Draft Day/Today's Trade Rumors

[jeffjtk1234]

Man your man crush on IT is alarming. Just remember you said with IT, Gay, and DMC we were .500. Yeah thats something we want to strive for! .500! Sooner or later you will see that a team built around IT, Gay, and DMC isnt going to get is where we want to be. IT has a high usage rate, isnt a great distributor, or a good enough defender. We really, really need a defensive minded PG with good court vision and some size who can score but doesnt require the ball in his hands as much to do so. That is not IT.

I have a man crush on IT, Gay, and Cousins together in the starting lineup. IT, Gay, and Cousins played far above .500. Ben McLemore, by himself, dragged the winning percentage down, and the bench sank it. The lineup stats show this, and so does the eye test.

We really need a defensive minded SG who isn't hungry for shots and does all the intangibles.

where are the stats you are referring to? IT Gay and DMC together played .500 ball. They weren't "well above .500"

[teerfour+40LG]

where are the stats you are referring to? IT Gay and DMC together played .500 ball. They weren't "well above .500"

Right here, baby.


http://www.82games.com/1314/1314SAC2.HTM

Here you can see more of Ben's negative impact on IT-Gay-Cousins.


This is not only apparent in stats. Anyone who watches the games can see it too, as shown by this guy:

How do you teach a guy court awareness if he still hasn't learned it by now?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ab1_UEQJq0[/youtube]

[SactownHrtBrks8]

What we really need was for people to hit open shots! How many wide open shots were missed last year? The assist numbers would have gone up if some of those shots went in.

Again, take this lineup.

IT - McLemore - Gay - Thompson - Cousins.

The lineup stats show that when you replace Ben McLemore with Marcus Thornton, who is a slightly better defender, rebounder, and passer, and is JUST AS BAD OF A SHOOTER, this lineup improves significantly.

We do not need someone at SG who makes shots any better than Ben or MT23 did last year.

That lineup was barely .500. Is that what you think are team should aim for this year? Because I do not believe that is what the ownership, general manager and coach are aiming for.

If Nik Stauskis gets to training camp and becomes a starter (Not saying this going to happen), that makes him a fourth option on the floor with those 3 guys. With all three of those guys drawing so much attention, you want a guy that is going to be money from the outside to knock down shots and spread the floor. He also is a quality passer. There are fourth options in this league that can average 12-16 a game playing off their star and help the team win games.

If IT returns, those three guys will have a full training camp together to get on the same page. You hope Pete D addresses our need to add a shot blocker at PF. You hope Mike Malone gets them playing good team defense. You also hope IT and DeMarcus make even strides as players

[bleeds_purple]

You can cherry pick "stats" all you want but anyone who actually watched the games will tell you Thomas isn't the answer at PG. How many wasted possessions did we have where Cousins had excellent post position but Thomas was unable to feed him the ball? How many times did opposing guards shoot over Thomas like he wasn't even there when he was in "perfect" defensive position. Good teams play a winning brand of team ball. Thomas is an iso-guard who doesn't really do much other than drive and shoot. I like Thomas as a sixth man but he cannot be our starter.

On a broader point, how many teams with ball dominant point guards not named Magic Johnson (6'9) end up winning titles? How many win with point guards who bring the ball up, give it to the play maker, spread the floor, make threes, and play defense. This is partly why I was so disappointed we passed up on Payton a.k.a. the Glove 2.0, among others.

[SacKingZZZ]

Mario Chalmers is not the kind of PG we need. He's an ok defender at times, but he's not very good offensively. Might have been the worst starting PG in the league. RAPM suggests he was a slightly negative impact player last year. He'll probably be even worse once he leaves MIA.

Plus-minus is a garbage stat. He's more than an OK defender but he's a potential cheap guy with experience who will defend and not ask to control the offense. This team is more bloated today than yesterday, anyone willing to stay out of the way and elbow a fool instead is much welcome.

Would you rather have Chalmers instead of Livingston or Hinrich? I'd take either one over Chalmers. I don't think he's garbage, just think he's a limited ball handler, playmaker and scorer. You have to give him open 3s and limit how much he handles the ball.

I've brought up these four names as options quite a while ago: Livingston, Chalmers, Hinrich, and Pat Beverley. I just think Chalmers is probably going to end up at the most likely to land due to lack of overall interest in his current team and other teams. Probably rather have Beverley over them all considering all factors involved with where this team stands today but I don't know if Houston is keen on letting him go. Now that they are going hard after space it's more likely they might but you can't really expect it because his team option is so low. That's what you want around Cousins and Gay, guys who will hit open 3's. That's why they drafted Stauskas, although he is more talented than just that obviously.

[SactownHrtBrks8]

You can cherry pick "stats" all you want but anyone who actually watched the games will tell you Thomas isn't the answer at PG. How many wasted possessions did we have where Cousins had excellent post position but Thomas was unable to feed him the ball? How many times did opposing guards shoot over Thomas like he wasn't even there when he was in "perfect" defensive position. Good teams play a winning brand of team ball. Thomas is an iso-guard who doesn't really do much other than drive and shoot. I like Thomas as a sixth man but he cannot be our starter.

On a broader point, how many teams with ball dominant point guards not named Magic Johnson (6'9) end up winning titles? How many win with point guards who bring the ball up, give it to the play maker, spread the floor, make threes, and play defense. This is partly why I was so disappointed we passed up on Payton a.k.a. the Glove 2.0, among others.

I agree. I liked this 18 ppg off the bench before we trade Vasquez last year. I thought it add a different dimension to our team when we came in with the second unit.

The only record I care about is 28-54 and improving that.

[SacKingZZZ]

I would be 100% behind a veteran if we didn't just use up two of our lotto picks to get SGs. This team has proven again and again that we don't have any idea how to draft a young player, regardless of who's the GM. Cousins was a godsend and even then, we almost screwed it up.

I hope there are more moves planned. Otherwise we are facing a similar situation like Trob all over again, just letting the player's value rot away on the bench. The moment we drafted Nik, Bmac's value took a major hit.

This. Either BMac's value took a huge hit, or Stauskas' value took a huge hit, or both of them took a big hit. Either both will get devalued or one of two will become significantly devalued.

Devils advocate here. I was thinking about Ben and one thing you have to give the kid credit for is the improvement he did make from summer league to training camp. He could hardly handle the rock without fumbling it away and once he came into camp while he wasn't JWill he was eons better. They are going into this with the faith that he will continue to improve and there is already evidence that there is a chance. They think he can defend 1's with Nik next to him. I like gimmicky stuff so it could be interesting and if it did work and Ben can remake himself, I know a gamble, but if he can it could work in some ways. Theoretically if they eliminate IT from the picture and spread his shots to both Ben and Nik they won't both look terrible. Now the question is whether they'll stick to it and let these guys work it out if it doesn't hit the ground running. And that is the huge problem when you are trying to win now and develop players at the same time. It's a recipe for disaster more often than not, but it could work. Probably worth a shot at this point if they don't intend on making any moves there.

[SacKingZZZ]

The notion remains that Ray and Nik still will most likely get the same mins roughly off the bench vs starting as well. I think the others on the court improve what they can do with them in these roles with the players they share court time with.

Now Nik could be a bust, and Ray may be nothing more than a 2-3 and out of the league fella, but until this roster gets balanced we have little to lose.

We just don't have the funds to build around an IT/Cuz/Gay core right now, if we even keep Thomas around. Making use of what we have.

Then, I think we are both on the same wavelength which further befuddles me as to why pick Stauskas with Vonleh on the board; if the Kings were going to pick a guard, it should have been Payton. Then, sending IT to the bench would've made a whole lot of sense.

I've got to think they saw Vonleh as raw and take time to develop, with their eyes on moving Mclemore + Thompson/Landry for a shot blocker like Sanders or Smith.

Vonleh is a gamble, that's why he slipped. He has a good shot to be a 20 and 10 guy or stay what he is, a 10 and 10 guy. I just would have thought with where the Kings stand at the very least a stretch 4 was as seamless a fit as you can get.

[SacKingZZZ]

He has the athletic tools to become a good defender - Danny Green is a what we should be molding him into anyway.

Put another way with his current non-existent handles and shaky jumper he better at least become a good defender. The problem is McLemore just seems like a very low-IQ in general so that may be his biggest impediment. Stauskas at least seems to be an intelligent person.

You need a very good knowledge of the game (high IQ) or a natural defensive instinct in order to be a solider defender. I don't think McLemore has either of those things. Just because you are the most athletic guy in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't read your opponent and be able to stay a half step ahead of them nor does athleticism prevent you from biting on the wrong fakes.

While he hasn't shown an immediate understanding of defense, it's impossible to fully judge any rookie defensively. That's always the area where the adjustment is most difficult. I said this when he was drafted and it remains true, there is nothing athletically that says he can't be a top notch defender. With that said, there aren't many true SG's who can consistently defend PG's and shut them down. The odds aren't in his favor bit it could work.

[SacKingZZZ]

How do you teach a guy court awareness if he still hasn't learned it by now?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ab1_UEQJq0[/youtube]

The Spurs though? C'mon dude, wide eyed rookie going against that flow isn't really a totally fair assessment. haha. The idea is he'll improve, it can happen. If it doesn't they need to be prepared to move quick though.

[SacKingZZZ]

You can cherry pick "stats" all you want but anyone who actually watched the games will tell you Thomas isn't the answer at PG. How many wasted possessions did we have where Cousins had excellent post position but Thomas was unable to feed him the ball? How many times did opposing guards shoot over Thomas like he wasn't even there when he was in "perfect" defensive position. Good teams play a winning brand of team ball. Thomas is an iso-guard who doesn't really do much other than drive and shoot. I like Thomas as a sixth man but he cannot be our starter.

On a broader point, how many teams with ball dominant point guards not named Magic Johnson (6'9) end up winning titles? How many win with point guards who bring the ball up, give it to the play maker, spread the floor, make threes, and play defense. This is partly why I was so disappointed we passed up on Payton a.k.a. the Glove 2.0, among others.

The other problem is you eventually have to solve your personnel issues and with the last two drafts that pretty much narrowed it down to 2 positions and they probably both need to be improved now more than before.

[bleeds_purple]

I agree. I liked this 18 ppg off the bench before we trade Vasquez last year. I thought it add a different dimension to our team when we came in with the second unit.

The only record I care about is 28-54 and improving that.

Exactly. When Thomas was coming off the bench I thought he was perfect for us - instant offense and always making an impact. It just doesn't translate to a starting unit though. When the game starts out we should be looking to feed Cousins in the post and establish a defensive tone, Thomas is just not meant to play that roll.

The other problem is you eventually have to solve your personnel issues and with the last two drafts that pretty much narrowed it down to 2 positions and they probably both need to be improved now more than before.

Ostensibly we are pretty well covered at 2/3/5 as well as 6th man which is equally important in my eyes - so as you say that leaves the 1/4 as our weak points.

With respect to PG I think we have a lot of options right now: see if McCallum is legit, try to obtain a free agent (I like the names floating around here especially Livingston), and while not being a starter Thomas can definitely give us quality minutes at the PG.

So as I see it our biggest hole moving forward is PF which ironically we have probably the most money invested into at this juncture (too lazy to look it up). I'd like to see Williams establish a more consistent shot and see if we can't play him as a stretch four off the bench. Landry I just really don't see a future with and I'd rather start Thompson because assuming our PF will get minimal touches (likely) Thompson is probably better option at that spot.


Ultimately, the problem is that at this point we basically need Cousins to turn into an MVP candidate, Gay to continue playing the best ball of career, and one of our SGs to pan out, just to be competitive for a bottom seed. But I think there's higher chances we end outside the top 10 as compared to making the playoffs in the next few years.

[jeffjtk1234]

Beverley would be a great PG option for us next to Stauskas. I also like Livingston but I like a Stauskas Beverly backcourt a lot. I would like to keep IT tho as a 6th man. I just dont feel confident in an IT/Stauskas backcourt.

[bleeds_purple]

Beverley would be a great PG option for us next to Stauskas. I also like Livingston but I like a Stauskas Beverly backcourt a lot. I would like to keep IT tho as a 6th man. I just dont feel confident in an IT/Stauskas backcourt.

I like Beverley a lot. When your PG can pressure 90 feet every possession it gives the other team fits.

[408Kings]

I tend to agree with your analogy Blind Prophet. What you're saying is a projection however and not a fact. It has not happened, and you could be wrong. If Stauskas is a good, not great, but good to very good athlete I think we may have a star player. He has a lot of tools. It falls apart though if his athleticism isn't there. I don't think he and Jimmer are the same player, but guys like Reddick, Morrison, Fredette, have two things in common:

1. They are white. We all know white men can't jump! Seriously you NBA analyst will almost never sell a white guy on athleticism. The draft is about selling a potential athlete and he becomes a star NBA player. You can't sell a white guy on athleticism.

2. The white guy is always the shooter.

This is why I like to do my research because looking at him the only question I really have is what kind of athlete is he? He looks better than Ben already. Ben can jump through the roof and has great athleticism but his skill level isn't there. Stauskas has a very high skill level and a very high IQ. I was extremely impressed on the way he handled interviews.

I'm starting to warm up to the pick.

One trait of the new NBA player is length and speed trump height. Vonleh has a 7'4" wingspan

His lateral/agility test was actually average to good from what I've heard, has a good vertical, But his arm length is shorter than you would like to see.

Check this out and compare him to Kobe for example.

http://www.nba.com/draft/2014/prospects ... ft:tracker

An inch taller in height, but gives up 3 inches in reach, and smaller hands.

I think his length is fine because he has height. Guys test and play at different speeds. I really think if he can show he can handle lead guard responsibilities and do so at a high level we have something.

I don't think it's necessarily his length. He's just lost on def sometimes and he needs to hit the weights and get stronger. He's not as aware of what's going on defensively as opposed to offensively. Almost seems like 2 different players. Even when he's staying with his man, he gets pushed around/off easily:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWFgomoRy0&feature=youtu.be&t=8m55s[/youtube]

[HUBlackstar83]

Looks like we got us a Wiggins just night THE one lol. I didn't even know Andrew had a brother. He was not mentioned during any pre-draft stuff.

http://aroyalpain.com/2014/06/27/sacram ... k-wiggins/

[bleeds_purple]

What do you guys think about a potential trade with New Orleans:

Landry/Terry/Williams/McLemore for Gordon/Anderson

I feel like we need a three point shooter next to Cousins and Gay at the PF spot. Both those guys take up the middle of the floor a lot and need the post open. Gordon is the type of guy who we can buy low on as long as were willing to bite the bullet on his contract.

I don't know if the Pelicans would be willing to do the deal unless they were looking to save money and clear out space for Tyreke and Holiday to play. But I did read on the wiretap they were shopping Anderson.

[teerfour+40LG]

I like Beverley a lot. When your PG can pressure 90 feet every possession it gives the other team fits.

Oh yeah, the Blazers had a hell of a time with Beverley holding Damian Lillard to 25, 6, and 6 on 46% shooting and nearly 50% three point shooting in the playoffs.

[bleeds_purple]

Oh yeah, the Blazers had a hell of a time with Beverley holding Damian Lillard to 25, 6, and 6 on 46% shooting and nearly 50% three point shooting.

When a guy is unconscious from the three point line there isn't going to be any sort of defense that will stop that. But yea you're totally right it makes sense to judge him based off a hand full of games against a premier PG while ignoring everything else.

[408Kings]

Beverley would be a great PG option for us next to Stauskas. I also like Livingston but I like a Stauskas Beverly backcourt a lot. I would like to keep IT tho as a 6th man. I just dont feel confident in an IT/Stauskas backcourt.

I like Beverley a lot. When your PG can pressure 90 feet every possession it gives the other team fits.

I'm on board with that. Plus average defender and main offensive job is getting the ball to your best player and hitting the open 3.

If Bmac can come close to playing like Beverly, I'd take that. After watching him for a full season though, he just doesn't seem to get it on defense. Sags off his man too much (to help when he doesn't need to), doesn't consistently challenge shots, goes for fakes, and just isn't aware of what's going on.