About Monroe's PER

[paQo the BAWSER]

Monroe's player efficiency rating was 19.6 last year, and his opponents’ was 20.3. Per 82games.com, the only other player with a PER that high who still lost his personal battle on average was Derrick Favors of the Utah Jazz.

[ImHeisenberg]

What's your point?

You're looking at Monroe in a vacuum. Literally every other person around him was a bad defender last season, which left the entire team constantly lost on defense, not just Monroe.

I'm not going to be an apologist for him, he isn't a plus defender. But, the entire team couldn't defend adequately, whether you want to blame that on coaching or the players around him.

[DetroitPistons]

What's your point?

You're looking at Monroe in a vacuum. Literally every other person around him was a bad defender last season, which left the entire team constantly lost on defense, not just Monroe.

I'm not going to be an apologist for him, he isn't a plus defender. But, the entire team couldn't defend adequately, whether you want to blame that on coaching or the players around him.

Exactly. Better team defense will completely alter that statistic. That statistic only exists because NO ONE on our team cared to play a lick of defense. SVG will most likely change that.

[paQo the BAWSER]

What's your point?

You're looking at Monroe in a vacuum. Literally every other person around him was a bad defender last season, which left the entire team constantly lost on defense, not just Monroe.

I'm not going to be an apologist for him, he isn't a plus defender. But, the entire team couldn't defend adequately, whether you want to blame that on coaching or the players around him.

So that could be for Smith too, right?

[E-Z]

I'd like to know the OP's point as well. PER is probably my least favorite "end-all-be-all" type of statistic, generally because it skimps on defensive efficiency, but I'm assuming that's probably why some will calculate the difference between said player and their match-up for a better result.

I prefer Win Shares Per 48, and Number Fire's NERd rankings over PER. Even the simple difference between a player's offensive and defensive ratings would be more indicative.

[ImHeisenberg]

What's your point?

You're looking at Monroe in a vacuum. Literally every other person around him was a bad defender last season, which left the entire team constantly lost on defense, not just Monroe.

I'm not going to be an apologist for him, he isn't a plus defender. But, the entire team couldn't defend adequately, whether you want to blame that on coaching or the players around him.

So that could be for Smith too, right?

Absolutely. Smith is a better defender than what we saw last season. He wasn't put in a position to succeed, playing small forward. His best defensive position is easily power forward.

We can bash Smith's offensive game all night long, but we know he is a legitimate defensive player. But, that's a subject for another thread.

[Moose10Fan]

Keep Monroe!!

[DetroitSho]

Lol @ op's agenda. If you're so dead set on making everything about Smith vs. Monroe, why didn't you post the same stats for Smith? I hope for your sake he didn't have an even lower PER still with an opponent's PER higher than his.

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[tetris]

Opponent PER is a worthless stat. Only one site tracks it and they refuse to release the methodology for it.

[Moose10Fan]

Smith can't even shoot free throws anymore, imagine watching he and Dre brick after brick, atleast Monroe can get into the 60's.

[rock digger]

Everyone last year was horrible on defense (Drummond included) but I don't think that excuses Monroe for being such a putrid defender. Then again I'm pretty sure everyone already knew Monroe sucks at defense so this is old news to me.

[Invictus88]

What's your point?

You're looking at Monroe in a vacuum. Literally every other person around him was a bad defender last season, which left the entire team constantly lost on defense, not just Monroe.

I'm not going to be an apologist for him, he isn't a plus defender. But, the entire team couldn't defend adequately, whether you want to blame that on coaching or the players around him.

So that could be for Smith too, right?

Absolutely. Smith is a better defender than what we saw last season. He wasn't put in a position to succeed, playing small forward. His best defensive position is easily power forward.

We can bash Smith's offensive game all night long, but we know he is a legitimate defensive player. But, that's a subject for another thread.

We don't know he is a legitimate defensive player. I took a look at the top 20 5 man units where Josh Smith played last year from a minutes played standpoint:

1275 minutes were played with the big three (Smith was a SF)
911 minutes were played with Smith as a PF.

So 42% of the time Smith played PF last year. He did not play defense well 42% of the time.

The idea that somehow Smith played worse last year on offense or defense because he was a 3 in the starting lineup is a myth.

[paQo the BAWSER]

So that could be for Smith too, right?

Absolutely. Smith is a better defender than what we saw last season. He wasn't put in a position to succeed, playing small forward. His best defensive position is easily power forward.

We can bash Smith's offensive game all night long, but we know he is a legitimate defensive player. But, that's a subject for another thread.

We don't know he is a legitimate defensive player. I took a look at the top 20 5 man units where Josh Smith played last year from a minutes played standpoint:

1275 minutes were played with the big three (Smith was a SF)
911 minutes were played with Smith as a PF.

So 42% of the time Smith played PF last year. He did not play defense well 42% of the time.

The idea that somehow Smith played worse last year on offense or defense because he was a 3 in the starting lineup is a myth.

I explain you again:

He was signed to be a star and Dumars told him about keep shooting (that was for Jennings too, I hate Jennings because his NO defense), keep him with SVG and he's a so much better player than Monroe, at least as PF. Smith is a dumb, no doubt, he was in ATL, but the best "coach" he's got in his career has been Woodson

[Invictus88]

Absolutely. Smith is a better defender than what we saw last season. He wasn't put in a position to succeed, playing small forward. His best defensive position is easily power forward.

We can bash Smith's offensive game all night long, but we know he is a legitimate defensive player. But, that's a subject for another thread.

We don't know he is a legitimate defensive player. I took a look at the top 20 5 man units where Josh Smith played last year from a minutes played standpoint:

1275 minutes were played with the big three (Smith was a SF)
911 minutes were played with Smith as a PF.

So 42% of the time Smith played PF last year. He did not play defense well 42% of the time.

The idea that somehow Smith played worse last year on offense or defense because he was a 3 in the starting lineup is a myth.

I explain you again:

He was signed to be a star and Dumars told him about keep shooting (that was for Jennings too, I hate Jennings because his NO defense), keep him with SVG and he's a so much better player than Monroe, at least as PF. Smith is a dumb, no doubt, he was in ATL, but the best "coach" he's got in his career has been Woodson

paQo, you're absolutely right to call Smith's coaches suspect. But that's not the point I was poking holes in.

ImHeisenberg made a claim that Smith wasn't put into a position to succeed because he was a SF last year; implying that a formal shift to PF would have somehow rectified this.

My claim is that the position he played (SF vs PF) was not a determining factor in how he played well last year.
The minutes played numbers that I posted back that up.

Can he play better defensively? I can't see how he could play worse so yes. Will this be mostly a result of just coaching and scheme? Absolutely.