Hornets Sign Lance Stephenson 3y/27.5 mil (p67)

Post #221 » by **BigSlam** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:05 pm

I was vocal about not wanting him 6 months ago and I still do not want him.

I think he would be terrible for us.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #222 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:09 pm

No Lance for me.

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tonman · Post #223 » by **tonman** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:26 pm

team first. only real way a small market team can succeed.

TheKingofSting2 · Post #224 » by **TheKingofSting2** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:36 am

I still want to sign him but I have to be honest I have some concern over putting he and Hairston in the same locker room.

Elden Payton · Post #225 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:56 am

Rich Cho's 4 C's philosophy-Things he wants.

Guys who compete, guys with character, guys who have consistency and guys who cover (play both ends of the floor).

Rich Cho's 4 S' philosophy-This he doesn't want.

Guys who are slow, guys who are soft, guys who are stupid or guys who are selfish.

Lance Stephenson 4 C's-

Guy is Cancerous, guy is Combustible, guy is Childish and guy is Crazy.

Snidely FC · Post #226 » by **Snidely FC** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:24 am

From Zach Lowe's analysis of Stephenson:

He drove the ball to the rim only about 4.2 times per game, according to SportVU tracking cameras, a mark right around those of so-so penetrators like Patrick Beverley, Nate Wolters, and Shaun Livingston.

He’s a good 3-point shooter, but not a great one, and certainly not one other teams fear when he’s away from the ball. Opposing defenders were willing to take an extra step or two off of Stephenson to clog the lane

his pick-and-rolls appear to have a go-nowhere quality — especially when opposing teams have their big man drop back into the paint to contain Stephenson’s drive. Presented with that obstacle, Stephenson sometimes pulls the hoops equivalent of nonsense conversation to buy time — hesitation bounces, head fakes, meaningless crossovers, dribbles that somehow result in him going backward.

All that fancy stuff resulted in a heap of ugly turnovers. Stephenson coughed up the ball on 24 percent of the pick-and-rolls he finished, a mark that ranked 145th among players who ran at least 50 of those suckers, per Synergy Sports.

He doesn’t have a reliable midrange jumper to shoot over those big guys, like Chris Paul’s sniper shot from the right elbow, which means there is no in-between on his pick-and-rolls. They either lead to crazy drives or nowhere.

His assists in the half court are mostly unspectacular. He rarely got into the teeth of the defense for drop-off passes that led to juicy shots at the rim

He loves going 1-on-3, or even 1-on-4, and if just one defender can at least slow him up, another one often reaches in and pokes the ball away.Stephenson probably led the league in the number of times an unseen defender trailing from behind reached in for a steal. He zooms in without a plan, which means a lot of ugly jump passes and desperate wraparounds in the tight area underneath the basket. He loves going for all-in deep routes, like a quarterback throwing a bomb to a streaking receiver through double coverage. This may shock you, but lots of those passes end badly. Stephenson might be the league’s only player who committed multiple turnovers last season by tossing blind outlet passes backward over his head:

I post these not because I think he's horrible but because I think he is someone CHA will need to overpay for, which I would hate for them to do.

Elden Payton · Post #227 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:53 am

If Zach Lowe doesn't like his game then I definitely don't.

That guy has dropped deuces that have more basketball knowledge than me.

Bassman · Post #228 » by **Bassman** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:40 pm

All of these may be valid observations, but is Lance a finished product? Does he have no room to grow as a player, as a person?

If Lance was three years further into his career and still had these issues I would declare him a maxed out talent. given how he got here and his relative youth in the league.

As a 23 year old who has improved his FG%, FT%, rebounding and assists every year, I see an improving talent who is just coming into his best years. I also wish all of you declaring Lance to be a "cancer, poison, non-team player" could cite the quotes or even hints of this from other Indiana players. Yes they talked about some of his actions being a bit much or distracting, but i recall it was the front office that told him to cut it back. And that same front office (legend Larry Bird) has indicated he will do whatever it takes to keep Lance a Pacer. You would think he couldn't be happier than to let him go since he is such a horrible influence on his team.

I think Larry knows that Lance is their emerging star. Paul George is soft...so is Hibbert. They need someone who is able to step into the role of alpha-dog and push them forward. Lance needs refinement for sure, and a true mentor. MJ is in the perfect position to be that man for Lance. This team is the perfect team and situation for Stephenson to grow and thrive in. Indiana is, for bettor or worse, Paul George's team. Lance can carve out his own niche here. I want the guy and hope we sign him.

StitchJones · Post #229 » by **StitchJones** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:27 pm

Snidely FC wrote:From Zach Lowe's analysis of Stephenson:
He drove the ball to the rim only about 4.2 times per game, according to SportVU tracking cameras, a mark right around those of so-so penetrators like Patrick Beverley, Nate Wolters, and Shaun Livingston.

He’s a good 3-point shooter, but not a great one, and certainly not one other teams fear when he’s away from the ball. Opposing defenders were willing to take an extra step or two off of Stephenson to clog the lane
his pick-and-rolls appear to have a go-nowhere quality — especially when opposing teams have their big man drop back into the paint to contain Stephenson’s drive. Presented with that obstacle, Stephenson sometimes pulls the hoops equivalent of nonsense conversation to buy time — hesitation bounces, head fakes, meaningless crossovers, dribbles that somehow result in him going backward.
All that fancy stuff resulted in a heap of ugly turnovers. Stephenson coughed up the ball on 24 percent of the pick-and-rolls he finished, a mark that ranked 145th among players who ran at least 50 of those suckers, per Synergy Sports.
He doesn’t have a reliable midrange jumper to shoot over those big guys, like Chris Paul’s sniper shot from the right elbow, which means there is no in-between on his pick-and-rolls. They either lead to crazy drives or nowhere.
His assists in the half court are mostly unspectacular. He rarely got into the teeth of the defense for drop-off passes that led to juicy shots at the rim
He loves going 1-on-3, or even 1-on-4, and if just one defender can at least slow him up, another one often reaches in and pokes the ball away.Stephenson probably led the league in the number of times an unseen defender trailing from behind reached in for a steal. He zooms in without a plan, which means a lot of ugly jump passes and desperate wraparounds in the tight area underneath the basket. He loves going for all-in deep routes, like a quarterback throwing a bomb to a streaking receiver through double coverage. This may shock you, but lots of those passes end badly. Stephenson might be the league’s only player who committed multiple turnovers last season by tossing blind outlet passes backward over his head:

I post these not because I think he's horrible but because I think he is someone CHA will need to overpay for, which I would hate for them to do.

Wow. You went through the entire article picking out just the negative and not all the positives. Talk about using only the quotes you like...

chabber · Post #230 » by **chabber** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:32 pm

I had noticed that as well. That is the ultimate cherry pick right there. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but I just found it funny because of how the article is set up. After going over some of the negatives in Lance's game, Lowe then says this.

"There are a ton of warning signs here, and they can trick you into thinking Stephenson is overrated. But look a bit deeper and you can find signals that Stephenson may be in the early stages of a breakout career."

He then starts giving reasons why he thinks Lance could break out in the right situation. I'm not going to post the rest of it, but here is a link for those that want to read further.

http://grantland.com/features/the-courtship-of-lance-stephenson/

Snidely FC · Post #231 » by **Snidely FC** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:49 pm

I did cherry pick, because while I think Stephenson is a good to great player I don't like his fit for this CHA team and think he is about to get way overpaid. The cherry picking was a cautionary tale.

LamarMatic7 · Post #232 » by **LamarMatic7** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:11 pm

Bassman wrote:As a 23 year old who has improved his FG%, FT%, rebounding and assists every year, I see an improving talent who is just coming into his best years.

This is a damn scary company he is in, that's for sure:

Guards under the age of 24 with a 13/7/4 season:

Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Norm van Lier, Steve Francis and Lance Stephenson.

Joest2003 · Post #233 » by **Joest2003** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:17 pm

If we could trade Hendo and sign lance I would literally shed tears of joy. Being the league leader in triple doubles and being able to guard lebron is a little more important to me than his little antics.

LofJ · Post #234 » by **LofJ** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:13 pm

We'd have the best wing defense in the league with Stephenson and MKG. It makes me drool thinking about it.

MasterIchiro · Post #235 » by **MasterIchiro** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:29 pm

Snidely FC wrote:I did cherry pick, because while I think Stephenson is a good to great player I don't like his fit for this CHA team and think he is about to get way overpaid. The cherry picking was a cautionary tale.

It's ok to cherry pick as long as you are willing to at least acknowledge the other side of the conversation. I don't want to sit around and obsess on the negatives of any player in this free agency. All have their pluses and minuses.

Snidely FC · Post #236 » by **Snidely FC** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:49 pm

Listen, if we sign Lance he will be a dynamic upgrade over Hendo, even if he does beat the ball into the ground sometimes. I just am not too psyched about paying Lance $12-13 Mln, which I think is the neighborhood that puts him out of reach for IND.

Joest2003 · Post #237 » by **Joest2003** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:04 pm

Snidely FC wrote:Listen, if we sign Lance he will be a dynamic upgrade over Hendo, even if he does beat the ball into the ground sometimes. I just am not too psyched about paying Lance $12-13 Mln, which I think is the neighborhood that puts him out of reach for IND.

Hes that good though. Its not like hes gonna be another tyrus thomas lance will actually be earning his money and hes still very young.

HornetJail · Post #238 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:05 pm

LofJ wrote:We'd have the best wing defense in the league with Stephenson and MKG. It makes me drool thinking about it.

We need a lights-out shooter behind them though. PJ and CDR better be up to the task.

HornetJail · Post #239 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:09 pm

Joest2003 wrote:
Snidely FC wrote:Listen, if we sign Lance he will be a dynamic upgrade over Hendo, even if he does beat the ball into the ground sometimes. I just am not too psyched about paying Lance $12-13 Mln, which I think is the neighborhood that puts him out of reach for IND.

Hes that good though. Its not like hes gonna be another tyrus thomas lance will actually be earning his money and hes still very young.

Lance has already earned his money. Thomas was always a pretty crappy player, and was worth nowhere close to the $40M contract we signed him to, nor was he worth the 1st round pick that we traded for him. I would like to point out that we could have drafted James Young, Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, or even taken Shabazz Napier and tell Miami to go **** themselves and still get PJ Hairston. Best of all, we could have had... Brazilian Durant

mrknowitall215 · Post #240 » by **mrknowitall215** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:11 pm

Which free agent is most likely to be overpaid?

Dave McMenamin, ESPN.com: Lance Stephenson. The guy does a lot of things right, don't get me wrong. He showed off his all-around game with five triple-doubles last season and also has become a much more efficient player by upping his shooting percentage to 49.1 percent after hitting just 33.3 percent of his shots as a rookie. But there was no denying that his mercurial personality and on-court antics caused some friction with the Pacers. He'll get a big deal because so many teams have money to spend this offseason, which will drive up his price if Indiana is to keep him, but he'll have a lot of growing up to do before he'll truly earn that cash that's coming his way.

Who's the most intriguing free agent on the market?

Royce Young, ESPN.com: Lance Stephenson. How much do his antics impact his offers? Do the Pacers even want him back? He probably has max talent, but does he have a max demeanor? Can you really make him a franchise player? Stephenson could get $15 million a year, $5 million a year or anything in between. I really have no idea.