Does anyone still support the Jennings trade?

[Phenomenonsense]

Did anyone ever support the trade? If they did they had honestly never seen Jennings play one time in his entire career. I don't give a **** about Knight, and I would've preferred to keep Middleton around (even at the time a friend and I agreed we would've rather given up Singler), but I would rather have Knight playing defense as a **** PG for like 3-4 million a year than Jennings not playing on either side of the ball being paid 8.

[epheisey]

Knight was awful as a PG. So comparing the two straight up is a little off base in my opinion. I liked the trade then, even thought it was one of Joe's better moves since moving Chauncey. I still like the trade because it addressed a position of need, and didn't hurt the future. Knight wasn't going to be in the long term plans of this team, and Middleton is nothing more than a 10-15 mpg bench player. If a team can't find another one of those, then the top end of that team is probably in bad enough shape, that it wouldn't matter anyways.

Jennings is the first PG we've had since Chauncey that could actually run the offense. He got the ball moving, literally. Knight was never a PG. I said that from the day he was drafted. Sure Jennings is lacking on the defensive side of the ball, and his shot selection was awful, but if he could show improvement under Cheeks, I have to believe that under Van Gundy, he will be a very serviceable starter.

Everyone is so quick to bail on players. Especially in Detroit. Hell, we should have traded Cabrera when he started this season a little slower than normal. And JV and Scherzer right now...holy hell, they're the next on the block. For a fan base that seems to know how bad their coaching has been in past years, its crazy how so many of you pick and choose when that can be a factor.

[Pharaoh]

1 - Jennings is better at running the PnR....kind of important in the NBA

2 - Jennings is better off the bounce...again, kinda important in the NBA.

Knight us a great guy, high character, works hard...he's just not very talented

Middleton? Lighting it up for the Bucks doesn't mean he could have gotten burn from Cheeks or Loyer...if the trade never happens Middleton might have bounced out of the league

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[kamal2_espn]

Pharoah and Epheisey are both correct. Knight was/is a terrible point guard. His passes were almost as bad as Stuckey's - and that's pretty bad. He almost always made the wrong the decision on the break. He couldn't make the entry pass to save his life. He was learning on the job and not doing a very good job of it.

Jennings is a DUMB point guard. Big difference. He has all the skills needed in a starting point guard. He gets the ball to the post. He runs the break effectively and the PnR. Proper coaching will improve his game. In my opinion, Chauncey was a dumb point guard before Brown got to him.

And Middleton is a bum. I don't know why people are wishing he was still on the team. He's as about as good as Singler and I wish Singler was off the team.

[E-Z]

1 - Jennings is better at running the PnR....kind of important in the NBA

2 - Jennings is better off the bounce...again, kinda important in the NBA.

Knight us a great guy, high character, works hard...he's just not very talented

Middleton? Lighting it up for the Bucks doesn't mean he could have gotten burn from Cheeks or Loyer...if the trade never happens Middleton might have bounced out of the league

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Does it matter what Jennings is better than Knight at? I mean, Knight could be a better chess player, book reader, and shoe-tier. The results are the same at the end of the season. Neither can play defense or be moderately effective offensive players. At least one doesn't have traits of a cancerous locker-room presence.

[Q00]

Middleton? Lighting it up for the Bucks doesn't mean he could have gotten burn from Cheeks or Loyer...if the trade never happens Middleton might have bounced out of the league

This is an excellent point that I've never heard mentioned before.

Everyone just assumes Middleton would have shot 40% from 3 here and been a legit rotation piece like he was in Milwaukee, but considering how reluctant Cheeks was to playing young guys like Siva, Mitchell, Datome, and even KCP at times, odds are Middleton wouldn't have played much at all here.

Think about it. Smith, Singler, Stuckey, and KCP took all the minutes at SF/SG. There wouldn't have even been minutes for Middleton, unless they came at the expense of KCP, because Cheeks was determined to play Smith, Singler, and Stuckey big minutes. Would people have been happy seeing a 2nd round pick playing over our 8th pick?

The only reason he got a chance to play that much in Milwaukee was because they were tanking. With Cheeks trying to make the playoffs, I just don't think he would've even given Middleton much of a chance to play, because he ever really gave the other young guys much of a chance.

And if he never got to play, we wouldn't have seen what he could do, and after two years of a 2nd round pick not showing much, the odds are the Pistons probably would'nt even have brought him back next year anyways. So hindsight is always 20-20 whe you see a player your team traded succeeding for another team, but it doesn't always mean it would've worked out the same here.

[Spider156]

I still support it. People are forgetting that Jennings was producing very nice numbers before Cheeks was fired. He's not our problem. First we have to take care of the Smith/Monroe problem and then the SF problem then comes the PG. Jennings knows how to play. SVG is a great coach. He knows what he has with his PGs.

[theBigLip]

Lots of great posts on page 3. I'm pretty excited to see what SVG can do for Jennings, for our team D, for JSmoove's shot selection. I'd have to think he will have an impact. I was optimistic last year too, and it didn't turn out too well, but I'm convinced this year will be much different. The key is SVG is in TOTAL control. Our coach isn't going to favor certain players because the GM overpaid for them in free agency, unlike last year. And we won't have a lame-duck replacement coach trying to get wins with his vets while costing our younger players costly minutes. We might start out slow, but I'd really think, especially in the East, that we will be a fringe playoff team THIS year.

[dVs33]

The problem i have with the trade was we threw big money at Smith who didn't fit the system, then gave a away assets to get Jennings who could have just been signed.
If Joe had kept Knight and Middleton, signed Jennings and used what ever remaining money on a cheap SF (Webster/Wright) I would have been pretty happy.

[E-Z]

I still support it. People are forgetting that Jennings was producing very nice numbers before Cheeks was fired. He's not our problem. First we have to take care of the Smith/Monroe problem and then the SF problem then comes the PG. Jennings knows how to play. SVG is a great coach. He knows what he has with his PGs.

What?

What's nice about shooting 38% from the field, 78% from the stripe, 15.5 shots for 17.7 points per game? Talk about a ineffective ball-hog.

[Blkbrd671]

Production is probably more subjective than the perceived value of a player's contract. No one outside of LeBron James was worth JJ's contract. It doesn't take away from the fact that he's still a valuable commodity based on win-shares per 48 minutes.

Eric Gordon is far less productive than JJ on the other spectrum of overpaid athletes. His health contributes to that point in itself. He hasn't had a productive season since 2011, or since he suited up for the Clippers.

Jennings is cheap and ineffective. His production suggests he's worth no more than a lowly first round draft pick still in his rookie deal. The only difference is Jennings' age compared to those younger players. Those guys don't get moved around as much in contrast to just being thrown into the D-league or out of the league altogether.

how are you determining a productive player vs a non productive player. The base line

[Kilo]

From today's Langlois official site mailbag Q&A - http://www.nba.com/pistons/chatmailbox/ ... ne-18-2014

Nick (Grand Rapids, Mich.): I can’t help but think taking the ball out of Brandon Jennings’ hands is wishful thinking. He has some great playmaking abilities, but it’s often overshadowed by unnecessary flashiness and inconsistent shooting. I like him more in a scenario where he shares ballhandling duties. I think Van Gundy will patch up some of this play and even set him up for catch-and-shoot 3-pointers, one of his strong suits. Do we go after a point guard (more specifically, a ballhandler/facilitator) this off-season?

Langlois: I spoke with Van Gundy at length about Jennings recently. Here’s a sample of what he told me: “There are situations where Brandon is very, very good. I haven’t finished enough film, but my initial thought is a little more structure in terms of the situations we put him in and a little more discipline on his part. What you see in Brandon is he’ll have a game where he basically plays pretty well and then he’s got three, four, five plays in a lot of those games that are unexplainable. I think he’s got to cut those out and become a more disciplined guy. People – because he’s been in the league a little bit – forget how young he is, though. He’s 23 years old. He’s very young, he’s talented and a lot of those discipline things tend to take some time to really understand. … I think Brandon, at times, has made simple plays into hard plays. That’s something, hopefully, we can get him to recognize and correct because I think he’s got a lot of ability and I think he’s got a lot of desire to do it the right way and to win.” As Van Gundy studies his backcourt situation, it wouldn’t surprise me if he tries to find someone who can play either guard spot interchangeably just to give him someone who can defend bigger point guards at times. In Jennings, Will Bynum and Peyton Siva the Pistons have three undersized players at the spot.

[E-Z]

Production is probably more subjective than the perceived value of a player's contract. No one outside of LeBron James was worth JJ's contract. It doesn't take away from the fact that he's still a valuable commodity based on win-shares per 48 minutes.

Eric Gordon is far less productive than JJ on the other spectrum of overpaid athletes. His health contributes to that point in itself. He hasn't had a productive season since 2011, or since he suited up for the Clippers.

Jennings is cheap and ineffective. His production suggests he's worth no more than a lowly first round draft pick still in his rookie deal. The only difference is Jennings' age compared to those younger players. Those guys don't get moved around as much in contrast to just being thrown into the D-league or out of the league altogether.

how are you determining a productive player vs a non productive player. The base line

Win Shares Per 48 minutes. Probably my favorite barometer of productivity. Outside of that, the amount of games played is just as important.

[Spider156]

I still support it. People are forgetting that Jennings was producing very nice numbers before Cheeks was fired. He's not our problem. First we have to take care of the Smith/Monroe problem and then the SF problem then comes the PG. Jennings knows how to play. SVG is a great coach. He knows what he has with his PGs.

What?

What's nice about shooting 38% from the field, 78% from the stripe, 15.5 shots for 17.7 points per game? Talk about a ineffective ball-hog.

You can blame the player but I blame it on the coach. Shot goes in if the right play was made. I'm sure Jennings would take leadership seriously. If not then SVG can easily trade him. Those numbers are bad because the team was bad. We had potential. Just not the right coach.

[epheisey]

I still support it. People are forgetting that Jennings was producing very nice numbers before Cheeks was fired. He's not our problem. First we have to take care of the Smith/Monroe problem and then the SF problem then comes the PG. Jennings knows how to play. SVG is a great coach. He knows what he has with his PGs.

What?

What's nice about shooting 38% from the field, 78% from the stripe, 15.5 shots for 17.7 points per game? Talk about a ineffective ball-hog.

Brandon Knight shot 15.2 shots for 17.9 ppg. Brandon Jennings actually only took 14.2 per game and scored 15.5. Brandon Knight also only shot 80% from the stripe. You can make up numbers and pretend like Knight was some great player we let go, but neither are any good. At least Jennings can run an offense.

[kf96]

Jennings has more potential than Knight

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[Pharaoh]

Does it matter what Jennings is better than Knight at? I mean, Knight could be a better chess player, book reader, and shoe-tier. The results are the same at the end of the season.

It matters if it's related to on court production...so Knight's better work ethic & all around good guy-ness are a big plus for him....

But Jennings is a better player. That matters.

Neither can play defense or be moderately effective offensive players. At least one doesn't have traits of a cancerous locker-room presence.

And one is about to have SVG as coach. Time will tell if Jennings can be adjust.

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[E-Z]

I still support it. People are forgetting that Jennings was producing very nice numbers before Cheeks was fired. He's not our problem. First we have to take care of the Smith/Monroe problem and then the SF problem then comes the PG. Jennings knows how to play. SVG is a great coach. He knows what he has with his PGs.

What?

What's nice about shooting 38% from the field, 78% from the stripe, 15.5 shots for 17.7 points per game? Talk about a ineffective ball-hog.

You can blame the player but I blame it on the coach. Shot goes in if the right play was made. I'm sure Jennings would take leadership seriously. If not then SVG can easily trade him. Those numbers are bad because the team was bad. We had potential. Just not the right coach.

A coach can only tell a player what to do; unless there's some sort of electric collar that can be attached to Jennings' neck, zapping him every time he appears to screw up a play, or make shots more difficult than what they have to be. SVG "hopes" to correct him, but there's no definite shot at doing so, based on his brief chat with Keith Langlois, " I think Brandon, at times, has made simple plays into hard plays. That’s something, hopefully, we can get him to recognize"

SVG pretty much alludes to saying it's part coaching and part self-discipline. Jennings' still has to run the play-sets and take what the defense gives him. I don't want him on the team if he's still blowing off teammates and taking step back jumpers when he's wide open, and finishing layups with the same hand... SVG has had moderate success with street ball point guards, but I'd love to see someone else at the helm. Brandon Knight didn't cause a reduction of shot attempts from more efficient players. I can attest to that.

[Spider156]

What?

What's nice about shooting 38% from the field, 78% from the stripe, 15.5 shots for 17.7 points per game? Talk about a ineffective ball-hog.

You can blame the player but I blame it on the coach. Shot goes in if the right play was made. I'm sure Jennings would take leadership seriously. If not then SVG can easily trade him. Those numbers are bad because the team was bad. We had potential. Just not the right coach.

A coach can only tell a player what to do; unless there's some sort of electric collar that can be attached to Jennings' neck, zapping him every time he appears to screw up a play, or make shots more difficult than what they have to be. SVG "hopes" to correct him, but there's no definite shot at doing so, based on his brief chat with Keith Langlois, " I think Brandon, at times, has made simple plays into hard plays. That’s something, hopefully, we can get him to recognize"

SVG pretty much alludes to saying it's part coaching and part self-discipline. Jennings' still has to run the play-sets and take what the defense gives him. I don't want him on the team if he's still blowing off teammates and taking step back jumpers when he's wide open, and finishing layups with the same hand... SVG has had moderate success with street ball point guards, but I'd love to see someone else at the helm. Brandon Knight didn't cause a reduction of shot attempts from more efficient players. I can attest to that.

I'm sure if SVG doesn't want Jennings he could just trade him away. That's what I'm saying.

[Blkbrd671]

Jennings has more potential than Knight

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Disagree with this, BK has the ability to be a good two way player, BJ at his best is a average defender. BJ will be the perceived better player because he'll light up the basic stat sheet. Both will be good but not great players.