2014 FIFA World Cup: Group G (GER/POR/GHA/USA)

[Boognish]

Looking ahead is a waste of time, we're happy to be here, hopefully we can give a good performance against Belgium and get a result

[Matty]

That said, I was wrong about saying Klinsmann and the team wouldn't advance after I saw that roster. I still think he made some mistakes from it (Green is still useless, Davis is still borderline, and there was no backup CF), but we got thru, and that's all should have been expected. Everything else going forward is a bonus.

Julian Green is useless? I'm sorry, can you think of a better American winger that would been of use on the team? Julian was never bound to play a game in this tournament, the same way adnan januzaj was never bound to play a game for Belgium. They are there for one reason and one reason only; get valuable experience practicing with their respective national teams.

Think of it this way; Why would you waste a roster spot on an American player who is already in his prime, playing in the MLS, and likely won't see the pitch anyways? might as well use that roster spot on a prospect, and Julian Green is not your regular American prospect to begin with. He's a 19 years old playing on the reserve team of one of the biggest clubs on the planet and was ACTUALLY called up to play friendlies with the likes of Muller, Gotze, and Thiago. You don't get called up by Pep to play with the senior team unless your a big shot prospect with huge potential.

Giving Green this experience of being a part of the national team at a young age will pay huge dividends for his confidence, development and in turn make the US soccer even better in future tournaments.

Dempsey will likely be retired by the next world cup (35), and Green will be 23. He will definitely play a huge part on that team up front and it will be because of the experience being alongside the veteran guys now.

Invest in the future, and the future will pay you back.

[Bernman]

Well if you disagree, you're wrong. The winners often don't impress in the group stage. It's exceptionally difficult to play Belgium then Argentina, probably the hardest 1/4 of the last 16.

No, you are, because it's comparative, and the other half of the bracket contains a few world powers, one of them the host, and 3 other sides playing on their home continent which is why they have looked disproportionately good at this WC. The U.S.' side of the bracket only contains one South American team. European sides on average don't look as good in Europe, and South American sides look better South America, so Belgium isn't Belgium, Colombia isn't Colombia, etc., as you know them.

Incidentally, Michael Ballack agreed. Before the game he actually thought as it pertained to long shot hopes of winning the WC that it would have ironically benefited the U.S. to lose to Germany so they'd end up on the considerably easier side of the bracket.

[Bernman]

Julian Green is useless? I'm sorry, can you think of a better American winger that would been of use on the team? Julian was never bound to play a game in this tournament, the same way adnan januzaj was never bound to play a game for Belgium. They are there for one reason and one reason only; get valuable experience practicing with their respective national teams.

Think of it this way; Why would you waste a roster spot on an American player who is already in his prime, playing in the MLS, and likely won't see the pitch anyways? might as well use that roster spot on a prospect, and Julian Green is not your regular American prospect to begin with. He's a 19 years old playing on the reserve team of one of the biggest clubs on the planet and was ACTUALLY called up to play friendlies with the likes of Muller, Gotze, and Thiago. You don't get called up by Pep to play with the senior team unless your a big shot prospect with huge potential.

Giving Green this experience of being a part of the national team at a young age will pay huge dividends for his confidence, development and in turn make the US soccer even better.

Julian Green's position is immaterial because he doesn't play and won't unless the U.S. gets trounced by Belgium and he comes on for some meaningless minutes. He is then blocking another cf like Agudelo, Boyd, etc. Another guy who can play CB like Edu.

Anyways, yes there are about a hundred wingers that would have been of more potential use than Green, who plays in the German 4th division and has looked like ass for the national team. One of them was Donovan. He was only being classed as solely a forward by Jurgen so he couldn't be criticized for taking Green instead. But unless you're naive, that's exactly what he did. Shea has already proven a spark plug off the bench on that left side. Corona has looked vastly superior. I could go on and on. But I've made my point.

As far as the experience reason, that's an asinine one that's parroted. He's not even playing to get experience under WC pressure, and he'll have 3 and a half years to get real playing experience before the next one. That period is for players gaining experience. The WC is solely about winning. Which Green is in point of fact useless for like I said. If Jurgen made a promise to get him cap-tied that's a better reason, but he hasn't shown anything to make me care about that interest yet. He's not like Rossi in '06 who had actually shown something by that point, but that staff spurned him anyways, and ultimately he decided to play for Italy to the detriment of both the U.S. and Rossi.

[El Turco]

good run by united states but there is no way they beat the glorious nation of belgium.

[Boognish]

That's a wonderful avatar made by skaterdude

[El Turco]

Looking ahead is a waste of time, we're happy to be here, hopefully we can give a good performance against Belgium and get a result

not surprisingly loser mentality of americans is showing up. #waffletimebitch.

[Boognish]

Didn't mean to speak in the first person there, I'm all about Bosnia.

Sorta.

[Little Italia]

Looking ahead is a waste of time, we're happy to be here, hopefully we can give a good performance against Belgium and get a result

not surprisingly loser mentality of americans is showing up. #waffletimebitch.

BRING IT!!!

[EArl]

Tough bracket for USA.

Belgium, Argentina, Netherlands.

I'll be happy if we get past Belgium.

[Matty]

Julian Green is useless? I'm sorry, can you think of a better American winger that would been of use on the team? Julian was never bound to play a game in this tournament, the same way adnan januzaj was never bound to play a game for Belgium. They are there for one reason and one reason only; get valuable experience practicing with their respective national teams.

Think of it this way; Why would you waste a roster spot on an American player who is already in his prime, playing in the MLS, and likely won't see the pitch anyways? might as well use that roster spot on a prospect, and Julian Green is not your regular American prospect to begin with. He's a 19 years old playing on the reserve team of one of the biggest clubs on the planet and was ACTUALLY called up to play friendlies with the likes of Muller, Gotze, and Thiago. You don't get called up by Pep to play with the senior team unless your a big shot prospect with huge potential.

Giving Green this experience of being a part of the national team at a young age will pay huge dividends for his confidence, development and in turn make the US soccer even better.

Julian Green's position is immaterial because he doesn't play and won't unless the U.S. gets trounced by Belgium and he comes on for some meaningless minutes. He is then blocking another cf like Agudelo, Boyd, etc. Another guy who can play CB like Edu.

Anyways, yes there are about a hundred wingers that would have been of more potential use than Green, who plays in the German 4th division and has looked like ass for the national team. One of them was Donovan. He was only being classed as solely a forward by Jurgen so he couldn't be criticized for taking Green instead. But unless you're naive, that's exactly what he did. Shea has already proven a spark plug off the bench on that left side. Corona has looked vastly superior. I could go on and on. But I've made my point.

As far as the experience reason, that's an asinine one that's parroted. He's not even playing to get experience under WC pressure, and he'll have 3 and a half years to get real playing experience before the next one. That period is for players gaining experience. The WC is solely about winning. Which Green is in point of fact useless for like I said. If Jurgen made a promise to get him cap-tied that's a better reason, but he hasn't shown anything to make me care about that interest yet. He's not like Rossi in '06 who had actually shown something by that point, but that staff spurned him anyways, and ultimately he decided to play for Italy to the detriment of both the U.S. and Rossi.

Bernman, bro, with all due respect, and I mean that in the most sincerest way, I don't really think you know enough about European soccer to comment on Julian Green's career, so I will try to clarify it for you. He plays on Bayern Munich's reserve league team, which is only allowed to play fourth division because the Bundesliga wouldn't allow another Bayern Munich team playing in the upper divisions. So for all intent and purposes that team he plays for is probably good enough to play at the highest level but they are there because they are a development-based team, meant to develop young talented players by putting them in a league with pro players in their prime because they are too good to be playing with guys in their age group. Most of the Germans you saw today toying with the Americans were built up by that very same system and played in that very same reserve team during their teen years.

Basically to put that in terms you can understand, he's playing on Bayern's D-league team that happens to be competing with Euro-league teams.

And again, your showing a lack of knowledge and contradicting yourself by mentioning the fact that Rossi was undermined and mistreated by the American coaching staff yet you think Jurgen gave Green a free ticket to Brazil. Julian green was already getting called up by the German U-18 and U-19 teams for crying out loud, and you think he's not good enough to be apart of the US national team? The US couldn't afford to make the same mistake with Rossi and allow Green to get called up to the German senior team for qualifying matches which means he wouldn't be allowed to play for the Americans, and given his stellar track record so far it was bound to happen in a few years.


And then to top it all off, you think the US had a chance to win this tournament? You really need to educate yourself on the game my friend. I don't want to discourage you but at the same time I'm being realistic and I'm glad Jurgen has that same mindset and would rather use a roster spot that was never going to see the pitch on a prospect.

At this point, the USMNT already won the world cup just by being in the knockout stage. That is the reality.
No one had them past Ghana or Portugal.

The USMNT has as much of chance as winning the world cup as my Raptors have of winning an NBA title. We'd love it to happen but reality hits you really hard

[El Turco]

america winning the tournament? lol maybe the hot dog eating tournament, that's until some skinny asian dude takes that away too.

[Bernman]

Bernman, bro, with all due respect, and I mean that in the most sincerest way, I don't really think you know enough about European soccer to comment on Julian Green's career, so I will try to clarify it for you. He plays on Bayern Munich's reserve league team, which is only allowed to play fourth division because the Bundesliga wouldn't allow another Bayern Munich team playing in the upper divisions. So for all intent and purposes that team he plays for is probably good enough to play at the highest level but they are there because they are a development-based team, meant to develop young talented players by putting them in a league with pro players in their prime because they are too good to be playing with guys in their age group. Most of the Germans you saw today toying with the Americans were built up by that very same system and played in that very same reserve team during their teen years.

Basically to put that in terms you can understand, he's playing on Bayern's D-league team that happens to be competing with Euro-league teams.

And again, your showing a lack of knowledge and contradicting yourself by mentioning the fact that Rossi was undermined and mistreated by the American coaching staff yet you think Jurgen gave Green a free ticket to Brazil. Julian green was already getting called up by the German U-18 and U-19 teams for crying out loud, and you think he's not good enough to be apart of the US national team? The US couldn't afford to make the same mistake with Rossi and allow Green to get called up to the German senior team for qualifying matches which means he wouldn't be allowed to play for the Americans, and given his stellar track record so far it was bound to happen in a few years.


And then to top it all off, you think the US had a chance to win this tournament? You really need to educate yourself on the game my friend. I don't want to discourage you but at the same time I'm being realistic and I'm glad Jurgen has that same mindset and would rather use a roster spot that was never going to see the pitch on a prospect.

At this point, the USMNT already won the world cup just by being in the knockout stage. That is the reality. No one had them past Ghana or Portugal.

You're being an epic douche. You can't say all due respect and then follow with a bunch of disrespect, that was pretty much baseless. We disagreed subjectively and you resorted to using a bunch of ad hominems as a red herring, and a straw man, in lieu of a strong enough argument to try and win it. It doesn't behoove anyone to continue a discussion much further with a person like that, especially on message board that's supposed to be for fun. These are the last things I'm going to say on the subject, and then I'm done with it.

Firstly, the U.S. got jobbed (according to even the English fan and press) against the Germans, who they were outplaying (according to Oliver Kahn himself), in the quarterfinals of the '02 World Cup. In the semifinals they would have played Turkey who they have beaten the last couple of times. If they won that they would only needed to win a one-off, against mighty Brazil, but who they have beaten and threatened in one-offs before. But you're right, it's impossible. If you think that you should put your money where your mouth is and empty out your life savings on the 1:90 odds U.S. doesn't win the World Cup right now. It's supposedly free money, according to you.

Secondly, Julian Green in point of fact plays in the 4th division. It doesn't matter for whom. He's playing against 4th division comp, and he's an individual apart from previous Bayern Munich b-teamers some of whom have become stars and others flopped, so he hasn't proven crap. He had a chance to prove crap on the national team in a few appearances, but he failed in doing so. Therefore, in the interests of winning now his selection is indefensible, and as far as the future is concerned it's still tenuous.

Finally, Rossi was not mistreated by Bruce Arena. Nobody who isn't good enough at the time, even if it's by a marginal amount and who has potential, is not being mistreated in a competitive sport by being left off a team. I never said Rossi was mistreated. He wasn't. They could have reasonably selected him, but he'd be a special case on account, like I said, he had actually shown a pulse on a level worth respecting. And I imagine he would have actually shown something in the friendlies leading up, like he did for his club, and unlike Green did. Green is like an f-teamer, Rossi was more like a b-teamer, who maybe could have contributed in a pinch. The U.S. probably would have been fine with him as a result. But they aren't like a world power who can outright waste a spot on a player who clearly isn't ready, and may well never be (like a fellow shrimp in Adu who thrived on youth teams). If they lose a player they'll just shift around other world class players, or plug one in. The U.S. loses one player in Jozy Altidore and they're discombobulated on how to replace him, leading to only playing one attacker instead. So don't compare U.S. to even Belgium and their situation. It's not comparable.

[Matty]

Julian Green is the future of American soccer, for those of you who still doubt him

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc_M_g72V8Y[/youtube]

When both Bayern's Pep and German's coach Low see something in you, your a pretty big deal.

[cgf]

When did this thread become hilarious?

[Matty]

[

You're being an epic douche. You can't say all due respect and then follow with a bunch of disrespect, that was pretty much baseless. We disagreed subjectively and you resorted to using a bunch of ad hominems as a red herring, and a straw man, in lieu of a strong enough argument to try and win it. It doesn't behoove anyone to continue a discussion much further with a person like that, especially on message board that's supposed to be for fun. These are the last things I'm going to say on the subject, and then I'm done with it.

Firstly, the U.S. got jobbed (according to even the English fan and press) against the Germans, who they were outplaying (according to Oliver Kahn himself), in the quarterfinals of the '02 World Cup. In the semifinals they would have played Turkey who they have beaten the last couple of times. If they won that they would only needed to win a one-off, against mighty Brazil, but who they have beaten and threatened in one-offs before. But you're right, it's impossible. If you think that you should put your money where your mouth is and empty out your life savings on the 1:90 odds U.S. doesn't win the World Cup right now. It's supposedly free money, according to you.

Secondly, Julian Green in point of fact plays in the 4th division. It doesn't matter for whom. He's playing against 4th division comp, and he's an individual apart from previous Bayern Munich b-teamers some of whom have become stars and others flopped, so he hasn't proven crap. He had a chance to prove crap on the national team in a few appearances, but he failed in doing so. Therefore, in the interests of winning now his selection is indefensible, and as far as the future is concerned it's still tenuous.

Finally, Rossi was not mistreated by Bruce Arena. Nobody who isn't good enough at the time, even if it's by a marginal amount and who has potential, is not being mistreated in a competitive sport by being left off a team. I never said Rossi was mistreated. He wasn't. They could have reasonably selected him, but he'd be a special case on account, like I said, he had actually shown a pulse on a level worth respecting. And I imagine he would have actually shown something in the friendlies leading up, like he did for his club, and unlike Green did. Green is like an f-teamer, Rossi was more like a b-teamer, who maybe could have contributed in a pinch. The U.S. probably would have been fine with him as a result. But they aren't like a world power who can outright waste a spot on a player who clearly isn't ready, and may well never be (like a fellow shrimp in Adu who thrived on youth teams). If they lose a player they'll just shift around other world class players, or plug one in. The U.S. loses one player in Jozy Altidore and they're discombobulated on how to replace him, leading to only playing one attacker instead. So don't compare U.S. to even Belgium and their situation. It's not comparable.

On your first point about me being a douche to you, fair enough. I was probably more of a dick than a douche but that's an argument for another day. I was fuming because some of your points were borderline trolling, and this one irked me the most:

Anyways, yes there are about a hundred wingers that would have been of more potential use than Green, who plays in the German 4th division and has looked like ass for the national team.

For starters, I don't even think there are 50 American professional wingers in the MLS, let alone 100 QUALIFIED ones. And then you went on to mention Donovan who was never a winger in his national team career, and some unknown MLS players who have never a seen a European soccer pitch in their careers as suitable replacements. You do realize most bench players on any world cup roster never end up playing in the tournament right? only in rare cases of multiple suspensions and injuries would you ever need to you use your full roster. The US has only 1 injury and zero suspensions in 3 matches, that's about as bad as it gets for the guy sitting deep in the bench, why waste it on a 27 years old playing in the MLS when you can use it on a kid with enormous potential. Its not rocket science.

And what did you really expect from a 18 years old subbing in for only 2 friendlies? one of them against a strong Mexican side and a game I happen to watch myself, I mean really?

And again, I don't see how this can be a reasonable discussion if your going to continue to undermine the fact that he plays for Bayern's reserve team, and was actually called up to play a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE MATCH, I repeat, a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE MATCH, not some fourth division game, not some irrelevant MLS game, a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE MATCH for what was then the DEFENDING CHAMPS, and you want us to act like that doesn't matter

I think I can count with one hand the amount of American players that were featured in the champions league this past season....But like you said it doesn't matter.

[Man of Steel]

america winning the tournament? lol maybe the hot dog eating tournament, that's until some skinny asian dude takes that away too.

Unnecessary post but I can never pass up an opportunity to use this gif.

[Foye]

Julian Green is the future of American soccer, for those of you who still doubt him

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc_M_g72V8Y[/youtube]

When both Bayern's Pep and German's coach Low see something in you, your a pretty big deal.

Chances Green regularly makes the starting XI of Bayern first team one day are slim-to-none.
That said he will still turn out a good player for someone else.

Hojbjerg is the only player coming through the Bayern youth system/2nd team that has a good chance at the starting XI. The RB spot from Lahm (who apparently rather plays in DM anyway although that is not his best position ) is destined for him to take over. Already played it in the German Cup final against Dortmund at age 18. And he did as well as you could expect.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2S4zjN4JSs[/youtube]

[Matty]

Julian Green is the future of American soccer, for those of you who still doubt him

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc_M_g72V8Y[/youtube]

When both Bayern's Pep and German's coach Low see something in you, your a pretty big deal.

Chances Green regularly makes the starting XI of Bayern first team one day are slim-to-none.
That said he will still turn out a good player for someone else.

Hojbjerg is the only player coming through the Bayern youth system/2nd team that has a good chance at the starting XI. The RB spot from Lahm (who apparently rather plays in DM anyway although that is not his best position ) is destined for him to take over. Already played it in the German Cup final against Dortmund at age 18. And he did as well as you could expect.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2S4zjN4JSs[/youtube]

Yeah Green will most likely get picked up by a mid-tier Bundesliga team like Hamburg or Stuttgart to start his 1st division pro career. Bayern for some reason are reluctant to even let him go on a loan, which only speaks volume to how high they value him as a prospect.

[and1GS]

IDK about Green being the future of our program - it's more complicated than that. I think he's the start of something big. Dual citizenship players choosing the U.S., we have a couple big battles there coming up soon and I expect similar outcomes.

As for us being 'happy to be here'...please, we expected to be here. I did at least. As I said before the cup, it comes down to cohesion, heart and fitness. Portugal had none of those (except for Cristiano and sometime Nani, who played with a lot of heart). Ghana had a couple of these then lost all of them with the whole '**** you pay me' fiasco.

In the earlier stages it's more often about how much you want it - quarters/semis is when cumulative skill level really starts to matter.