How good do you see Andrew wiggins being?

[noobcake]

- Insane physical tools

Such as? Again, he desnt have unique size. He is a great leaper, but there are great leapers every year. what makes him better then any other guy with 35-40" verticle?

- All-time leading freshman scorer in Jayhawk history

I dont see how this is really relevant. its not like he is the big-10 all time leading scorer, or all time freshman scorer. its kind of a quirky stat. not to mention college stats are a poor way to project pro performance. Hell the player of the year in Wiggins conference (melvin ejim) isnt even projected to be drafted

- Rapid growth in skills - transitioned from a putback Center to a SF to a SG within 2 years

switching positions? i dont see that shows growth. he is being put where he is more suited. its not like he could play cente rin college

- Elite defense

in college with college rules.

- High IQ player, great poise and decisionmaking on both ends of the floor

i witnessed the opposite on the offensive end

- A team player, willingly moves the ball around the floor

there are 100s of "team players" in college. most of them arent even good enough to enter the draft. its great he is unselfish, but being unselfish isnt a reason why someone has "huge upside"

- Great reaction time, he either sees an opportunity and exploits it or gives up the ball, efficient player

he wasnt super efficient in college

- Ups his game against elite competition, takes marque matchups personally, wants to beat the best of the best

again, this can also be said about several players who wont even be drafted


The things you describe are all great attributes to have. but none of them are reasons to expect someone to have huge upside. huge upside is usually reserved for:

Guys with unqiue size
Guys with unique size AND coordination/athleticism
Guys with elite shooting
Guys with unique size AND elite shooting
Guys with elite ballhandling and elite shooting
Guys with elite speed,ballhandling, shooting, and quickness

you look at prior superstars in the making... dwight had elite size/athleticism combo. Lebron had unique size and elite ballhandling and athleticism for his size. Durant had elite shooting/quickness for a player with his size.

wiggins is just a guy with elite athleticism who gets by on that and a high motor. he doesnt have any elite skill and he doesnt have unique size

Prok shutting all the Wiggstans down. Just to continue the last point.

Yao: Elite size, coordination, shooting
LeBron: Elite athleticism, size, handling, vision
Durant: Elite athleticism, size, shooting, quickness
Oden: Elite doesn't even describe his size and skill. He was Shaq v2.
Rose: Elite athleticism, handles, driving, vision
Griffin: Elite athleticism, size, handles, finishing
Wall: See Elite athleticism, size, handles, driving, vision
Irving: Elite handles, shooting, driving, finishing, vision
Davis: Elite athleticism, size, handles, shooting

Wiggins: Elite athleticism and ?

All the successful players had an elite offensive skill for their position, whether it be finishing, driving, shooting or handles. Wiggins can't finish. His handles are below average compared to NBA SF. His jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective. He drives are merely line drives due to handles. His offensive game revolves around jab step jumper, straight line transition drives and put back dunks.

[gurujoshproject]

Pre draft workout mixtape, looks like he has been putting a lot of focus on that left!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHmEOnVLf0I&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

[Billy Shears]

Wiggstan? is that a former soviet republic?

"his jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective"

What does the above statement mean? because it sounds like you meant to say something else, or if that is what you meant to say, that would be an oxymoron. A jumper cannot have perfect form and be ineffective. If the ball don't go in the hoop, the form was not perfect.

[sfernald]

- Insane physical tools

Such as? Again, he desnt have unique size. He is a great leaper, but there are great leapers every year. what makes him better then any other guy with 35-40" verticle?

- All-time leading freshman scorer in Jayhawk history

I dont see how this is really relevant. its not like he is the big-10 all time leading scorer, or all time freshman scorer. its kind of a quirky stat. not to mention college stats are a poor way to project pro performance. Hell the player of the year in Wiggins conference (melvin ejim) isnt even projected to be drafted

- Rapid growth in skills - transitioned from a putback Center to a SF to a SG within 2 years

switching positions? i dont see that shows growth. he is being put where he is more suited. its not like he could play cente rin college

- Elite defense

in college with college rules.

- High IQ player, great poise and decisionmaking on both ends of the floor

i witnessed the opposite on the offensive end

- A team player, willingly moves the ball around the floor

there are 100s of "team players" in college. most of them arent even good enough to enter the draft. its great he is unselfish, but being unselfish isnt a reason why someone has "huge upside"

- Great reaction time, he either sees an opportunity and exploits it or gives up the ball, efficient player

he wasnt super efficient in college

- Ups his game against elite competition, takes marque matchups personally, wants to beat the best of the best

again, this can also be said about several players who wont even be drafted


The things you describe are all great attributes to have. but none of them are reasons to expect someone to have huge upside. huge upside is usually reserved for:

Guys with unqiue size
Guys with unique size AND coordination/athleticism
Guys with elite shooting
Guys with unique size AND elite shooting
Guys with elite ballhandling and elite shooting
Guys with elite speed,ballhandling, shooting, and quickness

you look at prior superstars in the making... dwight had elite size/athleticism combo. Lebron had unique size and elite ballhandling and athleticism for his size. Durant had elite shooting/quickness for a player with his size.

wiggins is just a guy with elite athleticism who gets by on that and a high motor. he doesnt have any elite skill and he doesnt have unique size

Prok shutting all the Wiggstans down. Just to continue the last point.

Yao: Elite size, coordination, shooting
LeBron: Elite athleticism, size, handling, vision
Durant: Elite athleticism, size, shooting, quickness
Oden: Elite doesn't even describe his size and skill. He was Shaq v2.
Rose: Elite athleticism, handles, driving, vision
Griffin: Elite athleticism, size, handles, finishing
Wall: See Elite athleticism, size, handles, driving, vision
Irving: Elite handles, shooting, driving, finishing, vision
Davis: Elite athleticism, size, handles, shooting

Wiggins: Elite athleticism and ?

All the successful players had an elite offensive skill for their position, whether it be finishing, driving, shooting or handles. Wiggins can't finish. His handles are below average compared to NBA SF. His jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective. He drives are merely line drives due to handles. His offensive game revolves around jab step jumper, straight line transition drives and put back dunks.

This argument is annoying because it's so biased. I don't have a dog in this fight, but this is just painful to read.

You say griffin has elite hight? Lol he has always been ripped for being short for a PF and has tiny Trex arms.

Whatever you say about wiggins, he has elite height measures for a 2/3 and beyond elite athleticism. Combined with a work ethic that is off the charts, that is plenty. His trainer in lA said he's the only guy he ever bothered to teach Kobe and Jordon moves because no draftees ever actually have the talent/athleticism to pull them off. He did and picked then up with ease. Watch out for this kid. I wouldn't underestimate him at this point. There's a reason so many teams are trying to rise up in the draft to nab him so desperately.

[fluffernutter]

Wiggstan? is that a former soviet republic?

"his jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective"

What does the above statement mean? because it sounds like you meant to say something else, or if that is what you meant to say, that would be an oxymoron. A jumper cannot have perfect form and be ineffective. If the ball don't go in the hoop, the form was not perfect.

He means it looks pretty but isn't effective. Perhaps the perfect metaphor for Wiggins himself.

[Billy Shears]

Wiggstan? is that a former soviet republic?

"his jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective"

What does the above statement mean? because it sounds like you meant to say something else, or if that is what you meant to say, that would be an oxymoron. A jumper cannot have perfect form and be ineffective. If the ball don't go in the hoop, the form was not perfect.

He means it looks pretty but isn't effective. Perhaps the perfect metaphor for Wiggins himself.

Which doesn't change my point at all because i have yet to see a pretty jumper that didn't end up in the hoop.

[Kabookalu]

I don't even know how a decent 3 point shooter and a average free throw shooter is an ineffective shooter.

[Kabookalu]

Pre draft workout mixtape, looks like he has been putting a lot of focus on that left!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHmEOnVLf0I&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Damn that trainer sure knows how to D up.

[The_Didact_117]

Wiggstan? is that a former soviet republic?

"his jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective"

What does the above statement mean? because it sounds like you meant to say something else, or if that is what you meant to say, that would be an oxymoron. A jumper cannot have perfect form and be ineffective. If the ball don't go in the hoop, the form was not perfect.

He means it looks pretty but isn't effective. Perhaps the perfect metaphor for Wiggins himself.

Which doesn't change my point at all because i have yet to see a pretty jumper that didn't end up in the hoop.

You must not watch a lot of basketball then. Plenty of guys have good form but lack confidence which kills them in game. There are guys with great form who can't hit the ocean from a boat (Marco Belinelli this post season) and guys who have atrocious form but somehow shoot at a high clip (Marion, Bonner)

[sca]

The only thing he's really great at are defense, and transition scoring. I just don't see anything super speical with him. He doesn't create shots for himself, or others well at all in the half court. Somewhere around Kawhi is my thoughts. Not really a #1 option you build your team around.

He's much more athletic than Kawhi.

[youngtea]

I just watched some of his workout videos and I wasn't impressed. He relies heavily on his right hand to dribble. Any good defensive coach can read that and tell his players to watch him only when he is dribbling on his right or effectively push him onto his left hand.

[Quotatious]

Would Eddie Jones be a sensible comparison for Wiggins at this point? I don't want to mention any really big names here, because I'd often done that in the past and ended up being disappointed, but EJ seems like a realistic projection of at least how good he may be. Jones was a freak athlete, excellent defender and still talented enough to put up about 18/5/3 in his prime, on good efficiency. He just wasn't an elite ballhandler (and to me, just didn't seem like a guy who cared enough to become a superstar), but clearly a borderline All-Star talent. Wiggins got a fair share of criticism for his unimpressive handles, so I guess they really have quite a bit in common.

His ceiling might be T-Mac/Carter, but like I've said before, I'd rather be cautious with mentioning such big names. First, let's see what he can do in his rookie season. This is not to say that Eddie Jones is "floor" for Wiggins, no, he's clearly too good of a player to be called a "floor" for a guy who hasn't even stepped his foot on the NBA court, but I think it's definitely what he can realistically become. It's kind of a "middle of the road" between floor and ceiling comparison.

[MadNESS]

Highest: Prime Tracy McGrady
Lowest: Wizards Nick Young

My guess: Joe Johnson - ish

[JAY DASH]

Wiggins dribbles like a toddler that has never seen a basketball so its hard for me to envision him becoming an elite player.

I'm really shocked that I actually saw someone say he could dribble. His handle is awful. You don't need elite handles to get to the rim, we've seen that but I'm not going to act like Wiggins can dribble. I think he'd be ok in Cleveland or Orlando where he doesn't have to be the Number 1 option. His mentality doesn't scream "alpha dog". We already have one in Oladipo...Cleveland has two in Kyrie and Waiters. I think with lowered expectations he can grow as a player a little better than if he's expected to carry a franchise from day one ala LeBron.

[Prokorov]

Wiggstan? is that a former soviet republic?

"his jumper has near perfect form, but is not effective"

What does the above statement mean? because it sounds like you meant to say something else, or if that is what you meant to say, that would be an oxymoron. A jumper cannot have perfect form and be ineffective. If the ball don't go in the hoop, the form was not perfect.

there are guys with terrible shot form that are great shooters (kenny smith and reggie miller come to mind). like wise, you can have great form, but not be a great shooter. mechanics play a big role, but not the only role in being a great shooter.

[Golden Angel]

poor mans Swaggy P

[Hendrix]

The only thing he's really great at are defense, and transition scoring. I just don't see anything super speical with him. He doesn't create shots for himself, or others well at all in the half court. Somewhere around Kawhi is my thoughts. Not really a #1 option you build your team around.

He's much more athletic than Kawhi.

He's a bit more athletic. But, regardless, what does that have anything to do with anything? I said " somewhere around Kawhi". I did not say "he's exactly like Kawhi in every single facet".