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ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts

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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#61 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:36 am

Braggins wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
Braggins wrote:Al doesn't really pass out of double teams much though. Generally, no matter how many defenders they send at him he forces a shot. He is still fairly effective when forcing the issue like this but I think the obsession with our need for shooting is a little overblown. I mean, we definitely do need shooting but not so much that we should be targeting role players like Mcdermott in the draft just because they can shoot. We still need overall talent more than we need shooters for the rare occasions when Al decides to pass out of the post. If anything, we need shooters more to space the floor so our perimeter guys have more room to attack the basket but that won't really matter if all our perimeter guys our one dimensional role players like Neal and Mcbuckets. The frustrating part is that there are guys that will be available at our spots in the draft that have upside and can shoot (Stauskas, Lavine, Young) but with the exception of the possibility of Stauskas it seems like we are going to get stuck with career backups.


I've been adamant about Charlotte needing a scorer than can shoot from beyond the arc a little more than they need a shooter from the beyond the arc that can score a little. If you look at the starting lineup, they performed well together against other starters all the while consisting of Henderson & MKG on the wings lacking perimeter skills. The problem is that when points are needed, Henderson isn't good enough to be depended on. If Henderson averaged 3-5 more points and was more dependent for frequent 20-plus point games then perimeter shooting wouldn't even be considered much of a issue. They can easily sign a proven deadly 3-point threat via free agency like Anthony Morrow instead of wasting a draft pick for one just because

Agree, people are obsessed with #spacing. Having good shooters to space the floor is great but not at the expense of everything else. Our #spacing lineups were terrible most of the time. There are plenty examples of teams succeeding without a bunch of shooters. You just need to adjust the offensive strategy, which so far doesn't seem like something Clifford is interested in. Memphis might have made it to the finals this year if they were in the East and you don't hear many complaints about their spacing.


In the front office, I don't think Cho is obsessed by #spacing, but Clifford obviously is since a lot of his success as a assistant coach hinged on putting perimeter shooters around Yao Ming & Dwight Howard. The NBA has changed so much since then from zone defenses to elaborate shading schemes that playing inside-out isn't as glamorous as it used to be

I think Cho understand this, but he just might be bad at evaluating overall talent after he fall for a player's defensive ability --- reasons why he might be the one overvaluing and/or favoring Gary Harris & Elfrid Payton a lot at #9

I firmly believe the best way to be a dangerous scoring team is to have multiple players that are threats to attack the rim off the dribble, but are at least capable perimeter shooters. You look at per se Houston (who lack defense), James Harden, Chandler Parsons, Patrick Beverley, Jeremy Lin, nor Terrence Jones are exactly knockdown 3-point shooters that you'll see in a 3-point contest, but within enough penetration from various angles it'll confuse a defense to the point where they'll have to pick their poison to close out hard on the perimeter and possibly give up the lane, or casually close out on the 3-point shot and give away the less efficient but more deadly shot from beyond the arc
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#62 » by Braggins » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:44 am

mrknowitall215 wrote:
Braggins wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:
I've been adamant about Charlotte needing a scorer than can shoot from beyond the arc a little more than they need a shooter from the beyond the arc that can score a little. If you look at the starting lineup, they performed well together against other starters all the while consisting of Henderson & MKG on the wings lacking perimeter skills. The problem is that when points are needed, Henderson isn't good enough to be depended on. If Henderson averaged 3-5 more points and was more dependent for frequent 20-plus point games then perimeter shooting wouldn't even be considered much of a issue. They can easily sign a proven deadly 3-point threat via free agency like Anthony Morrow instead of wasting a draft pick for one just because

Agree, people are obsessed with #spacing. Having good shooters to space the floor is great but not at the expense of everything else. Our #spacing lineups were terrible most of the time. There are plenty examples of teams succeeding without a bunch of shooters. You just need to adjust the offensive strategy, which so far doesn't seem like something Clifford is interested in. Memphis might have made it to the finals this year if they were in the East and you don't hear many complaints about their spacing.


In the front office, I don't think Cho is obsessed by #spacing, but Clifford obviously is since a lot of his success as a assistant coach hinged on putting perimeter shooters around Yao Ming & Dwight Howard. The NBA has changed so much since then from zone defenses to elaborate shading schemes that playing inside-out isn't as glamorous as it used to be

I think Cho understand this, but he just might be bad at evaluating overall talent after he fall for a player's defensive ability --- reasons why he might be the one overvaluing and/or favoring Gary Harris & Elfrid Payton a lot at #9

I firmly believe the best way to be a dangerous scoring team is to have multiple players that are threats to attack the rim off the dribble, but are at least capable perimeter shooters. You look at per se Houston (who lack defense), James Harden, Chandler Parsons, Patrick Beverley, Jeremy Lin, nor Terrence Jones are exactly knockdown 3-point shooters that you'll see in a 3-point contest, but within enough penetration from various angles it'll confuse a defense to the point where they'll have to pick their poison to close out hard on the perimeter and possibly give up the lane, or casually close out on the 3-point shot and give away the less efficient but more deadly shot from beyond the arc

Agree again. I feel like San Antonio is also built much more on this principle than just pure shooting. Being able to attack and threaten the defense off the dribble and moving the ball forces the defense into situations where you can get outside shots that are such good looks that even players that are only solid shooters can make them regularly. SA starts two guys that don't shoot 3's at all, one that shoots them but isn't that good, one guy that is pretty good, and one knockdown shooter and yet they light it up from the three like no one else. Even a lot of their other rotation guys aren't that great at shooting from the outside. They just seem to get completely wide open looks at will and thus make a lot of them.
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#63 » by Eoghan » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:18 am

Braggins wrote:...Stauskas could easily take Hendos spot by midway through the season or at least the start of his sophomore year and would be much easier to hide on D due to his position, whereas Mcdermott is still going to have the same exact issues with his fit during his sophomore season unless there are other changes to our roster and he probably won't improve nearly as much as our options at SG likely will. He would be more likely to be able to play SF in our starting lineup if we got someone like Gibson to play PF but that is not something I'd be willing to rely on and even if it did happen it doesn't seem like we would be moving the needle nearly as much as we would if we just took one of the SG's and developed them....

You lost me here. I think Stauskas is just as much a liability on D than McDermott, especially against teams like Phoenix using 2-PG lineups.
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#64 » by mrknowitall215 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:28 am

BrotherDave wrote:
Braggins wrote:...Stauskas could easily take Hendos spot by midway through the season or at least the start of his sophomore year and would be much easier to hide on D due to his position, whereas Mcdermott is still going to have the same exact issues with his fit during his sophomore season unless there are other changes to our roster and he probably won't improve nearly as much as our options at SG likely will. He would be more likely to be able to play SF in our starting lineup if we got someone like Gibson to play PF but that is not something I'd be willing to rely on and even if it did happen it doesn't seem like we would be moving the needle nearly as much as we would if we just took one of the SG's and developed them....

You lost me here. I think Stauskas is just as much a liability on D than McDermott, especially against teams like Phoenix using 2-PG lineups.


Not just "just as much a liability" but better yet, Stauskas "is more of a liability" on D than McDermott. I don't know if Beilein teach defense or not, but their team is bad on defense overall, all the while they get worst the more Stauskas play. I don't want that much give from take combined with Jefferson on the floor. I think even little Spike Albrecht was measured as a better defender than Stauskas
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#65 » by Braggins » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:38 am

BrotherDave wrote:
Braggins wrote:...Stauskas could easily take Hendos spot by midway through the season or at least the start of his sophomore year and would be much easier to hide on D due to his position, whereas Mcdermott is still going to have the same exact issues with his fit during his sophomore season unless there are other changes to our roster and he probably won't improve nearly as much as our options at SG likely will. He would be more likely to be able to play SF in our starting lineup if we got someone like Gibson to play PF but that is not something I'd be willing to rely on and even if it did happen it doesn't seem like we would be moving the needle nearly as much as we would if we just took one of the SG's and developed them....

You lost me here. I think Stauskas is just as much a liability on D than McDermott, especially against teams like Phoenix using 2-PG lineups.

I think it's easier to hide someone on D at SG than SF. I don't think it bodes well for us if between our 3-5 positions we have two terrible defenders and one mediocre defender. Stauskas also seems to have more ballhandling and passing potential. I just feel like with the way our roster is constructed we won't be getting a potential starter with McDermott and all he is going to do for us is be a one-dimensional shooter off our bench. Unless we think he is going to be a 20 a game scorer I don't want him due to his fit and lack of other skills. Stauskas might be in the same boat but I think he has more potential for growth than Mcdermott so I'd rather just take the SG so we might get a starter in a year or two. I would rather take Lavine over both of them or one of the top PF's if they drop. I'd be ok with Stauskas but absolutely do not want Mcdermott. If we had an elite rim protector instead of Al I wouldn't be so against him.

edit: For some reason this is very hard for me to explain. I'm surprised I didn't lose you well before that.
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#66 » by Eoghan » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:36 am

It's not like Stauskas is going to magically transform the Hornets into the GSW. Neither Nik or Doug are likely to score enough off the bat to make up for the harm they cause the defense but I like Doug better because his IQ is immaculate and seems like a seamless fit into a quality role player.
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#67 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:38 am

BrotherDave wrote:It's not like Stauskas is going to magically transform the Hornets into the GSW. Neither Nik or Doug are likely to score enough off the bat to make up for the harm they cause the defense but I like Doug better because his IQ is immaculate and seems like a seamless fit into a quality role player.


Doug is going to be fantastic, his defense can be masked a little since he plays forward.

Stauskas on the other hand playing the 2 guard...

Yikes. Hard to mask that.
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Re: ITT: It's Not All Sunshine and Puppy Dog Farts 

Post#68 » by TheKingofSting2 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:01 am

fatlever wrote:just wait until jordan sells the team in a couple of years to a investment group from the middle east.
#puppyfarts


The Seattle Hornets just doesn't sound right. :cry:

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