece of our future no matter what the price.

The problem is you might not get to the point where flexibility makes difference so you can accomplish roster moves if you let players like this walk away. Players and their agents begin to think you are not serious about winning and paying for a winning team.

[McStunna]

There is no way we won't match.

By the same logic you let Dragic leave elsewhere next year because if we don' we wont have capspace.

If we let Bledsoe go, we won't have capspace next year either. We are not going to get a superstar through capspace unless Lebron sign with us this year and that could be done while maxing Bledsoe.

Everything else just stupid.

in the last 30 years or so how many superstars were acquired via capspace? Shaq and Lebron?

[Fo-Real]

Whatever Bledso gets, should be coming from US!! Not only is his speed and quickness on ofense amazing (and he wil continue to get better the more he meshes with our players), but he is a top notch defender at the guard posistion. His defense makes up for Dragic not being a top notch defender. They go very well together, they gave other teams fits together last year. One of the reasons we started the way we did is because we always had an allstar level guard on the floor, when Bled was out Goran was in and vice versa, then to have them on the court at the same time.... we looked like a damn track team!!! We should stop whining about it and pay the man, and just let the chips fall where they fall for next year and after.

[YFZblu]

Bledsoe isn't close to being worth max money...But it would be a disaster to lose him for nothing, so I would assume a sign-and-trade happens at worst.

[drewsprocket]

I don't know that I'd say this is a pointless conversation to have...the matching provision gives the contract holder the power, but is that power always wise to use? It's my opinion that there *is* a number where Bledsoe's contract becomes less tradeable. So if someone wants to offer more than the FO can envision a) paying to keep Bledsoe or b) matching and packaging in a deal, then it's really not so much letting him walk for nothing as it is saving our cap space for team needs once the number on Bledsoe gets too high.

I'm not saying I think there will necessarily be an offer that makes this a decision point, but I don't think it's ludicrous to consider whether that point exists.

I disagree! My hypothetical was if another team like the Lakers gave him a max offer sheet, the Suns choice was to let him walk for nothing or match the offer. All this other nonsense about future trades etc… do not come into consideration. You either match or don't. If you do not, you let a valuable asset leave for nothing to a rival. It is a massive loss and will set the Suns back several years. It is also a major hit with respect to the fan base to which you are trying to recover to past levels and sell tickets to. You cannot just let your prime players walk for nothing.

This feels like the point where teams can get in trouble though, matching a contract they shouldn't necessarily match just so a rival doesn't get the player. It would kill me inside if something like that happened, sure, but I'd rather think that management is going to look at their 5-year plan and ask themselves whether they can afford a dollar amount and still accomplish the roster moves they think will build a true contender. And also at the player's market value, potential, injury risk, etc, because if another team wants to pay more than market then I would happily let someone else be the one to tie up unnecessary cap space and let us be the long term winner. Bledsoe would be a major loss and I'll be the first to admit that, but I also don't necessarily want max money going his way if we're going to lose flexibility to take this thing all the way. That's I guess the root of this debate, and I'm just not on the side who think Bledsoe is *the* piece of our future no matter what the price.

Threaten to match if you don't like the max and get what you can out of a trade. Anyone willing to sign him to a max deal will then need to cough up just a bit more for him. I was stoked on him until his knee injury. He's a player who will fade greatly if he loses some of his athleticism. Max money, scares me. Orlando Magic are the only team where Bledsoe makes sense as it allows for them to draft Vonleh. They'd have a pretty bad-ass lineup with Bledsoe, Oladipo, Afflalo, Harris/Vonleh, and Nikola. Hopefully Bledsoe will see the light and take a couple million less for the extra year we can offer.

[JDLAW]

You cannot extract compensation for an RFA from the signing team. You either match or let him walk.

[drewsprocket]

You cannot extract compensation for an RFA from the signing team. You either match or let him walk.

So how'd we manage to get Diaw when JJ was RFA via a SnT?
You can't threaten to match and bend over the team signing Bledsoe to an offer-sheet? Worst case scenario is we match and Bledsoe continues to ball the F*ck out next season.

[JDLAW]

You cannot extract compensation for an RFA from the signing team. You either match or let him walk.

So how'd we manage to get Diaw when JJ was RFA via a SnT?
You can't threaten to match and bend over the team signing Bledsoe to an offer-sheet? Worst case scenario is we match and Bledsoe continues to ball the F*ck out next season.

I am not going to explain this to you. Read the hypothetical carefully first and then do a little research and learn this for yourself. Learning the rules of the current CBA would be beneficial. They are different than back in 2005.

[drewsprocket]

You cannot extract compensation for an RFA from the signing team. You either match or let him walk.

So how'd we manage to get Diaw when JJ was RFA via a SnT?
You can't threaten to match and bend over the team signing Bledsoe to an offer-sheet? Worst case scenario is we match and Bledsoe continues to ball the F*ck out next season.

I am not going to explain this to you. Read the hypothetical carefully first and then do a little research and learn this for yourself. Learning the rules of the current CBA would be beneficial. They are different than back in 2005.

Can you email me a copy then : ) j/k

Ok I see what you mean. That kind of sucks. It will cost more for sure then as we're not going to let him walk as we'd definitely should match. I can see Orland and LA trying to sign him for big money.

Anyone disagree that we shouldn't match a max offer?

[PhxSunsFan1234]

So how'd we manage to get Diaw when JJ was RFA via a SnT?
You can't threaten to match and bend over the team signing Bledsoe to an offer-sheet? Worst case scenario is we match and Bledsoe continues to ball the F*ck out next season.

I am not going to explain this to you. Read the hypothetical carefully first and then do a little research and learn this for yourself. Learning the rules of the current CBA would be beneficial. They are different than back in 2005.

Can you email me a copy then : ) j/k

Ok I see what you mean. That kind of sucks. It will cost more for sure then as we're not going to let him walk as we'd definitely should match. I can see Orland and LA trying to sign him for big money.

Anyone disagree that we shouldn't match a max offer?

Are you really trying to argue the fact we shouldn't sign a 24 year old PG, who just averaged 17/5/5 with a 20 PER because you think it's a better idea to save the money for POTENTIALLY a free agent? wtf? So you think he's worth $12 million but not $14 million. wtf is that $2 million going to do?

You don't let a player like this walk for nothing. Suns have all the leverage. If a team comes out and wants to offer a max, you sign him and keep him or sign him and trade him. If no team offers him, the Suns have all the leverage and get a cheaper deal. LOL at letting him walk.

[bwgood77]

You cannot extract compensation for an RFA from the signing team. You either match or let him walk.

So how'd we manage to get Diaw when JJ was RFA via a SnT?
You can't threaten to match and bend over the team signing Bledsoe to an offer-sheet? Worst case scenario is we match and Bledsoe continues to ball the F*ck out next season.

This has been discussed a ton. You can still sign & trade a RFA. If he is thinking about signing an offer sheet (but hasn't signed yet) with a team (in the time period between July 1st and 10th (or that short time period where teams can talk to free agents but not sign them)) then the Suns could threaten to match if they don't offer us a S&T. But we don't get to pick the team, and that team may not have any assets we want.

If he SIGNS the offer sheet with another team, then we have match or let him walk. Not sure why JDLAW always leaves out the above part because I'm pretty sure he is aware of that...we've discussed it multiple times.

[drewsprocket]

I am not going to explain this to you. Read the hypothetical carefully first and then do a little research and learn this for yourself. Learning the rules of the current CBA would be beneficial. They are different than back in 2005.

Can you email me a copy then : ) j/k

Ok I see what you mean. That kind of sucks. It will cost more for sure then as we're not going to let him walk as we'd definitely should match. I can see Orland and LA trying to sign him for big money.

Anyone disagree that we shouldn't match a max offer?

Are you really trying to argue the fact we shouldn't sign a 24 year old PG, who just averaged 17/5/5 with a 20 PER because you think it's a better idea to save the money for POTENTIALLY a free agent? wtf? So you think he's worth $12 million but not $14 million. wtf is that $2 million going to do?

You don't let a player like this walk for nothing. Suns have all the leverage. If a team comes out and wants to offer a max, you sign him and keep him or sign him and trade him. If no team offers him, the Suns have all the leverage and get a cheaper deal. LOL at letting him walk.

No I would sign him for the max but I would rather not to.

You'll notice my last sentence was a question -- I want to see the rationale from those who believe we shouldn't match a max contract.

[JDLAW]

You cannot extract compensation for an RFA from the signing team. You either match or let him walk.

So how'd we manage to get Diaw when JJ was RFA via a SnT?
You can't threaten to match and bend over the team signing Bledsoe to an offer-sheet? Worst case scenario is we match and Bledsoe continues to ball the F*ck out next season.

This has been discussed a ton. You can still sign & trade a RFA. If he is thinking about signing an offer sheet (but hasn't signed yet) with a team (in the time period between July 1st and 10th (or that short time period where teams can talk to free agents but not sign them)) then the Suns could threaten to match if they don't offer us a S&T. But we don't get to pick the team, and that team may not have any assets we want.

If he SIGNS the offer sheet with another team, then we have match or let him walk. Not sure why JDLAW always leaves out the above part because I'm pretty sure he is aware of that...we've discussed it multiple times.

The scenario raised was whether a signed offer sheet was presented to the Suns. I am fully aware that a S&T can be done before the offer sheet is signed, but the Suns would have to be willing to do that as would the other team. If the team that wants him does not have the cap space to sign him outright, the Suns simply tell the team no S&T if they want to keep Bledsoe they have all the leverage. If the team that wants to sign him has the cap space to do so, they might offer token compensation in an S&T or a bad contract, but there will not likely be anything of value coming back. More likely they simply sign the sheet and dare the Suns to match.

[bwgood77]

Can you email me a copy then : ) j/k

Ok I see what you mean. That kind of sucks. It will cost more for sure then as we're not going to let him walk as we'd definitely should match. I can see Orland and LA trying to sign him for big money.

Anyone disagree that we shouldn't match a max offer?

Are you really trying to argue the fact we shouldn't sign a 24 year old PG, who just averaged 17/5/5 with a 20 PER because you think it's a better idea to save the money for POTENTIALLY a free agent? wtf? So you think he's worth $12 million but not $14 million. wtf is that $2 million going to do?

You don't let a player like this walk for nothing. Suns have all the leverage. If a team comes out and wants to offer a max, you sign him and keep him or sign him and trade him. If no team offers him, the Suns have all the leverage and get a cheaper deal. LOL at letting him walk.

No I would sign him for the max but I would rather not to.

You'll notice my last sentence was a question -- I want to see the rationale from those who believe we shouldn't match a max contract.

Yeah, I almost responded to the question above saying it appeared you definitely WOULD match but maybe just worded the last sentence incorrectly.

I don't think anyone really says we shouldn't match. I personally (along with some others) don't think he will get a max, or even near a max. It could take a while too if people like LeBron and Melo take a long time to make decisions, as people will wait until the dominoes start falling to decide if they want to offer Bledsoe anything.

I think a team like the Lakers would rather wait (even if they can't sign a big name this offseason) until summer of 2015 to go after LeBron and Love or something though. I don't think they'd give up that potential opportunity to give Bledsoe a max.

I thought Orlando might if they don't draft a pg, but there is a very good chance they do.

Outside of those two teams, not many teams have either cap space or a need for a pg.

Hopefully both Orlando and the Lakers draft point guards (though I guess even if the Lakers drafted one, they still could sign him because a rookie isn't probably going to be someone they want to play with Kobe and not sure Kobe would be satisfied playing with a rookie pg).

I guess the one wildcard is Toronto if they let Lowry go. If Lowry goes to Miami (ticker above mentions mutual interest) then Toronto could be a team VERY interested in Bledsoe considering they think they are ready to compete now. They have max space. Some players don't want to play there, but I don't know if Bledsoe would turn down a contract, especially if he expected us to match.

Best case for us though is if they give him a verbal offer, we just go ahead and give him a big contract (instead of matching) and that way we could include him in a trade anywhere after December 15th if we felt it made the team better. If you match a deal, you can't trade him for a year without his consent.

[rsavaj]

Looking at the Bledsoe Market: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/ ... -secondary



Teams in red are the ones that have cap space and need point guards. Can't see him going to Milwaukee or Detroit, so we're looking at LAL, DAL, and TOR

[JDLAW]

Looking at the Bledsoe Market: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/ ... -secondary



Teams in red are the ones that have cap space and need point guards. Can't see him going to Milwaukee or Detroit, so we're looking at LAL, DAL, and TOR

This has been discussed in other threads. Dallas does not have the cap space from a practical standpoint and Cuban has already confirmed he is not making max offers. Detroit does not have the cap space for a max offer unless they release the cap hold for Monroe and Stuckey along with others.

Toronto does not have cap space for a max offer and Milwaukee does not have it either.

The only team that we have to worry about offering a max contract to Bledsoe would be the Lakers and right now they want a bigger haul (James and/or Anthony). If they cannot get them they want to preserve cap for 2015 and 2016 so I doubt there will be a max offer from them either.

EDIT: King's accounting for cap space is not very accurate. He appears to forget such things as cap-holds for open roster spaces and the addition of the room exception for teams that are under the cap.