Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[rockymac52]

I wouldn't be looking to trade Ryno if I was OKC. But if they were, it would stand to reason that they'd want some wing shooting.

I think if they got a rotation big AND a shooter (plus maybe a pick) they'd consider it, just because they need bodies. If Anderson was making enough for us to send them Nene+Webster, for example, then I'd think they'd have to consider it.

I think if the Pelicans have injuries they might seriously consider an offer of 2 players out of Miller/Webster and Booker during the season. The way their pick is protected they get no help from the draft if they struggle next season. So they probably would make a short-term deal to stay in the play-off hunt.

They wouldn't want Miller. They already have Holiday, Rivers, Roberts (if they re-sign him, which they'd be fools not to), and potentially Russ Smith now as well.

[LyricalRico]

I wouldn't be looking to trade Ryno if I was OKC. But if they were, it would stand to reason that they'd want some wing shooting.

I think if they got a rotation big AND a shooter (plus maybe a pick) they'd consider it, just because they need bodies. If Anderson was making enough for us to send them Nene+Webster, for example, then I'd think they'd have to consider it.

I think if the Pelicans have injuries they might seriously consider an offer of 2 players out of Miller/Webster and Booker during the season. The way their pick is protected they get no help from the draft if they struggle next season. So they probably would make a short-term deal to stay in the play-off hunt.

Wow, I'd forgotten about Booker. We could offer Webster and Booker in a S&T on a cheap 3 year deal ($3-4M per year, with the last year non-guaranteed). Probably would still need to sweeten it a bit.

[payitforward]

I think if they got a rotation big AND a shooter (plus maybe a pick) they'd consider it, just because they need bodies. If Anderson was making enough for us to send them Nene+Webster, for example, then I'd think they'd have to consider it.

I think if the Pelicans have injuries they might seriously consider an offer of 2 players out of Miller/Webster and Booker during the season. The way their pick is protected they get no help from the draft if they struggle next season. So they probably would make a short-term deal to stay in the play-off hunt.

Wow, I'd forgotten about Booker. We could offer Webster and Booker in a S&T on a cheap 3 year deal ($3-4M per year, with the last year non-guaranteed). Probably would still need to sweeten it a bit.

That is, we could do that if Booker were willing to sign such a deal -- is that what you mean?

In that case, why does Booker accept that deal? And once we make him his qualifying offer instead, why doesn't NO prefer to offer him a deal a little better than the one you suggest, and acquire him without having to give up anything at all?

Above all, if you think of Webster as a problem and Booker as if not a problem then at least not a solution to anything, but you think of Anderson as a solution to a problem we have, then please tell me why you think a team is going to take our "problems" and give us a "solution" in return?

On the other hand, I'm sure they'd be willing to give us Austin Rivers and Alex Ajinca in return for Trevor's expiring contract -- would you like that deal? I didn't think so.

Btw, wasn't it just a few months ago that you and others were busy explaining why the contract we offered Martell was just fine -- what a deal; what a great pick up!!

Tell me, were you wrong back then?

[LyricalRico]

Dude, I've put everybody who's ever been in a Wizards uniform in a trade idea post at one time or another. I've done that for fun ever since I joined this board 10+ years ago. So if I do that, I'm must now be viewing that player as a "problem" and somehow contradicting any other positive post I've ever made regarding said player in the past?

LR: "What does everyone think about potentially trading Beal for Player X?"
PIF: "Aha! So are you admitting you were wrong when you said you liked when the team picked Beal at #3? Tell us, and prove it with data!"



In the immortal words of Mark Jackson: "C'mon man, you're better than that!"

[payitforward]

Dude, I've put everybody who's ever been in a Wizards uniform in a trade idea post at one time or another. I've done that for fun ever since I joined this board 10+ years ago. So if I do that, I'm must now be viewing that player as a "problem" and somehow contradicting any other positive post I've ever made regarding said player in the past?

LR: "What does everyone think about potentially trading Beal for Player X?"
PIF: "Aha! So are you admitting you were wrong when you said you liked when the team picked Beal at #3? Tell us, and prove it with data!"



In the immortal words of Mark Jackson: "C'mon man, you're better than that!"

Me be better? Check the mirror mon ami. Or maybe just give me enough benefit of the doubt to consider what I wrote and actually reply to it.

I have no problem with your suggesting we trade anyone on the roster! Martell? Sure. Beal? Absolutely! Wall? 100% yes! If the deal is a good one, if it makes us better, trade any or all of them. Hope that's clear enough!

Moreover, the trade you suggested is a very good deal! Did I sound like I was against it? Like I wouldn't want Anderson for Booker and Webster? I'd be over the top if they did, I just can't see why they would. And *that* is what I said.

I went on to explain *why* I thought they wouldn't -- using the "problem" / "solution" metaphor. And, because Martell's contract is even more of a "problem" now that he has a repeat of back problems and requires surgery, I'd be even happier if NO would make the trade! Much.

Where I went after that is what you don't want to address -- and you are obfuscating to divert attention from it: Martell Webster has had a back problem pretty much his whole career. Yet you thought it was good to re-sign him for 4 years.

Have you changed your mind? Is it "personal" to ask that? I don't mean it that way. I'd just like to know whether you still applaud the move and its terms?

[nuposse04]

I thought webster only had back problems 3 out 9 of his playing seasons...serious ones anyways....Still his contract is haunting us now :/

[LyricalRico]

Moreover, the trade you suggested is a very good deal! Did I sound like I was against it? Like I wouldn't want Anderson for Booker and Webster? I'd be over the top if they did, I just can't see why they would. And *that* is what I said.

I went on to explain *why* I thought they wouldn't -- using the "problem" / "solution" metaphor. And, because Martell's contract is even more of a "problem" now that he has a repeat of back problems and requires surgery, I'd be even happier if NO would make the trade! Much.

Where I went after that is what you don't want to address -- and you are obfuscating to divert attention from it: Martell Webster has had a back problem pretty much his whole career. Yet you thought it was good to re-sign him for 4 years.

Cool, thanks for clarifying. I actually posted that deal before I saw the surgery news, so I was assuming we were sending a healthy Webster (who I still like as a player) and I also conceded that we'd probably need to include more. I was just thinking out loud to advance the "Webster to NOP" discussion we've had for the last couple weeks. Nothing serious, all in fun.

Looking back, my original hope last summer was that the team would use Ariza's expiring for bench help and/or picks (Ariza to Minny for DWill+Barea+pick was one of my fave trade ideas), and then we'd get enough out of Porter that he and Webster would have been enough at SF to still make a playoff run. Then we go into the summer with max cap space, multiple picks, and at least 4 games of playoff experience.

What I wasn't expecting was the combination of Ariza having a career year PLUS Porter being completely non-existent. And the Webster deal was also months before the Okafor injury, which unexpectedly impacted both the draft and our cap outlook.

The way things worked out makes it more likely that Ariza and Gortat are brought back on lucrative deals, which in turn makes the Webster contract a potential "problem". But I still think bringing Martell back was the right call at the time. Sure, you'd always rather pay a guy less than more but it's still a sub-MLE contract for a good shooter that can play two positions. And if he misses a ton of games due to this injury, then they can get out of the last year.

Let's see where the team goes from here.

[gambitx777]

I've been thinking about a sign and trade with the suns. ariza for 9 mill nd 4 years to the suns for TJ warren?

[Dat2U]

Not enough people hate on Anderson for his truly awful defense. Sure, the offense is awesome, but the pathetic defense almost counteracts it. He might be worse than Antawn Jamison on D in his prime.

No.

[Koorverfor3]

Sixers fan but John Wall Supporter here. I think you guys should look to the Bobcats as a trade partner. Have two high upside bigs on their bench.
Biyombo averaged about 3ppg and 5 rebs 1 block in only 13mpg...ridiculous 8/13/2.5 per 36. I don't see him being able to ever co exist with Al Jefferson. He would look great with a skilled big like Nene.

Or Cody Zeller? Wasn't really high on him before the draft and he proved me right by laying an egg for 2/3 of the season. But he really turned it on the last 2 months or 25 games of the season when the Bobcats where in the thick of the playoff hunt playing meaningful games. Vonleh being drafted makes him expandable.

One of them could be attained by giving up a shooter like Webster or something. Thoughts?

[payitforward]

Moreover, the trade you suggested is a very good deal! Did I sound like I was against it? Like I wouldn't want Anderson for Booker and Webster? I'd be over the top if they did, I just can't see why they would. And *that* is what I said.

I went on to explain *why* I thought they wouldn't -- using the "problem" / "solution" metaphor. And, because Martell's contract is even more of a "problem" now that he has a repeat of back problems and requires surgery, I'd be even happier if NO would make the trade! Much.

Where I went after that is what you don't want to address -- and you are obfuscating to divert attention from it: Martell Webster has had a back problem pretty much his whole career. Yet you thought it was good to re-sign him for 4 years.

Cool, thanks for clarifying. I actually posted that deal before I saw the surgery news, so I was assuming we were sending a healthy Webster (who I still like as a player) and I also conceded that we'd probably need to include more. I was just thinking out loud to advance the "Webster to NOP" discussion we've had for the last couple weeks. Nothing serious, all in fun.

Looking back, my original hope last summer was that the team would use Ariza's expiring for bench help and/or picks (Ariza to Minny for DWill+Barea+pick was one of my fave trade ideas), and then we'd get enough out of Porter that he and Webster would have been enough at SF to still make a playoff run. Then we go into the summer with max cap space, multiple picks, and at least 4 games of playoff experience.

What I wasn't expecting was the combination of Ariza having a career year PLUS Porter being completely non-existent. And the Webster deal was also months before the Okafor injury, which unexpectedly impacted both the draft and our cap outlook.

The way things worked out makes it more likely that Ariza and Gortat are brought back on lucrative deals, which in turn makes the Webster contract a potential "problem". But I still think bringing Martell back was the right call at the time. Sure, you'd always rather pay a guy less than more but it's still a sub-MLE contract for a good shooter that can play two positions. And if he misses a ton of games due to this injury, then they can get out of the last year.

Let's see where the team goes from here.

To continue our amble towards mutual clarity -- I *love* Martell Webster! I have really liked many things he's shown as a person and a player, and I'm glad he's a Wizard. I also don't care whether we overpaid him a little when we brought him back (which I too would have done). In fact, I didn't think we did overpay him, not based on his productivity for us. What I meant to be questioning was whether we were right to sign him for 4 years (even w/ a conditional non-guarantee in the 4th) given his injury history.

But, even from that pov it wasn't a big deal risk, and I overstated my reaction to it in my last post. The frustration comes from elsewhere -- from the pattern of Ernie signing veterans coming off injury. It's one thing if you get a productivity bargain (which Martell proved to be), but when you look at the whole group of them, it's a different picture.

Nene has played 1500-1600 minutes a season at $16m a year. And Okafor going down cost us not only a chance at a very good player out of this deep draft but also put us in a position where we basically paid twice his salary for him! We had to take on, and then waive, a bunch of other guys.

That move outlined starkly the difference between doing an effective rebuild -- what we made so much easier for Phoenix by way of that trade -- and the "mediocrity now -- mediocrity or bust!" strategy Ted and Ernie have embraced.

I'm sure you remember the many times in the mid-00's when Ernie used to say "when we are healthy we can compete with anybody." Getting "bargains" on injury-prone vets is a pattern with him. Not a winning pattern.

[payitforward]

Sixers fan but John Wall Supporter here. I think you guys should look to the Bobcats as a trade partner. Have two high upside bigs on their bench.
Biyombo averaged about 3ppg and 5 rebs 1 block in only 13mpg...ridiculous 8/13/2.5 per 36. I don't see him being able to ever co exist with Al Jefferson. He would look great with a skilled big like Nene.

Or Cody Zeller? Wasn't really high on him before the draft and he proved me right by laying an egg for 2/3 of the season. But he really turned it on the last 2 months or 25 games of the season when the Bobcats where in the thick of the playoff hunt playing meaningful games. Vonleh being drafted makes him expandable.

One of them could be attained by giving up a shooter like Webster or something. Thoughts?

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and for the suggestions.

And congratulations to you guys -- you have a very talented young GM, and man is he changing the tune in Philly in a hurry. And his stare-down "I win" trade w/ Orlando was amazing! A first and second round pick in return for dropping from 10 to 12 in a deep draft? That is some kind of work. All the more given he didn't want Payton or McDermott anyway -- wanted a top-talent to stash and got him.

[Ruzious]

Sixers fan but John Wall Supporter here. I think you guys should look to the Bobcats as a trade partner. Have two high upside bigs on their bench.
Biyombo averaged about 3ppg and 5 rebs 1 block in only 13mpg...ridiculous 8/13/2.5 per 36. I don't see him being able to ever co exist with Al Jefferson. He would look great with a skilled big like Nene.

Or Cody Zeller? Wasn't really high on him before the draft and he proved me right by laying an egg for 2/3 of the season. But he really turned it on the last 2 months or 25 games of the season when the Bobcats where in the thick of the playoff hunt playing meaningful games. Vonleh being drafted makes him expandable.

One of them could be attained by giving up a shooter like Webster or something. Thoughts?

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and for the suggestions.

And congratulations to you guys -- you have a very talented young GM, and man is he changing the tune in Philly in a hurry. And his stare-down "I win" trade w/ Orlando was amazing! A first and second round pick in return for dropping from 10 to 12 in a deep draft? That is some kind of work. All the more given he didn't want Payton or McDermott anyway -- wanted a top-talent to stash and got him.

The collection of parts their accumulating is interesting. What will be more interesting is to see if they can fit the parts into a team that actually plays for them - and how many years it takes for that to happen and how long their fans are willing to wait. The MCW interview right after the Payton interview was priceless - you could hear the wtf is happening here tone in his voice when answering the question about the possibility of him being traded.

I'd be happy to trade for either Zeller or BizB, but I doubt Webster has any trade value.

[payitforward]

Sixers fan but John Wall Supporter here. I think you guys should look to the Bobcats as a trade partner. Have two high upside bigs on their bench.
Biyombo averaged about 3ppg and 5 rebs 1 block in only 13mpg...ridiculous 8/13/2.5 per 36. I don't see him being able to ever co exist with Al Jefferson. He would look great with a skilled big like Nene.

Or Cody Zeller? Wasn't really high on him before the draft and he proved me right by laying an egg for 2/3 of the season. But he really turned it on the last 2 months or 25 games of the season when the Bobcats where in the thick of the playoff hunt playing meaningful games. Vonleh being drafted makes him expandable.

One of them could be attained by giving up a shooter like Webster or something. Thoughts?

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and for the suggestions.

And congratulations to you guys -- you have a very talented young GM, and man is he changing the tune in Philly in a hurry. And his stare-down "I win" trade w/ Orlando was amazing! A first and second round pick in return for dropping from 10 to 12 in a deep draft? That is some kind of work. All the more given he didn't want Payton or McDermott anyway -- wanted a top-talent to stash and got him.

The collection of parts their accumulating is interesting. What will be more interesting is to see if they can fit the parts into a team that actually plays for them - and how many years it takes for that to happen and how long their fans are willing to wait. The MCW interview right after the Payton interview was priceless - you could hear the wtf is happening here tone in his voice when answering the question about the possibility of him being traded.

I'd be happy to trade for either Zeller or BizB, but I doubt Webster has any trade value.

I thought the question to MC-W was rude. Not to mention pointless. And I thought his "wtf is happening here tone" was more in response to an idiotic question than anything else -- given that you aren't allowed to respond by saying "what a dumb question!" to a media person.

Ruzious -- I'm kind of surprised by your "parts" vs. "team that actually plays" distinction, tho maybe you meant "actually plays" in the sense of Noel and Embiid actually being recovered from their injuries (obviously a question). But, still, those aren't "parts" they have, those are basketball players, persons. And, to me, the way to get a better "team that actually plays" is to get better basketball players, as many as you can.

We'll have to see how good Noel is once he's on the court. We know MC-W can be very good. Sims and Thompson have outperformed expectations -- and also been better than e.g. Seraphin and Singleton, though neither of those facts is any big deal! And, at least from my POV, they absolutely cleaned up in this year's draft. They had way too many picks to absorb, but instead of selling them for cash -- or even trading them away -- they used the #10 to get the #12 to stash, a R1 pick in '17, and a (likely quite high) R2 pick next year! And *still* managed to add Embiid and 3 other guys who could make the team -- if even one of them develops into a good player... wow, that's a haul!

[Koorverfor3]

Once Webster is able to be traded what about him straight up for Ray McCallum, Derrick Williams

McCallum was impressive for a 2nd round pick. He's a Pg with decent size (6'3) and solid outside shooting. He can fill the void for that needed combo guard.
Derrick Williams has potential but doesn't really fit in with a crowded Kings front court. At the worst he expires at the end of the year.

Think this would be a simple way to stock up the bench, and the Kings need shooters

[verbal8]

Once Webster is able to be traded what about him straight up for Ray McCallum, Derrick Williams

McCallum was impressive for a 2nd round pick. He's a Pg with decent size (6'3) and solid outside shooting. He can fill the void for that needed combo guard.
Derrick Williams has potential but doesn't really fit in with a crowded Kings front court. At the worst he expires at the end of the year.

Think this would be a simple way to stock up the bench, and the Kings need shooters

At this point I think the Wizards would be lucky to get back Jason Thompson for Webster I don't see any way of getting an expiring contract and an incentive.

[nate33]

Does anybody think Philly would consider a Noel for Porter swap? Maybe around the trade deadline after Porter has demonstrated he can play and Embid is healthy?

[Dark Faze]

Does anybody think Philly would consider a Noel for Porter swap? Maybe around the trade deadline after Porter has demonstrated he can play and Embid is healthy?

ernie would never admit a mistake like that

[montestewart]

Does anybody think Philly would consider a Noel for Porter swap? Maybe around the trade deadline after Porter has demonstrated he can play and Embid is healthy?

ernie would never admit a mistake like that

Trading Porter after Webster goes down would seem to maximize Ariza's leverage with the Wizards, and leave them ****ed if he walks. Even with Porter's unspectacular rookie year, I don't know enough about where Noel is now health-wise to judge if that's a good deal, but it would be pretty damn sad if face saving was the determinant in nixing such a trade.

On the other hand, if Noel can actually take quality rotation minutes and they resign Gortat, Ariza, and Gooden, they have:
Wall/Miller
Beal/GRJ/Webster (eventually, hopefully)
Ariza/GRJ/Webster (eventually, hopefully)
Nene/Gooden/Noel
Gortat/Noel/Seraphin

That looks OK for a start. Still have to move Nene somehow. Still need a replacement for Miller. Thin on wing players to start, and still need some depth up front, but that team could make the playoffs.

[verbal8]

Nate was referring to an in-season trade. Presumably at that point the Wizards would have resigned Ariza and have Webster back.

Does anybody think Philly would consider a Noel for Porter swap? Maybe around the trade deadline after Porter has demonstrated he can play and Embid is healthy?

ernie would never admit a mistake like that

Trading Porter after Webster goes down would seem to maximize Ariza's leverage with the Wizards, and leave them ****ed if he walks. Even with Porter's unspectacular rookie year, I don't know enough about where Noel is now health-wise to judge if that's a good deal, but it would be pretty damn sad if face saving was the determinant in nixing such a trade.

On the other hand, if Noel can actually take quality rotation minutes and they resign Gortat, Ariza, and Gooden, they have:
Wall/Miller
Beal/GRJ/Webster (eventually, hopefully)
Ariza/GRJ/Webster (eventually, hopefully)
Nene/Gooden/Noel
Gortat/Noel/Seraphin

That looks OK for a start. Still have to move Nene somehow. Still need a replacement for Miller. Thin on wing players to start, and still need some depth up front, but that team could make the playoffs.