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Ben McLemore - season review

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Kings2013
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Re: Ben McLemore - season review 

Post#41 » by Kings2013 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:54 am

enderwilson wrote:I believe the intent was to demonstrate that you cannot predict the success of a player based on their rookie year stats.


How would simple ppg demonstrate that?

Obviously you can't pinpoint with 100% certainty how a player will develop after year 1, but personally I think, more often than not, you can acertain the general direction of a young players career from their rookie season, otherwise what would be the point of the R.O.Y award? If you went to the 'Trades and Transactions' board on this site why would his value be low and people around the league like Bill Simmons not have confidence in him?
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Re: Ben McLemore - season review 

Post#42 » by enderwilson » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:14 am

Kings2013 wrote:
enderwilson wrote:I believe the intent was to demonstrate that you cannot predict the success of a player based on their rookie year stats.


How would simple ppg demonstrate that?

Obviously you can't pinpoint with 100% certainty how a player will develop after year 1, but personally I think, more often than not, you can acertain the general direction of a young players career from their rookie season, otherwise what would be the point of the R.O.Y award? If you went to the 'Trades and Transactions' board on this site why would his value be low and people around the league like Bill Simmons not have confidence in him?


Exactly, so while the professionals who are paid good money to project the future of a rookies career are pretty much in favor of Ben's future, many of the members on this board argue he's a hack while precisely pointing at his stats, such as ppg, as evidence to back their cause. I'm not a Ben cheerleader, but the cherry picking of his failings I find lame. He's shown promise this season too. So if the range of opinion is anywhere from washed up scrub to Ray Allen like potential, then IMO it is to our benefit to keep him around for his rookie contract to see how he develops. You have to admit, he's given himself plenty of room for improvement. I'm curious to see what happens.
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Re: Ben McLemore - season review 

Post#43 » by SmellingColors » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:47 am

408Kings wrote:
SmellingColors wrote:You'd be surprised if he CAN? He has all the athletic attributes of Gerald Green and an organization that seems committed to bringing that out of him. McLemore is not a knucklehead and has a good work ethic. His handles have already improved and considering how horrible it was to begin with that is great news. And his shot has no mechanical flaws in it so he has all the capabilities of hitting it consistently. He also has the athletic talent to be a good defender, it just depends on whether he has the iq. He definitely can be a Gerald Green type player it's just whether it comes together for him. I don't think McLemore will need time in the d-league for it to come together though.


Right. I agree with everything you said. Especially the part about his IQ.

But with that said, just because a kid has all the skills and talent in the world, doesnt mean they always put it together.

For every Nicolas Batum, there's a Joe Alexander. For every Rudy Gay, there's an Adam Morrison.


Definitely. I'm not saying he will put it together. Nobody knows for certain. But if you want to become a winning franchise you have to learn to develop the talent you see in front of you. You can't just give up on a kid that could be special because he had a really rough year. Developing is not pretty, but it can be worth it. You get franchise cornerstones out of it.

I guess what I'm also saying is who are we getting for McLemore? John Henson? A guy who has a number of weaknesses in his game that we would have to develop as well? Maybe Henson is better than McLemore right now, maybe he'll be significantly better in the future, or maybe McLemore will be. I don't know, but if I'm the FO and I've seen McLemore, I drafted McLemore, and I've seen his progress and the potential I stick with the guy I picked and continue investing time into him.

One last point is that the way to win in the league is to do something different and do it well. Do something that exploits other teams. Something they can't defend or replicate. If we could put out a guard lineup of 6'6" and 6'5" that can rain around arguably the most skilled big man in the NBA, why not go after that? That's what I see in McLemore/Stauskas around Cousins. Add Livingston to the bunch at 6'7" and that guard rotation is huge. I don't wanna give up on that possibility for John Henson.
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Re: Ben McLemore - season review 

Post#44 » by 408Kings » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:48 pm

SmellingColors wrote:Definitely. I'm not saying he will put it together. Nobody knows for certain. But if you want to become a winning franchise you have to learn to develop the talent you see in front of you. You can't just give up on a kid that could be special because he had a really rough year. Developing is not pretty, but it can be worth it. You get franchise cornerstones out of it.


I agree. This is what the Spurs do year after year. Draft a talented player, let them mature as a player and learn the system, then give them some time on court to practice what they teach.

I guess what I'm also saying is who are we getting for McLemore? John Henson? A guy who has a number of weaknesses in his game that we would have to develop as well? Maybe Henson is better than McLemore right now, maybe he'll be significantly better in the future, or maybe McLemore will be. I don't know, but if I'm the FO and I've seen McLemore, I drafted McLemore, and I've seen his progress and the potential I stick with the guy I picked and continue investing time into him.


This is what front office personnel get paid to do right? It's totally subjective. For me, I would trade McLemore for a player like Henson because Henson helps to hide some of our deficiencies now and still has room for improvement -- he's a prospect still. We need a weak side shot blocker because opposing teams get into the lane too easily, and Cousins is not really a threat to block/alter shots. We just drafted another player at the same position (and mostly redundant skills) as Bmac in Stauskas that allows us the flexibility to ship Ben away if the right deal comes along. Whereas none of our 4's are really shot blockers + mid range shooters at all. They are all one or the other, with exception of JT of course, but contract.

One last point is that the way to win in the league is to do something different and do it well. Do something that exploits other teams. Something they can't defend or replicate. If we could put out a guard lineup of 6'6" and 6'5" that can rain around arguably the most skilled big man in the NBA, why not go after that? That's what I see in McLemore/Stauskas around Cousins. Add Livingston to the bunch at 6'7" and that guard rotation is huge. I don't wanna give up on that possibility for John Henson.


I'm on board with adding a guard like Livingston, who will help our back court defensively. But, this is where our philosophy on building the team differs. I question why we'd need to start Ben and Stauskas, both of whom are defensive liabilities, rather than improving the 4 position? We have 2 great low post scorers and Stauskas will likely be our safety valve for when they get doubled (IT as well if he's still around). I think our inability to stop anyone on defense led to a lot of our close losses last year and that's where we need the most improvement. That's why a player like Josh Smith keeps coming up.
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