LeBron vs. Magic

[MisterHibachi]

Who is higher on your all time list?

[Matt15]

I have Magic at #5 and Lebron anywhere between #9-11, so Magic.

[MisterHibachi]

I have Magic at #5 and Lebron anywhere between #9-11, so Magic.

Can you expand on your reasoning for those two particular rankings?

[Jaivl]

Magic #7
Lebron #8

Bron definitely surpasses Magic next year, though. And waiting to the top 100 project, I think it can maybe change my point of view about Magic.

[Quotatious]

For me, LeBron has just passed Magic after this season, because James is simply a better overall player than Johnson, and now has basically just as good longevity, too (well, slightly worse if you take LBJ's rookie season into account, as it's clearly worse than any season Magic put together, but it doesn't really matter because LeBron is the better player). Currently have James at 7 and Johnson at 8, and LeBron being the superior player is something that I feel pretty comfortable with.

What's the reasoning for it? It's simply LeBron's superiority in terms of all-around game - he's a more complete player - a lot better defensively, in particular, but also in terms of outside shooting ability (sure, it wasn't a must for Magic to develop it in the early part of his career, and he had developed it later on, about 1988, though it always remained an unreliable shot for him, particularly under pressure in the postseason). LeBron simply has more ways to hurt you offensively, when you also add his midrange pull-up, something that Magic used rather rarely (hook-shot, in particular).

I give Magic a slight edge offensively (IMO a top 3 offensive player ever, LeBron top 5), but LeBron is way superior on D, thus better overall.

[PaulieWal]

For me, LeBron has just passed Magic after this season, because James is simply a better overall player than Johnson, and now has basically just as good longevity, too (well, slightly worse if you take LBJ's rookie season into account, as it's clearly worse than any season Magic put together, but it doesn't really matter because LeBron is the better player). Currently have James at 7 and Johnson at 8, and LeBron being the superior player is something that I feel pretty comfortable with.

Maybe I need to reevaluate Magic's career then. I still have Magic at 5 and LeBron at 8 tied with Bird.

[MisterHibachi]

Other than rings, I don't really see a convincing reason to put Magic over LeBron. Their longevity is basically a wash and LeBron peaked a tier higher.

I'm seeing a lot of all time lists in recent threads putting Magic over LeBron and even in the top 5. Maybe someone can explain Magic's argument to me?

[Quotatious]

Maybe I need to reevaluate Magic's career then. I still have Magic at 5 and LeBron at 8 tied with Bird.

I think you would have to believe that Magic was a lot better than LeBron offensively, in order to rank Magic higher, especially if you have 3-spot difference between them.

I have to mention that I'm slightly lower on Magic right now than I previously had been, and feel like I have to re-evaluate Magic vs Bird, in particular, though, but I think that LeBron is already ahead of both.

Other than rings, I don't really see a convincing reason to put Magic over LeBron. Their longevity is basically a wash and LeBron peaked a tier higher.

I'm seeing a lot of all time lists in recent threads putting Magic over LeBron and even in the top 5. Maybe someone can explain Magic's argument to me?

I agree. I would like to see some good pro-Magic arguments, too.

For me, Jordan is the only perimeter player (maybe Oscar, too, but very unlikely, and we don't have that much data available about him) who can match or exceed LeBron's overall game, among perimeter players.

Getting back to Magic, I find it hard to argue that he has a really strong case against some of the great two-way bigmen (Kareem, Shaq, Duncan and for me also Hakeem, as I'm higher than most posters here, on his overall career, not just peak/prime). I'm generally high on two-way players though, and LeBron is certainly one of them.

[Basketballefan]

For me, LeBron has just passed Magic after this season, because James is simply a better overall player than Johnson, and now has basically just as good longevity, too (well, slightly worse if you take LBJ's rookie season into account, as it's clearly worse than any season Magic put together, but it doesn't really matter because LeBron is the better player). Currently have James at 7 and Johnson at 8, and LeBron being the superior player is something that I feel pretty comfortable with.

Maybe I need to reevaluate Magic's career then. I still have Magic at 5 and LeBron at 8 tied with Bird.

Nah don't. Some people just don't realize how Great Magic was, It's insane to have him as low as 8. Your ranking for Bird and Lbj are just fine.

[Basketballefan]

It's still Magic right now comfortably for Me. James needs another title and 2-3 more MVP caliber seasons to pass Magic.

[DQuinn1575]

LeBron is a much better defender and scorer than Magic.

I'm an old-timer but I can realize when someone passes up the all-time greats like Magic and Bird.

And LeBron has. He is just so much more physically gifted than either of them.

[Exodus]

Magic is the greatest play maker ever in the game. He understood the flow of the game of getting his teammates involved and when to take over the game. Lebron may be the better defender, I would trust in Magic of getting Bosh, Wade more involved into the game, knowing to instill confidence, make them feel apart of the offense instead of isolating running down the clock and then having a teammate have to jack up a shot. Magic was pretty dominate low post scorer in his prime and had the ability to open up the offense, which I didn't see from Lebron in the 14 finals. I'm going to have to go with Magic, because of his superior IQ, of knowing how to control the tempo of the game, maximizing the offense, knowing to exploit mismatches or a bad rotation on opposing defenses. Played in a different era also with hand checking, physical play, more dominant bigs in the paint. I think if you put a prime Magic Johnson in today's game, he would flourish with these rules, limited bigs in the paint, playing small ball at a quicker pace.

Magic Johnson is my choice.

[PaulieWal]

It's still Magic right now comfortably for Me. James needs another title and 2-3 more MVP caliber seasons to pass Magic.

I disagree with the latter part. He doesn't need a title and 2-3 more MVP caliber seasons to pass Magic. A title and/or a MVP caliber season will move him very close and I might have to move LeBron above Magic at that point on my list.

[BmanInBigD]

James has passed Magic and Bird, no question. And that's a damn sad thing for me to admit cuz 80's NBA was the most enjoyable ever IMO. But LeBron just impacts the game in more ways and gives you more and better ways to win basketball games. He's played enough MVP caliber seasons where longevity can't be held against him.

[Swagalicious]

I have Magic 4th and LeBron 10th

I don't see why people are downgrading Magic's rank and upgrading LeBron's... after a season during which LeBron, apart from his efficiency, wasn't really remarkable for his standards

[spearsy23]

Magic was the greatest passer ever, does that matter for anybody? Maybe I overrate him because of that, but i see him as high as number three and no lower than number six.

[MisterHibachi]

I have Magic 4th and LeBron 10th

I don't see why people are downgrading Magic's rank and upgrading LeBron's... after a season during which LeBron, apart from his efficiency, wasn't really remarkable for his standards

Can you elaborate on those rankings?

[Swagalicious]

I have Magic 4th and LeBron 10th

I don't see why people are downgrading Magic's rank and upgrading LeBron's... after a season during which LeBron, apart from his efficiency, wasn't really remarkable for his standards

Can you elaborate on those rankings?

Sure

5 rings > 2

LeBron is not "greater" than Magic yet. Greatness isn't about peak value but about success first, with its connction to level of play coming in second.

What has LeBron done in his NBA career that moves him ahead of Magic in historical terms? Posting 65+ TS% in a non-MVP, no ring, lackadasical defense season? Not making the Finals but putting up incredible PER values in 2009? No one does that for Jordan. I haven't ever heard players brag about seasons during which they didn't succeed to achieve their goals. Yet their fans do it. lol

[MisterHibachi]

I have Magic 4th and LeBron 10th

I don't see why people are downgrading Magic's rank and upgrading LeBron's... after a season during which LeBron, apart from his efficiency, wasn't really remarkable for his standards

Can you elaborate on those rankings?

Sure

5 rings > 2

Wow great argument.

[PaulieWal]

I have Magic 4th and LeBron 10th

I don't see why people are downgrading Magic's rank and upgrading LeBron's... after a season during which LeBron, apart from his efficiency, wasn't really remarkable for his standards

Can you elaborate on those rankings?

Sure

5 rings > 2

I actually have Magic higher on my list but that's a poor argument. How much of that has to do with Magic playing with Kareem (a top 3 GOAT) from day 1 of his career and playing with some incredibly stacked team throughout the 80s?

SN: Out of top 10 all-time players (the ones that people generally have on their lists), only 4 of those got to play with each other:

Shaq + Kobe
Kareem + Magic

How do you account for playing with another top 10 GOAT when all you are counting is rings? I mean put any top 10 GOATS together (reasonably in or around their primes) and I don't see how you don't win titles.