Per ESPN...Nets discussing Thorton for Jarret Jack swap

[Prokorov]

No, you can't argue that. Deron was our main ball handler. When Livingston was asked to be the main ball handler, he struggled. He's not good at running PnRs. He doesn't turn it over but he's not a great playmaker. He played a ton off the ball and primarily guarded wings.

Don't fall for the ESPN narrative that Deron wasn't our PG. It's complete BS.

agreed... livingston was a combo gaurd and what made it work was his size. you cant replace him with a 6'3" point gaurd. jack isnt going to gaurd the other teams best SG or SF and he isnt going to be able to switch on to a SF or PF and hold his own

It all depends on how you view Livingston. I dont see him as a PG. He is a SG in my eyes who can also play point foward. Jack is a combo guard who plays better as a SG while Harris is more PG then SG.

Jack cant play shooting gaurd here because we go small. he can play combo/SG on a team with a traditional lineup, but we dont do that. maybe off the bench when we go bigger at PF with mirza he can play some shooting gaurd but either way he is about as bad a replacement for Livingston as possible.

Livingston plays SG/SF/Wing for this team and he gaurds the opposing teams best wing player. Jack is not covering lebron or durant or derozan, or george. we can go small with jack.

if jack comes here, he is a backup PG. the same thing harris would be. harris also has played a ton of combo/SG in his career and was almost exclusively a SG with atlanta playing a ton next to teague.

either way, ill take harris for the vets min over jack for thornton 100 times out of 100

[Prokorov]

Adding Jack would resemble the old Sacramento Kings backcourt

True PG:
DWill / Bibby

Defensive SG who can bring the ball up some but also slide up to play some SF:
Livingston / Doug Christie

Combo guard who can come in and light it up:
Jack / Bobby Jackson

only we dont have a big front court like webber/divac to make up for a lack of size in the back court.

you cant go small in the backcourt AND the front court. that just doesnt work.

[F3LON]

agreed... livingston was a combo gaurd and what made it work was his size. you cant replace him with a 6'3" point gaurd. jack isnt going to gaurd the other teams best SG or SF and he isnt going to be able to switch on to a SF or PF and hold his own

It all depends on how you view Livingston. I dont see him as a PG. He is a SG in my eyes who can also play point foward. Jack is a combo guard who plays better as a SG while Harris is more PG then SG.

Jack cant play shooting gaurd here because we go small. he can play combo/SG on a team with a traditional lineup, but we dont do that. maybe off the bench when we go bigger at PF with mirza he can play some shooting gaurd but either way he is about as bad a replacement for Livingston as possible.

Livingston plays SG/SF/Wing for this team and he gaurds the opposing teams best wing player. Jack is not covering lebron or durant or derozan, or george. we can go small with jack.

if jack comes here, he is a backup PG. the same thing harris would be. harris also has played a ton of combo/SG in his career and was almost exclusively a SG with atlanta playing a ton next to teague.

either way, ill take harris for the vets min over jack for thornton 100 times out of 100

Where did I say Jack would be starting? He is strictly a backup. Our 2nd unit is bigger at SF with AK and PF with Mirza so Jack would absolutely fit as SG. If you are viewing Jack as Livingstons replacement then no he cant start. I dont see how you interpreted that from my post though?

[F3LON]

Adding Jack would resemble the old Sacramento Kings backcourt

True PG:
DWill / Bibby

Defensive SG who can bring the ball up some but also slide up to play some SF:
Livingston / Doug Christie

Combo guard who can come in and light it up:
Jack / Bobby Jackson

only we dont have a big front court like webber/divac to make up for a lack of size in the back court.

you cant go small in the backcourt AND the front court. that just doesnt work.

DWill and Livingston isnt small. In fact they might be one of the bigger backcourts in the NBA.

Ideally I would like to dump Lopez for a pick and bring in Pau to play center.

[Prokorov]

Where did I say Jack would be starting? He is strictly a backup. Our 2nd unit is bigger at SF with AK and PF with Mirza so Jack would absolutely fit as SG. If you are viewing Jack as Livingstons replacement then no he cant start. I dont see how you interpreted that from my post though?

If you are going to play jack at SG, whats the point of having him over thornton? it still leaves guitirez as the backup, jack isnt much better if at all then thornton at the SG position, jack needs the ball to score unlike thornton who can catch and shoot, and jack has the worst contract.

i just dont see the point of having jack if you are going to make him an off the bench shooting gaurd.

we need a backup PG. there are options we can get who wont cost us thornton and wont have a contract fo 6 million on the books in 15-16. unless this trade comes with the #33 pick, its a poor move for the nets

[Prokorov]

DWill and Livingston isnt small. In fact they might be one of the bigger backcourts in the NBA.

dwill/livingston at PG/SG isnt small

dwill/jack/livingston at PG/SG/SF is very small

if you are swapping jack in for johnson, you are losing size. thats pretty obvious

Ideally I would like to dump Lopez for a pick and bring in Pau to play center.

id love to dump dwill and lopez for chris paul and dwight howard but those arent realistic moves

no one is trading an expiring pau for 2 years of lopez at 32 million.

[MGrand15]

This rumor got denied already but Jack would most definitely be playing backup PG for us. He would occasionally play alongside Deron like everyone does - but I don't think there's anyone in the organization that seriously thinks he's a replacement for Livingston.

Contracts aside, I'd rather have Thornton over Jack anyway. MT23 filled in his role nicely after the trade deadline. With Livingston on the team, we only need a 3rd string PG, 10-15 minute a game type guy. Not a guy who's expecting major minutes like Jack.

[KMartsCrew]

thornton's expiring contract is our main trade chip this offseason, we need to do better than jack.

[therealbig3]

thornton's expiring contract is our main trade chip this offseason, we need to do better than jack.

Who else could we possibly get? Jack is a legit rotation player, one of the best backup PGs in the league...if not the best. Hard to do much better with just an expiring contract.

To get the really good players, or to get draft picks, expiring contracts alone aren't going to get it done. But that's all we have...I think Jarrett Jack caliber players are all we're going to get for Marcus Thornton.

[Prokorov]

thornton's expiring contract is our main trade chip this offseason, we need to do better than jack.

Who else could we possibly get? Jack is a legit rotation player, one of the best backup PGs in the league...if not the best. Hard to do much better with just an expiring contract.

To get the really good players, or to get draft picks, expiring contracts alone aren't going to get it done. But that's all we have...I think Jarrett Jack caliber players are all we're going to get for Marcus Thornton.

we can get any player in the league on an 8-10 million dollar per year deal who is made available. hell, look at houston looking to quickly get rid of salary in order to chase caremllo and lebron. had thornton been expiring last year you may have gotten a good player for him at the deadline. same is true this year

jack isnt much better, if at all better, then thornton. keep marcus unless a good offer comes along.

Varajao? Jeff Green? Mayo? Lin? Ilyasova?

[therealbig3]

thornton's expiring contract is our main trade chip this offseason, we need to do better than jack.

Who else could we possibly get? Jack is a legit rotation player, one of the best backup PGs in the league...if not the best. Hard to do much better with just an expiring contract.

To get the really good players, or to get draft picks, expiring contracts alone aren't going to get it done. But that's all we have...I think Jarrett Jack caliber players are all we're going to get for Marcus Thornton.

we can get any player in the league on an 8-10 million dollar per year deal who is made available. hell, look at houston looking to quickly get rid of salary in order to chase caremllo and lebron. had thornton been expiring last year you may have gotten a good player for him at the deadline. same is true this year

jack isnt much better, if at all better, then thornton. keep marcus unless a good offer comes along.

Varajao? Jeff Green? Mayo? Lin? Ilyasova?

But why would teams trade us an expiring for an expiring? There's no point in doing that deal. Most likely, they would want some extra incentive and we literally have nothing to give them, because we're out of draft picks and cash.

All we can do is look into trading for longer-term deals with Thornton, but that's dicey, because we're trying to shed money for 2015-2016.

For example, trading Thornton for Lin...how does that help Houston exactly? Jeremy Lin is a solid PG, and he's done a good job as their 6th man. The only reason Houston wants to trade him is to shed his salary so that they can go after better players...why would they trade him for another player that makes the same amount of money?

[Prokorov]

Who else could we possibly get? Jack is a legit rotation player, one of the best backup PGs in the league...if not the best. Hard to do much better with just an expiring contract.

To get the really good players, or to get draft picks, expiring contracts alone aren't going to get it done. But that's all we have...I think Jarrett Jack caliber players are all we're going to get for Marcus Thornton.

we can get any player in the league on an 8-10 million dollar per year deal who is made available. hell, look at houston looking to quickly get rid of salary in order to chase caremllo and lebron. had thornton been expiring last year you may have gotten a good player for him at the deadline. same is true this year

jack isnt much better, if at all better, then thornton. keep marcus unless a good offer comes along.

Varajao? Jeff Green? Mayo? Lin? Ilyasova?

But why would teams trade us an expiring for an expiring? There's no point in doing that deal. Most likely, they would want some extra incentive and we literally have nothing to give them, because we're out of draft picks and cash.

All we can do is look into trading for longer-term deals with Thornton, but that's dicey, because we're trying to shed money for 2015-2016.

For example, trading Thornton for Lin...how does that help Houston exactly? Jeremy Lin is a solid PG, and he's done a good job as their 6th man. The only reason Houston wants to trade him is to shed his salary so that they can go after better players...why would they trade him for another player that makes the same amount of money?

just looked at the money, didnt look at who was expiring. the ideal move is moving thortons 8+ million expiring for a better player on like a 2/22 deal. get a talent upgrade while only taking on 1 year/11 million. ill have to look on hoopshype to see who best fits the mold, but im sure their out there. off the top of my head, something like

jeff green 2 years/19 million would work and maybe boston wants to clear the cap and try and add 2 max guys next year and want the extra 9 million in cap room.

keeping options like that open to me is worth alot more then dealing for jack, a worse contract and, at best, a arginally better players

[therealbig3]

keeping options like that open to me is worth alot more then dealing for jack, a worse contract and, at best, a arginally better players

I disagree that he's a marginally better player though...they're both bench guys, but Jack is a really good backup PG.

Thornton just sucks. He gets hot with his jumper every now and then, but other than that, he's a liability.

And ALL contracts longer than Thornton's are worse contracts at this point, because we're going to have to try and get rid of them to get under the luxury tax in 2016.

[Prokorov]

keeping options like that open to me is worth alot more then dealing for jack, a worse contract and, at best, a arginally better players

I disagree that he's a marginally better player though...they're both bench guys, but Jack is a really good backup PG.

Thornton just sucks. He gets hot with his jumper every now and then, but other than that, he's a liability.

I dont think jack is a good backup poing gaurd. he is kinda the same as thornton, a decent instant offense chucker off the bench. the only real different between the two is jack score on the ball while thornton can be more catch and shoot.

jack wasnt great last year. thornton was solid after being dealt, terrible before.

And ALL contracts longer than Thornton's are worse contracts at this point, because we're going to have to try and get rid of them to get under the luxury tax in 2016.

as long as its a 2 year deal we are fine. we need to mvoe one of brook/jj/dwill to get under the tax anyhow. and if we do the player we bring in wont be a major issue in that regard

[therealbig3]

I dont think jack is a good backup poing gaurd. he is kinda the same as thornton, a decent instant offense chucker off the bench. the only real different between the two is jack score on the ball while thornton can be more catch and shoot.

jack wasnt great last year. thornton was solid after being dealt, terrible before.

Even after being dealt, I don't think Thornton was that great. His offense was wildly inconsistent, his decision-making was bad, and his defense looked ok at times, but for the most part, that was bad too.

Jack had a bad year on a dysfunctional Cleveland team. When he was actually surrounded by talent in GS, he had a great year backing up Steph Curry. Before that, he was solid as CP3's replacement in NO, and the year before that, he did a good job playing alongside CP3 as the starting SG.

I don't think he's a guy who should start, but he's more than just a bench chucker imo. He can actually run an offense, at least for a few minutes until Deron or Johnson are back in. I can't say the same about Thornton. If his jumper is off, we're better off not playing him.

[Prokorov]

I dont think jack is a good backup poing gaurd. he is kinda the same as thornton, a decent instant offense chucker off the bench. the only real different between the two is jack score on the ball while thornton can be more catch and shoot.

jack wasnt great last year. thornton was solid after being dealt, terrible before.

Even after being dealt, I don't think Thornton was that great. His offense was wildly inconsistent, his decision-making was bad, and his defense looked ok at times, but for the most part, that was bad too.

Jack had a bad year on a dysfunctional Cleveland team. When he was actually surrounded by talent in GS, he had a great year backing up Steph Curry. Before that, he was solid as CP3's replacement in NO, and the year before that, he did a good job playing alongside CP3 as the starting SG.

I don't think he's a guy who should start, but he's more than just a bench chucker imo. He can actually run an offense, at least for a few minutes until Deron or Johnson are back in. I can't say the same about Thornton. If his jumper is off, we're better off not playing him.

i think maybe this is a grass is greener kind of thing... giving jack a tad too much credit and thornton not enough. thornton is more then a chucker. he is a super hustle glue guy as well. he gets alot of offensive rebounds, deflections, and is always going 100 MPH. he is inconsistent, but jack is also wildly inconsistent(even look at the prior 2 seasons). i also would disagree that jack can run an offense. he really is closer to a scorer and not someone who creates offense for others.

[Keith Van Horn]

so was this move only an attempt to try to save Kidd from leaving? or is this b/c we won't be getting livingston back?

[Bro Johnson]

so was this move only an attempt to try to save Kidd from leaving? or is this b/c we won't be getting livingston back?

I think it was considered because the team is not confident that LIvingston will return, which means they are in need of Deron Williams insurance.