Optimism for Embiid's Health

[76ciology]

OK.. Not an expert or anything. But I'll try my best to defend Embiid not being a health risk.

KNEE:
His knee was just a sprain. Completely non-issue.

BACK:
His back was 100% and he showed it during his workout in santa monica the blow away GMs.

"all teams come into conclusion that his back is nothing to be worried about.."
- SAM HINKIE

Foot:
With regards to his foot injury, which Hinkie said he had a very extensive background with Yao Ming, so Hinkie know's Embiid's foot was nothing to worry about that's why they picked him.

"The surgery went very well and I’m confident that after appropriate healing he will be able to return to NBA Basketball. Joel tolerated the surgery without difficulty and will begin his rehabilitation in the near future.”

DOCTOR OF EMBIID

IN General:

Walton, he played in a different era when medical technology wasn't as advanced. Yao, he was a giant who was overworked by China's national team. Oden, the guy has some genetical problems with his hips if I'm not mistaken that makes him injury prone because one of his knee would make up more load. That's why he moves like an old man, as per Bill Simmons. Bynum, he was a damaged goods since HS.

I think with modern technology, Embiid's age that favors his side in terms of healing rate, how his injuries are non-chronic and non degenerative, how Big Z, Drummond and Mchale was able to recover from similar injuries, how his back was 100% healthy prior to this new injury, how his doctors doesn't see any problem with Embiid's feet, how the Cavs say health wasn't the issue for them to pass up Embiid, how the Cavs was even rumored to trade down and grab him, how after receiving Embiid's medicals we didn't go hard after the Cavs' 1st (Woj's report), how we have the medical info on Embiid by his agent and found no problems with it considering how cautious we are after Bynum's injury(Sixers FO talked with experts from around the country), how Embiid has said that he expects to play this season, how we have enough time for Embiid to recover, strengthen his body and probably correct his movements.

The fact is, all of these injuries can be healed 100%. It's inevitable that he'd be able to play 100% healthy at some time(atleast 5 months). And the sixers have enough time to do preventive measures like giving him enough time to recover, improving his nutrition and body to make him more durable.

"if he can remain healthy, which I think he has a very very good chance...
- SAM HINKIE

But on Friday, Danny Ainge joined the Toucher and Rich Show on 98.5 The Sports Hub to discuss the NBA draft. He was asked point blank if the Celtics would have taken Embiid at No. 6 had he been available.

"Yes we would have," Ainge said.

Ainge admitted that the injuries did scare them a bit, but not enough to steer clear.

"He was not red flagged," Ainge said, "meaning stay away at all costs. He was rated a little bit less than that with risk. But he was a guy we were looking at had he fallen."

He wowed coaches, scouts and front-office types from Cleveland, which owned the No. 1 pick, during a June 11 workout, at one point swishing 10 straight three-pointers. The Cavaliers also put him through rigorous conditioning tests, which included running on the treadmill, to make sure the back injury that caused him to miss his final six games at Kansas was a thing of the past.

Word soon leaked that Cleveland officials were so impressed with Embiid that they were ready to make him the No. 1 pick in the June 26 draft.

The following morning, though, Embiid mentioned to one of his agents, Francois Nyam, that he was experiencing discomfort in his right foot. It was certainly nothing major, as Embiid spent time juggling a soccer ball at a Los Angeles-area park that afternoon.

The Cavs who went through extensive researching Embiid's medicals for the longest time, would have labeled him a red flag. I'm pretty sure they checked his bone density and other things like checking if there's any problem structurally like Oden. What caused the Cavs to pass up on Embiid was because it would take time before he'll be able to contribute and they want someone who can contribute right away, same thing with the Bucks. Cavs GM, Griffin, even said that health wasn't a factor in passing up Embiid.

So yeah, I don't think Embiid is red flagged for being a health risk. If not, the Cavs (rumor of trading down to grab him) the Sixers, Celtics and the Lakers (my gut feeling is that Embiid received a promise from them) would not be interested in drafting him.

[sixers hoops]

Excellent post, and I appreciate your research, but weren't you also optimistic about Bynum?

[Sixerscan]

The Cavs who went through extensive researching Embiid's medicals for the longest time, would have labeled him a red flag. I'm pretty sure they checked his bone density and other things like checking if there's any problem structurally like Oden. What caused the Cavs to pass up on Embiid was because it would take time before he'll be able to contribute and they want someone who can contribute right away, same thing with the Bucks. Cavs GM, Griffin, even said that health wasn't a factor in passing up Embiid.

what if he is lying

[76ciology]

Excellent post, and I appreciate your research, but weren't you also optimistic about Bynum?

No, I was actually the first guy out here to post about Bynum's knee and how Rob Hennigan sort of called him a red flag.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1200923

But yeah, I was a bit optimistic back then with limited info.

I love Andrew Bynum. I think we're going to be a much better team next year because of him. But I want to make sure we are not getting damanged goods in return.

Rob Hennigan was asked about Bynum's knee, he answered "no comment."
Brian Schmitz said in his recent article that the Magic don't think Bynum's knee won't hold up for long.

The reason why I create this thread is can anyone confirm the real status of Bynum's knee? We have a history of getting damaged goods. There was C-webb. Then there was EB42. What are we going to expect with Andrew Bynum?

PHISICALLY, I think him not missing any game every season is close to impossible. He's going to miss 10-20 games in a 82 games season. But I don't think his injury is bad as what the Magic people are reporting. Do you guys have any information regarding his knee?

What I posted almost 2 years ago. It was almost the same moment, if I'm not mistaken, when they announced the Bynum deal.

[SJSF]

Some seven footers are bigger boned and certainly heavier. Yao Ming, muresan, Shaq. ,Bynums and those types. Then there are mutombos, David Robinson, and the Joel Embiids. Embiid will never come close to 280-300 lbs like the giants. So the wear and tear won't be bad. This injury isn't as serious as you would think. Medical device technology is way ahead today then it was 10 years ago. Especially in the field of orthopaedics. If it's a knee then I would worry if he has a degenerative knee and needed micro fracture surgery already like Oden and probably Bynum. Amare never came back the same either.

[76ciology]

The Cavs who went through extensive researching Embiid's medicals for the longest time, would have labeled him a red flag. I'm pretty sure they checked his bone density and other things like checking if there's any problem structurally like Oden. What caused the Cavs to pass up on Embiid was because it would take time before he'll be able to contribute and they want someone who can contribute right away, same thing with the Bucks. Cavs GM, Griffin, even said that health wasn't a factor in passing up Embiid.

what if he is lying

First off, I'm not some insider so I don't really know the actual happenings in all this. So if you are going that route, maybe Embiid's foot injury was just a fake so that he can end up with the Lakers. FWIW, he even played soccer and played golf (not saying it's a physical sport) before the surgery.

I don't think Griffin would be lying because it would be inconsistent. I'm going to read between the lines, but when Griffin said that statement, he was being transparent because he said something about another statement prior or after saying Embiid's health wasn't a factor.. "it will get out anyway." And the Sixers and the Celtics didn't found anything wrong. And the Cavs was almost 100% sure that they were picking him until they discovered that Embiid will take 5-8 months to recover from his latest foot injury.

So ultimately, it was the foot injury that would take some time to recover that scared them. Then if you go by Hinkie and Embiid's doctor's statement, they seem to be confident that Embiid's foot injury is just a minor bump in the road. Hinkie went on to brag that he might even know a little too much about this naviscular injury thing.

But then I also don't think Embiid has any low bone density or some genetic or structural problem like Oden or even the exaggerated report of hepatitis. This guy was like a guinea pig for some science project during his workouts with the Cavs. Embiid went on rigorous training and the Cavs did their medicals on him.

[PhilasFinest]

If you go on ComcastSportsNet's website and click on Sixers, theres a video from the other day where they had a Doctor from Penn explain the injury.....and at the end, he said theres historically a 85% chance that he recovers from the injury, but likely will need some extra conditioning/rehab due to his size.

[sixers hoops]

Excellent post, and I appreciate your research, but weren't you also optimistic about Bynum?

No, I was actually the first guy out here to post about Bynum's knee and how Rob Hennigan sort of called him a red flag.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1200923

But yeah, I was a bit optimistic back then with limited info.

I love Andrew Bynum. I think we're going to be a much better team next year because of him. But I want to make sure we are not getting damanged goods in return.

Rob Hennigan was asked about Bynum's knee, he answered "no comment."
Brian Schmitz said in his recent article that the Magic don't think Bynum's knee won't hold up for long.

The reason why I create this thread is can anyone confirm the real status of Bynum's knee? We have a history of getting damaged goods. There was C-webb. Then there was EB42. What are we going to expect with Andrew Bynum?

PHISICALLY, I think him not missing any game every season is close to impossible. He's going to miss 10-20 games in a 82 games season. But I don't think his injury is bad as what the Magic people are reporting. Do you guys have any information regarding his knee?

What I posted almost 2 years ago. It was almost the same moment, if I'm not mistaken, when they announced the Bynum deal.

Even after the bowling injury, in jan 2013, I was still searching for info to keep me optimistic about Bynum since we paid a hefty price for him. Once March rolled around, I came to terms with the fact that we we're beat on the deal.

I am much more optimistic about Embiid; however, the Bynum situation will not allow me to be confident until he plays a healthy season.

I am sure the organization will do everything, from best doctors, strength, conditioning, rest, nutrition, etc., to give him the best opportunity to succeed.

[James40]

He'll probably sit out the year and thats probably the best plan, at the earliest we're probably looking at February.

It's not just the foot injury either, its two stress fractures In 4 month period that has people concerned, plus there were reports of him having back problems in high school. He's probably a guy that will play 60-65 games a year with extra rest on back to backs until he can prove to stay healthy.

[snoopdogg88]

you also have to consider that when he does come back, will he continue tp have the same growth?

He's only been playing basketball for 3 years. Could his growth be "stunted" by sitting out an entire year?
Do the inuries start to take a toll on his development mentally and physically?

Does he continue to improve? Will he have that muscle memory and mental block and always be gun-shy? Maybe not as explosive?

[76ciology]

He'll probably sit out the year and thats probably the best plan, at the earliest we're probably looking at February.

It's not just the foot injury either, its two stress fractures In 4 month period that has people concerned, plus there were reports of him having back problems in high school. He's probably a guy that will play 60-65 games a year with extra rest on back to backs until he can prove to stay healthy.

But that's the thing. All his life, did he only trained for three years? I heard he's a very good football and vollyeball player. Embiid went on to say that he might have played for the national team. Who knew? Maybe he was training harder in cameroon than most of the draftees.

Then in a span of three years, I think he went intensive training thus there's suddenly huge improvement in his game.

I think these last two injuries doesn't say he's a health risk. It might just mean that he just needs to take some time for his body to rest and strengthen it thru nutrition (the guy is not a health junkie) and thru specific conditioning training.

Then again.. Both injuries can be healed 100%. None of then should be a problem long term. Well, that's what the doctors are saying.

[James40]

He'll probably sit out the year and thats probably the best plan, at the earliest we're probably looking at February.

It's not just the foot injury either, its two stress fractures In 4 month period that has people concerned, plus there were reports of him having back problems in high school. He's probably a guy that will play 60-65 games a year with extra rest on back to backs until he can prove to stay healthy.

But that's the thing. All his life, did he only trained for three years? I heard he's a very good football and vollyeball player. Embiid went on to say that he might have played for the national team. Who knew? Maybe he was training harder in cameroon than most of the draftees.

Then in a span of three years, I think he went intensive training thus there's suddenly huge improvement in his game.

I think these last two injuries doesn't say he's a health risk. It might just mean that he just needs to take some time for his body to rest and strengthen it thru nutrition (the guy is not a health junkie) and thru specific conditioning training.

Then again.. Both injuries can be healed 100%. None of then should be a problem long term. Well, that's what the doctors are saying.

I think his foot will heal at 100% as well. With Yao's case it was his high arches that's caused there to be so much pressure on that particular bone, plus his weight. I still think Embiid will fill out around 270 easy so that shouldn't be a problem for him. But what I never want to hear is this guy having knee problems in the next couple of years and the team or fans saying, "How could we or they know"

On the bright side, one day we might thank Cleveland for working the crap out of him and breaking his foot, lol.

[Ericb5]

I'm optimistic because of all of the reasons stated, but ultimately we won't know for a while. As Hinkie said, it is a calculated risk. Embiid was not going to be available to us at the 3rd pick unless something like this happened.

I think that I personally will be worried about his health until he plays a full healthy season, so that means that I have at least 2 years of worry ahead of me. It was a risk worth taking. I wouldn't have taken him over Parker or Wiggins, but with a Exum it was a judgement call and we went for the higher reward potential.

I have been saying it for months on message boards that we stink and need to continue to stink so I have no problem at all with selecting prospects that will not be available right away. We have a bunch of talented prospects, plenty of cap room and are likely to get another high pick next year. Stay the course...


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[freshie2]

The injury is scary, but given they are resting him for a year he is going to have the best possible chance at success. Not having all the medical reports, I was hoping for Exum, but am hoping for a win on this gamble...could be a huge franchise changer.

[vdalfmd]

Never understood the Oden comparisons. It's just stupid.
The crucial difference here is if it's a degenerative injury and he has a chronic problem or it isn't.

[racestud]

Why does brook lopez keep breaking his foot? He is not a heavy 7 footer or over worked like ming..

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[Cokeleaf]

you also have to consider that when he does come back, will he continue tp have the same growth?

He's only been playing basketball for 3 years. Could his growth be "stunted" by sitting out an entire year?
Do the inuries start to take a toll on his development mentally and physically?

Does he continue to improve? Will he have that muscle memory and mental block and always be gun-shy? Maybe not as explosive?

This is a scary thought that you bring up. I hope after doctors have cleared Embiid to play, that he will continue to hit the gym and do non foot-extensive workouts to help keep him motivated and still improve is game

[bedjawII]

The #1 thing Embiid has going for him is his youth. Here are a couple of my thoughts. As long as we get 10 years out of Embiid then the riskwas worth it. Ask Rockets fans if they would draft him again and they'd all tell you heck yeah. I also don't think it's a given that Embiid doesn't play the whole year. You can't draw conclusions from Noel on how the Sixers handle Embiid. Different person and different injury. I do believe the will be conservative but the rehab process is much different. For example if he is cleared for BB activities at five months that's Thanksgiving. If I remember correctly Noel wasn't cleared until late Feb/early March. I'm optimistic because I trust our FO.

[MiltownHawkeye]

I feel like you're only looking for the information that supports what you wanna hear, and that's a dangerous way to think.

Sometimes it isn't about a chronic injury with big men, but about just being injury prone in general. This is what happened with Bogut. If it wasn't his hideous arm injury, it was his back. If it wasn't his back, it was his foot. If it wasn't his foot it was his ankle. That's what I fear with Embiid, not a degenerative condition. The good thing is, I don't think he'll be taken out of the game like Oden and Bowie was. Hopefully you're right and these are just freak injuries but that doesn't translate to healthy career.

[SixerFever215]

I'm a 100% sure we won't see Embiid play this year there's no reason he should.Hinkie and the staff did there homework talked to the best doctors and felt good about it. If you have the chance to draft the best player who has 85% chance of recovering from his injury you go for it. I expect the staff to be EXTRA careful because he's a big man and you don't want him to re injure his self.