Coaching Change Thread (Nets Hire Lionel Hollins)

[MrDollarBills]

I figured it would be best to start a seperate thread from the thread that carl started, since that became a circle jerk for non Net fans to applaud the guy for being spot on.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/sportando/status/483164634137260032[/tweet]

I hope this is true. We may end looking like bandits.

I'll take that hire. The problem is, I have yet to see anyone seriously discuss the impact that this will have on our roster. We can talk about how much of a scumbag Kidd is all we want but what happens now with KG, PP, Livingston? This is terrible.

We had an identity established and it seems like we drafted players to fit the system and then Kidd pulls this crap. He looks like a piece of **** but this makes the mess look very unorganized and honestly foolish.

The one thing I will do is applaud the ownership for telling him to **** off. That is one thing I'm not upset about. If he wanted to obtain power and muscle King out I'm cool with that because King has screwed us time and time again with his poor decision making, but there's a way to go about thing and how Kidd did it was beyond all comprehension.

[kerry kittles]

KG has two options retire, or take $10 million. I think he takes the money, He's probably ecstatic Kidd's gone too with his rigid minutes restriction,
Pierce - I hope takes a bloated 1 year contract. We can still offer him the most having his bird rights.
Livingston - I think the change would have the biggest impact on him. He was likely leaving anyway.
Blatche - can kick rocks

The three 2nd rounds picks? With or without Kidd there's a good chance 2 don't make the roster. The last two picks in the draft making a team is a complete longshot. This is not a big deal.

As far as Kidd is concerned he's a mediocre and a horrible human being:
Postives of his 1 year:
Establishing an identity: biggest positive - forced a number of turnovers, Kidd deserves credit

Player development - we can have disagreements here, but I'll give him credit for Livingston's play on both sides of the ball. Its really hard to judge Mirza and Plumlee. Was Mirza's play more of a matter of receiving consistent minutes or Kidd. Was Plumlee just a good player that was undervalued in the draft and would've played well with a different coach at the helm? His brother played surprisingly well in Phoenix this year. And who do we credit Kidd or KG? Here is what Plumlee said about KG [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e--Z9_aJnqY[/youtube]

Being able to go against one of the All Time Greats in practice, usually in the top 10-20 range on most All Time lists, has to help. He's the consummate teammate and players love playing him. This is the reason I hope KG is back.

Negatives:
On the opposite end of the player development spectrum what the hell was with telling Blatche, a knucklehead, the 3 point shot is something to add to your game Get his ass in the paint where he has a nice array of post moves. Blatche definitely regressed this past year.

Rotations/minute restrictions: What the hell was with these hockey rotations in the playoffs. Sitting all 5 starters beside Livingston was assine. Miami never rested the big 3 together. KG's strict minute restriction was very frustrating.

End of the game: ball stuck, everything was ISO plays off timeouts. We were horrible executing at the end of games in the playoffs, Kidd should shoulder that blame.

At the end of the day he was a mediocre coach. I gave him a B because it was his first year. Would've been a C if it wasn't.
Can we get better coaches than him? Yes
Based on what I read I see the following list of candidates:
Messina- mentioned above
Jackson - mentioned by Carl
Lionel Hollins - mentioned by Howard Beck
George Karl - mentioned by Howard Beck

Also rumored that two college coaches with Championship pedigree not named Calipari So if I had to guess:
Coach K - will never leave. doubt it's him

Izzo - maybe? Turned down the Pistons, and TWolves. The Nets position is better, but doubt he leaves.

Boeheim - is local, a NY guy,but I hope we're not interviewing. Think he's overrated and he's older, how many years would he coach. Don't think he leaves either, probably not a candidate.

Donovan - born and raised on Long Island, Championship pedigree. Very likely be a candidate.

Ollie - just signed a big contract extension with UConn. It would be a Kidd type hire in the sense he's young, a former player, and not many years of experience. Though he does have great experience in those limited number of years. Wouldn't be totally opposed to it, but he lacks experience which they seem to want now. KD spoke highly of him when he was an assistant in OKC "Kevin Ollie, he was a game changer for us. I think he changed the whole culture in Oklahoma City. Just his mind set, professionalism, every single day. And we all watched that, and we all wanted to be like that. It rubbed off on Russell Westbrook, myself, Jeff Green, James Harden. And then everybody who comes through now, it’s the standard that you’ve got to live up to as a Thunder player. And it all started with Kevin Ollie.”

Hoiberg - Has done a hell of job in 4 years at Iowa State - doesn't have the Championship pedigree though. His buyout to become an NBA coach is just $500k. The system he has installed there has made the team, fun exciting to watch. Young, former player as well so similar to Ollie in the regard.

Name not mentioned: Jerry Sloan - great coach. Was said to be interested in the job last summer and he and Kidd seemed to have brushed aside any problems in the past

[Prokorov]

For me, there are pros and cons.... after reading the updates this morning, I'm really frustrated because I really loved the direction kidd had for this team:

--One of the final straws for Nets ownership came around the trade deadline. Kidd advocated for a trade with the Bucks that would sent Brook Lopez and Mirza Teletovic to Milwaukee for the deeply troubled Larry Sanders and Ersan Ilyasova. The suggestion, mostly about Kidd's belief that Lopez couldn't fit in his system, was considered and rejected by the Nets brass.

--Kidd was angered by the Nets decision to trade for Marcus Thornton rather than Jarrett Jack, who he believed would have been a better fit. Nets ownership believe that Kidd's ultimate ambition was to dump Billy King, with whom ownership remains quite satisfied. Kidd believes that King and Nets ownership do not have a long term plan and are too opportunistic.

I personally disagree with jack over thornton, but thats more 50/50. The other stuff kidd was all spot on. Lopez needing to move and not fitting. Needing a smallball PF who could also rebound and more defense at center like sanders. King being an awful GM... and the most worrisome, team not having a long term plan, which could mean the team doesnt have a grasp on a path to land stars in 2016... very scary.

Other then that, im thrilled he is gone. Hated his guts personally, thought he was a poor coach when it came to the actualy ingame stuff, and thought he enabled deron a bit. The compensation will be great. we need picks bad. getting a new coach will be great, likely get an upgrade.

Biggest problem is this: The new coach will likely be made well aware they are COACH and not GM. It wasnt necessarily a bad thing that kidd pushed for much needed roster moves and claled out an incompetant GM. the more you read, the more this sounds like Kidd being tired king is killing the teams chances to get better.

Can you imagine this squad:

Dwill | Jack
Johnson | Anderson | Markell Brown
Livingston | Kirilenko
Pierce | Ilyasova
Garnett | Sanders | Plumlee

KG retires you just slide sanders and plumlee over. Sanders leaks 10 million into 2016, but he is a guy you keep long term so its worth it and you can still max durant easily. not a big ilyasova fan, but i can see how he fits and why people like him.

[SpeedyG]

Can we get better coaches than him? Yes
Based on what I read I see the following list of candidates:
Messina- mentioned above
Jackson - mentioned by Carl
Lionel Hollins - mentioned by Howard Beck
George Karl - mentioned by Howard Beck

Also rumored that two college coaches with Championship pedigree not named Calipari So if I had to guess:
Coach K - will never leave. doubt it's him

Izzo - maybe? Turned down the Pistons, and TWolves. The Nets position is better, but doubt he leaves.

Boeheim - is local, a NY guy,but I hope we're not interviewing. Think he's overrated and he's older, how many years would he coach. Don't think he leaves either, probably not a candidate.

Donovan - born and raised on Long Island, Championship pedigree. Very likely be a candidate.

Ollie - just signed a big contract extension with UConn. It would be a Kidd type hire in the sense he's young, a former player, and not many years of experience. Though he does have great experience in those limited number of years. Wouldn't be totally opposed to it, but he lacks experience which they seem to want now. KD spoke highly of him when he was an assistant in OKC "Kevin Ollie, he was a game changer for us. I think he changed the whole culture in Oklahoma City. Just his mind set, professionalism, every single day. And we all watched that, and we all wanted to be like that. It rubbed off on Russell Westbrook, myself, Jeff Green, James Harden. And then everybody who comes through now, it’s the standard that you’ve got to live up to as a Thunder player. And it all started with Kevin Ollie.”

Hoiberg - Has done a hell of job in 4 years at Iowa State - doesn't have the Championship pedigree though. His buyout to become an NBA coach is just $500k. The system he has installed there has made the team, fun exciting to watch. Young, former player as well so similar to Ollie in the regard.

Name not mentioned: Jerry Sloan - great coach. Was said to be interested in the job last summer and he and Kidd seemed to have brushed aside any problems in the past

I don't want a part of Mark Jackson.

Messina has a reputation in Europe and has had Asst. Coaching experience in the NBA, but he's still a question mark as the lead guy.

Hollins was a guy a lot of people liked, even if he had similarities to Avery Johnson and has his own issues. He's not a bad choice for a team wanting to be competitive now with a bunch of older players. But I question whether he can develop the young guys, which we'll badly need since we don't have real assets to improve the roster.

Karl is too old, and would be an even shorter-term hire than the other names on this list.

As far as the college coaches...Coach K isn't going anywhere. I don't think Izzo is either.

It could be Boeheim, Donovan is definitely worth looking at. Great recruiter and good coach, but he already had a chance to leave the NCAA before for the NBA and turned it down. I don't think he jumps right now. His stature in UF is pretty up there.

Ollie is tough given the new extension, but if KD thinks highly of him, then I think highly of him

Another championship-pedigree guy could be Bill Self.

We're really in a tough position here, given that the draft is already done and we don't really have a way to add players in FA. That means that whoever takes over this team must be willing and ready to play with the guys we already have on the roster, knowing full well that they likely won't be able to get their own guys for 1-2 years.

[Prokorov]

In Order i'd want:

1) Messina: I think he is the only potential elite coach on the market. would command some respect now and potential be a long term staple

2) Mark Jackson: Of the rest i think he is the best coach, and is someone who would demand effort, the biggest issue for this current team. I also thing he could be a more long term solution

3) Ollie: maybe nto the best short term awnser but long term could fit well

4) Hollins: never was high on him the last go round and questions why he has been passed on

5) Karl: too short term of an awnser and we dont need to be revisiting the coaching position in another 1-2 years

[Rich Rane]

In Order i'd want:

1) Messina: I think he is the only potential elite coach on the market. would command some respect now and potential be a long term staple

2) Mark Jackson: Of the rest i think he is the best coach, and is someone who would demand effort, the biggest issue for this current team. I also thing he could be a more long term solution

3) Ollie: maybe nto the best short term awnser but long term could fit well

4) Hollins: never was high on him the last go round and questions why he has been passed on

5) Karl: too short term of an awnser and we dont need to be revisiting the coaching position in another 1-2 years

These were pretty much my own thoughts in the other thread. I'm not sure about Mark Jackson as a long term guy though. He's young, but doesn't exactly strike me as an Xs and Os guy.

Karl could provide some sort of good short term solution then should he leave after a year or two, the Nets still have John Welch who was with Karl for 8 years.

[Prokorov]

These were pretty much my own thoughts in the other thread. I'm not sure about Mark Jackson as a long term guy though. He's young, but doesn't exactly strike me as an Xs and Os guy.

Karl could provide some sort of good short term solution then should he leave after a year or two, the Nets still have John Welch who was with Karl for 8 years.

I know nothing about welch really... So hard for me to really comment other then to say that assistant coaches who worked under great coaches in the NBA have a super mixed track record, that trends more toward nuetral/underwhelming then it does following in the footsteps of the coach they were under, unlike say the NFL coachng trees.

I'm just really down on the idea of another coach in 1-2 years. If you think welch is that guy, then just hire him now

[Rich Rane]

These were pretty much my own thoughts in the other thread. I'm not sure about Mark Jackson as a long term guy though. He's young, but doesn't exactly strike me as an Xs and Os guy.

Karl could provide some sort of good short term solution then should he leave after a year or two, the Nets still have John Welch who was with Karl for 8 years.

I know nothing about welch really... So hard for me to really comment other then to say that assistant coaches who worked under great coaches in the NBA have a super mixed track record, that trends more toward nuetral/underwhelming then it does following in the footsteps of the coach they were under, unlike say the NFL coachng trees.

I'm just really down on the idea of another coach in 1-2 years. If you think welch is that guy, then just hire him now

http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/7/10/4 ... nets-staff

[SpeedyG]

Could Joe Prunty get an interim label here?

When Kidd was suspended in the first two games of this season, Prunty was the guy who stepped in. I remember thinking he did a pretty good job in those first two games.

[kerry kittles]

It's weird because my college alma mater just went through the same thing, obviously on a much smaller scale as we haven't been competitive on a national level since we had Rik Smits. But we fired out coach last season, hired Jeff Bower an NBA front office guy, a bit of an unconventional hire like Kidd and just like Kidd he bolted after a year taking the GM job with the Pistons. Came at the worst possible time after the recruiting process with a bunch of talks about recruits leaving, and returning players - had the conference freshman of the year. Thankfully, we hired a compotent guy and the players are sticking around.

Now onto my dream list I'd like to look at:
1. Messina
2. Ollie
3. Hoiberg
4. Jackson

[Prokorov]

Could Joe Prunty get an interim label here?

When Kidd was suspended in the first two games of this season, Prunty was the guy who stepped in. I remember thinking he did a pretty good job in those first two games.

why go with an interim when we have so much time to find a more permanent solution?

[SpeedyG]

Could Joe Prunty get an interim label here?

When Kidd was suspended in the first two games of this season, Prunty was the guy who stepped in. I remember thinking he did a pretty good job in those first two games.

why go with an interim when we have so much time to find a more permanent solution?

The interim would be a "prove-it" tag. Prunty knows the team, and the team knows him already. IMO, he showed capable in those first two games. Yes, we have time, but not as much as you think. Summer League is just a shade a month from now. There's still the issue of Kidd to be resolved. Then interviewing coaches. Then negotiating their salary. The new coach...may or may not want to bring in his own staff.

There's going to be lots of gears turning.

The last thing this team needs is to rush this decision and get the wrong guy...again.

[MrDollarBills]

Could Joe Prunty get an interim label here?

When Kidd was suspended in the first two games of this season, Prunty was the guy who stepped in. I remember thinking he did a pretty good job in those first two games.

why go with an interim when we have so much time to find a more permanent solution?

The interim would be a "prove-it" tag. Prunty knows the team, and the team knows him already. IMO, he showed capable in those first two games. Yes, we have time, but not as much as you think. Summer League is just a shade a month from now. There's still the issue of Kidd to be resolved. Then interviewing coaches. Then negotiating their salary. The new coach...may or may not want to bring in his own staff.

There's going to be lots of gears turning.

The last thing this team needs is to rush this decision and get the wrong guy...again.

2 games mean nothing to me.

Either way, this will be a rushed decision, and being realistic as possible this won't end well for us.

If you haven't realized it by now, this franchise is

[Paradise]

Right now my short list in order:

#1: Messina - We could truly build that San Antonio culture with him. He already has ties to Prokhorov and Kirilenko. We could build a foundation with his philosophy. He may not lure free agents but his coaching could do the talking.

#2 - Ollie: Another long term option. His ability to develop players will be great for Plumlee, Brown, Jefferson and Thames. I think he has enough pull to help us recruit some of his old teammates also like Sefelosha this summer and possibly Durant in 2016.

#3 - Jackson: Mark Jackson being a hometown hero obviously makes sense. He's not a bad motivational coach whatsoever. Players seem to love him and he seems to be the best choice to sell to Pierce, KG while in the process of developing Plumlee, Brown and Jefferson. He is Kidd 2.0 but without a creative offense. The Warriors were elite defensively with him, which makes him interesting.

#4 - Hollins: Hollins is old school. Cut from the Doc Rivers cloth of coaching. His defense principles and philosophy would be refreshing. His accountablity and no nonsense approach would be lovely but his offense isn't modern day. He doesn't ullize PGs and his style of offense will be Avery 2.0. He doesn't believe in analytics either which is troubling. Risky hire.

#5 - Karl: He's overrated but he would use Deron, Joe, Plumlee the best out of the coaching list. His offensive teams usually are predictable but fun to watch and he would not hesitate to use our bench and develop our young players. He isn't a long term coach, though. He probably has five years left before retirement.

[Keith Van Horn]

Is there any one name that all Nets fans could agree on? Seems like we can never agree on anything lol.


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[MrDollarBills]

I'm down for either Messina, Ollie, or Karl

[Keith Van Horn]

As a Connecticut guy, I would love Ollie.


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[Prokorov]

Could Joe Prunty get an interim label here?

When Kidd was suspended in the first two games of this season, Prunty was the guy who stepped in. I remember thinking he did a pretty good job in those first two games.

why go with an interim when we have so much time to find a more permanent solution?

The interim would be a "prove-it" tag. Prunty knows the team, and the team knows him already. IMO, he showed capable in those first two games. Yes, we have time, but not as much as you think. Summer League is just a shade a month from now. There's still the issue of Kidd to be resolved. Then interviewing coaches. Then negotiating their salary. The new coach...may or may not want to bring in his own staff.

There's going to be lots of gears turning.

The last thing this team needs is to rush this decision and get the wrong guy...again.

The last thing this team needs is a trial basis. its the offseason, this is when teams find long term solutions.

[Paradise]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/483294954358190081[/tweet]

[VCRJKidd15]

In on the George Karl for Nets coach train.