Phoenix Suns Cap Space

[Smitty731]

Updated 4/17 with the expiry of Jerel McNeal's 10 Day Contract and signing of Jerel McNeal to a two year contract.

Current Cap Space: None. $2,672,268.00 over
Maximum Cap Space: $2,827,732.00 (if all options/guarantees were not picked up, all FAs renounced, no draft picks were to be signed this season, and all Exceptions were renounced)
Luxury Tax Space: $16,591,732.00
Tax Apron Space: $20,591,732.00
Hard Capped due to Isaiah Thomas Sign & Trade
2015-2016 Maximum Cap Space: $23,361,050.00

How I got there:

Guaranteed Contracts (15): Earl Barron, Eric Bledsoe, Reggie Bullock, Archie Goodwin, Danny Granger, Gerald Green, Brandon Knight, Alex Len, Jerel McNeal, Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Marcus Thornton, P.J. Tucker, T.J. Warren, Brandan Wright

Partial/Non-Guaranteed Contracts Kept to date (0): None

Carried Money (8): Earl Barron 1 ($53,838.00), Earl Barron 2 ($53,838.00), Michael Beasley ($777,778.00), Seth Curry ($48,028.00), Kendall Marshall ($915,243.00), Jerel McNeal ($53,838.00), Tony Mitchell (816,482.00), A.J. Price ($53,838.00), John Salmons ($2,000,000.00)

FA Cap Holds (0): None

Draft Pick Holds (0): (Bogdan Bogdanovich removed due to team and player agreeing not to sign this season)

Current Exceptions: Room Exception at $2,732,000.00. No BAE due to being under the Cap. TPE of $5,500,000.00 (Goran Dragic).

[Phystic]

Tucker should only be brought back on a reasonable deal. Nothing more than say 3.5 a year for sure. He's a great defensive player and a valuable rebounder(especially offensively) but his offensive game is troubling. What's worse is he doesn't realize his offensive game sucks so he tries to do more than he is capable of.

[Smitty731]

Updated OP on 6/2.

[JDLAW]

Updated 6/2

Current Cap Space: None. $6,329,813.00 over.
Maximum Cap Space: $35,465,447.00 (if all options/guarantees were not picked up, all FAs renounced, no draft picks were to be signed this season, and all Exceptions were renounced)
Projected "Real" Cap Space: $14,795,082.00
Tax Room: $34,537,823.00

How I got there:

Guaranteed Contracts (7): Goran Dragic, Channing Frye (assumes he opts in), Archie Goodwin, Gerald Green, Alex Len, Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Miles Plumlee

Non-Guaranteed Contracts Kept (0): None

Restricted FAs given Qualifying Offers (2): Eric Bledsoe, P.J. Tucker

FA Cap Holds (0): None

FAs Renounced/Players Waived (5): Leandro Barbosa, Dionte Christmas, Emeka Okafor, Shavlik Randolph, Ishmael Smith

Draft Pick Holds (3): #14 at $1,627,600.00 , #18 at $1,325,600.00, #27 at $930,500.00

Expected Exceptions (based on my “real” space projection, subject to change): MLE Room Exception at $2,732,000.00. BAE at $2,077,000.00. No TPEs.

Line of Thinking:
Channing Frye opts in for sure. He would have trouble finding similar money on the open market. Plus, I think he’s loyal to the Suns, who stuck by him during his health troubles. Bledsoe and Tucker will both get Qualifying Offers. They are major parts of this team, so the Suns won’t let them just walk. Okafor will likely be renounced as soon as the Suns can, so they can free up immediate space. Barbosa, Randolph and Smith are not necessary with the makeup of the roster.

I am almost positive one of the three draft picks will be used to stash a player overseas. No team needs 3 rookies. Especially, not a team that is ready for a playoff push. With a nice roster, they should have some room to make a move or two to add pieces to aid them in their goal of making the playoffs.

Smitty, this appears to be close, but a little off. First the Suns do have current cap space to the tune of about $5M their salary commitment for 2013-14 was $53.8M.

For next year they will renounce the cap hold for Okafor, Randolph, Barbosa. When they do that they will have just a bit over $33.5M in commitments they will also have $7.7M in cap holds for Bledsoe and Tucker and just under $4M for the three first rounders - assuming they keep all three of them which puts them at $45. If the cap is $63M as projected, they will have somewhere between $18 in cap room. That number could increase if Frye opts out and signs a long term deal that is a bit more cap friendly. I think the difference is how Beasley's salary is counted on most listing services. He is listed at $2.3M on many lists, but this has been stretched and his cap hit will only be about $780K.

Overall good job!

[Smitty731]

Smitty, this appears to be close, but a little off. First the Suns do have current cap space to the tune of about $5M their salary commitment for 2013-14 was $53.8M.

For next year they will renounce the cap hold for Okafor, Randolph, Barbosa. When they do that they will have just a bit over $33.5M in commitments they will also have $7.7M in cap holds for Bledsoe and Tucker and just under $4M for the three first rounders - assuming they keep all three of them which puts them at $45. If the cap is $63M as projected, they will have somewhere between $18 in cap room. That number could increase if Frye opts out and signs a long term deal that is a bit more cap friendly. I think the difference is how Beasley's salary is counted on most listing services. He is listed at $2.3M on many lists, but this has been stretched and his cap hit will only be about $780K.

Overall good job!

I did go with the 2.3 for Beasley. If I find a discrepancy, I tend to go with Deeks at Shamsports, because I find he is most often correct.

Also, something it took me a while to learn and remember, if you are under, all exceptions are added to your total. So the Room Exception and BAE would both be added in to the total. I think between those two things, we solve our disconnect on the numbers.

And thanks for the support!

[JDLAW]

Smitty, this appears to be close, but a little off. First the Suns do have current cap space to the tune of about $5M their salary commitment for 2013-14 was $53.8M.

For next year they will renounce the cap hold for Okafor, Randolph, Barbosa. When they do that they will have just a bit over $33.5M in commitments they will also have $7.7M in cap holds for Bledsoe and Tucker and just under $4M for the three first rounders - assuming they keep all three of them which puts them at $45. If the cap is $63M as projected, they will have somewhere between $18 in cap room. That number could increase if Frye opts out and signs a long term deal that is a bit more cap friendly. I think the difference is how Beasley's salary is counted on most listing services. He is listed at $2.3M on many lists, but this has been stretched and his cap hit will only be about $780K.

Overall good job!

I did go with the 2.3 for Beasley. If I find a discrepancy, I tend to go with Deeks at Shamsports, because I find he is most often correct.

Also, something it took me a while to learn and remember, if you are under, all exceptions are added to your total. So the Room Exception and BAE would both be added in to the total. I think between those two things, we solve our disconnect on the numbers.

And thanks for the support!

I also look at that site, but begin local here in Phoenix and knowing what the negotiation was, that second year was stretched out. Check the link from an article by the Suns beat writer Paul Coro.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... t/2760819/

[Smitty731]

I also look at that site, but begin local here in Phoenix and knowing what the negotiation was, that second year was stretched out. Check the link from an article by the Suns beat writer Paul Coro.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... t/2760819/

Good to know! I'll update that as we go forward. Thanks for passing it along!

[gaspar]

Channing Frye opts in for sure. He would have trouble finding similar money on the open market.

Boom.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/481219352545337344[/tweet]

[Smitty731]

Channing Frye opts in for sure. He would have trouble finding similar money on the open market.

Boom.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/481219352545337344[/tweet]

Yup was wrong on that. Not sure of his thinking. I'll update later today.

[McStunna]

It was a no-brainer for him to opt out. He will get plenty multi-year offers from just about every contender for the MLE if he doesn't simply stay in Phoenix for less.

[hcsilla]

No team needs 3 rookies.

Yes, just like your team did not in 2001 (Joe Johnson, Kedrick Brown, Joe Forte).

[jowglenn]

His thinking is simple; he had a great comeback year, his value is not going to go any higher, and given his past medical issues it's important to get as big a deal as possible right now. He's over 30.

[jowglenn]

No team needs 3 rookies.

Yes, just like your team did not in 2001 (Joe Johnson, Kedrick Brown, Joe Forte).

I have seen this in a couple places, where a trade is involved in getting a team more 2014 picks, or a team already has 3 such picks (a la phoenix).

"We don't want that many rookies, we are looking for veterans who can come in and help us"

As if the two are mutually exclusive. In Phoenix's case, for example, they can draft those 3 rookies and still bring back their entire team from last year. AND add some other quality veteran player. The rookies provide cheap depth, and you have a better chance of landing a real sleeper guy when you have multiple ones.

I've heard it from Magic fans as well - "we don't want so many rookies, we have enough young guys, time for some veterans" Again, not mutually exclusive.

In some cases, it's true; Phoenix honestly might be one of those cases. Team has plenty of putatively "young" guys (bledsoe, plumlee, morrises, len) and was already on the verge of making the playoffs last year; they might be well served by using some of those picks in trades for veterans.

But the Magic? The Jazz? Get as many young guys as you can, people....

[Smitty731]

No team needs 3 rookies.

Yes, just like your team did not in 2001 (Joe Johnson, Kedrick Brown, Joe Forte).

Yes almost exactly like that. At some point, adding three more rookies to a team that is close isn't really necessary. You aren't going to play them. They probably end up shuttling back and forth between the D-League and your NBA team. If you absolutely strike gold, maybe they all end up being impact players. But that seems unlikely. Even in as deep a draft as this one.

In the Celtics' example you provided, only Joe Johnson turned out to be anything. And he was traded in the middle of his rookie season to bring in vets that could help the team immediately. The Celtics ended up far better that year than anticipated, so the jettisoned Johnson to bring in Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers. Those guys helped them get to the ECF. Brown and Forte never amounted to anything and were out of the league a few years later.

The chances of hitting on 3 guys who all provide an impact, especially as late as those picks are, are very slim. I'd package them if I could and try to get something else.

[Smitty731]

I have seen this in a couple places, where a trade is involved in getting a team more 2014 picks, or a team already has 3 such picks (a la phoenix).

"We don't want that many rookies, we are looking for veterans who can come in and help us"

As if the two are mutually exclusive. In Phoenix's case, for example, they can draft those 3 rookies and still bring back their entire team from last year. AND add some other quality veteran player. The rookies provide cheap depth, and you have a better chance of landing a real sleeper guy when you have multiple ones.

I've heard it from Magic fans as well - "we don't want so many rookies, we have enough young guys, time for some veterans" Again, not mutually exclusive.

In some cases, it's true; Phoenix honestly might be one of those cases. Team has plenty of putatively "young" guys (bledsoe, plumlee, morrises, len) and was already on the verge of making the playoffs last year; they might be well served by using some of those picks in trades for veterans.

But the Magic? The Jazz? Get as many young guys as you can, people....

You also run in to the issue of roster spots. Unless you go the draft and stash route, you get tight there. Realistically I think we can expect Phoenix to bring back Dragic, Goodwin, Green, Len, Morris, Morris, and Plumlee. I think they will bring back Bledsoe, Frye and Tucker (if things don't get too crazy contract wise there). That is already 10 players. If you want to add an established impact piece or two, you are now at 12. Do you fill out the bench with 3 rookies? Or are you better off with veterans on low cost or minimum deals? For a team as young as Phoenix, I'd rather have the vets to fill out my bench. Preferably some guys with playoff experience that can help guide a young team.

[hcsilla]

Deleted

[hcsilla]

No team needs 3 rookies.

Yes, just like your team did not in 2001 (Joe Johnson, Kedrick Brown, Joe Forte).

Yes almost exactly like that. At some point, adding three more rookies to a team that is close isn't really necessary. You aren't going to play them. They probably end up shuttling back and forth between the D-League and your NBA team. If you absolutely strike gold, maybe they all end up being impact players. But that seems unlikely. Even in as deep a draft as this one.

In the Celtics' example you provided, only Joe Johnson turned out to be anything. And he was traded in the middle of his rookie season to bring in vets that could help the team immediately. The Celtics ended up far better that year than anticipated, so the jettisoned Johnson to bring in Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers. Those guys helped them get to the ECF. Brown and Forte never amounted to anything and were out of the league a few years later.

The chances of hitting on 3 guys who all provide an impact, especially as late as those picks are, are very slim. I'd package them if I could and try to get something else.

Following your logic no team needs any rookies since it's not given that a rookie will turn out to be a productive player.

So probably the best solution is always getting rid of draft picks and rookies.

[hcsilla]

You also run in to the issue of roster spots. Unless you go the draft and stash route, you get tight there. Realistically I think we can expect Phoenix to bring back Dragic, Goodwin, Green, Len, Morris, Morris, and Plumlee. I think they will bring back Bledsoe, Frye and Tucker (if things don't get too crazy contract wise there). That is already 10 players. If you want to add an established impact piece or two, you are now at 12. Do you fill out the bench with 3 rookies?

No, your bench is already filled out by the other 7 players that you listed.

If the other 3 are rookies or not doesn't seem to be a problem.

Especially if you keep in mind that last men (virtually) sitting on the Suns' bench last season were Dionte Christmas, Emeka Okafor and Leandro Barbosa.

What a heavy loss if their spots will be taken by 3 rookies...

[Texas Chuck]

So probably the best solution is always getting rid of draft picks and rookies.

Dallas Mavericks strategy of the last 15 years has been pretty much this..... I wouldn't suggest it for teams who don't have big spending owners tho.

[Smitty731]

Following your logic no team needs any rookies since it's not given that a rookie will turn out to be a productive player.

So probably the best solution is always getting rid of draft picks and rookies.

That is pretty far from what I said. It all depends on where you team is currently. Generally, young teams don't succeed at a high level in the NBA. There are blips of success, but the truly successful teams have veteran players. I think Phoenix is close to being a very good team. I don't think adding 3 more young players is going to help them much. Unless, of course, they turn out to be amazing players. At the spots they are picking in, that is doubtful.

Now, take my Celtics for example, they aren't close to contention as presently constructed. If they stay this way, I believe they should pile up as much young talent as possible. Some of it is likely to pan out and lead to future success.

I think it is all highly dependent on where your team sits at the time.