Taj will recruit. He'll be at Melo meeting (with Noah)

Post #61 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:09 pm

If Melo agrees to such low money, or even to go through with the bluff that he'll take it, push comes to shove, in order to get NY to deal, then he is a saint and fully converted to being about winning.

All the naysayers should change their tune quick about Anthony if this gets done.

logical_art · Post #62 » by **logical_art** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:09 pm

Rose has to get over his shyness or ego or loyalty or whatever. No one says you have to whore yourself out to get better players. But if a superstar is making your team his first destination, get the f off your ass and make him feel welcome. Its embarrassing that our superstar won't make that effort. I hope it doesn't sway Melo against us.

johnnyvann840 · Post #63 » by **johnnyvann840** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:10 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
coldfish wrote:
biggestbullsfan wrote:And Cap gurus wanna explain how we can realistically get Melo and keep Derrick, Noah and Taj and maybe jimmy?

Melo 22
Derrick 18.8
Noah 12.2
Taj 8
Jimmy 2
Doug Mcd 2
Mirotic 3
Kirk 1
Aussie big man 0.5K
Smith 1
Vet min 1
Vet min 1
Vet min 1

Total = $73.5M.

The lux tax barrier is $75M.

As far as acquistion, Boozer + nonguaranteeds are enough to get Melo his 22M. That's not an issue. The salary cap is due to skyrocket as new TV deals come online, so future lux tax and paying for Jimmy isn't much of an issue either.

Rose / Kirk
Butler
Melo / McDermott
Gibson / Mirotic / Cameron Big Shoulders
Noah / Smith
+ 3 vet min players

Brilliant. That is a Title contender if I ever saw one. and no luxury tax?

Only problem is getting the Knicks to take Boozer in a S &T. We would need to give them picks. 1st's Which I'm fine with. Let's get on with the show.

and it that is the team.. go ahead and get Ben Gordon as the back up 2 for the min. Why not?

Polynice4Pippen · Post #64 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 pm

I beg to differ wrote:It's possible that bringing Taj would peeve Melo. He could view it as pressure for him to take less money than he wants to. And it's almost like the anti-abortionists who shove photos of aborted fetuses in your face, or the vegans who shove beheaded animals in your face ... maybe Melo doesn't want to meet with the guy he wants off our team.

On second thought, since Noah(and maybe Pippen) has been a mediator/courier between the FO and Melo, we probably already know what Melo wants. Maybe this meeting is just a cover for the league to save face from allowing collusion (even though everyone knows collusion has been happening all over the place since 2010, but, like, let's not make it even more obvious.)

If Melo comes to the Bulls it's because he's willing to take less money and wants to win a championship. So that would mean he's all for keeping Taj. If it's just about Melo's money then he's staying in New York anyway.

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Droseisthe1 · Post #65 » by **Droseisthe1** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:12 pm

RememberLu wrote:Rose basically ceding the leadership role for this team to Noah, weird. You'd think he'd want to step up and be a rep for his team but nope

Seriously. Like how awkward is it when the best player decides not to show his face?

Polynice4Pippen · Post #66 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:13 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
coldfish wrote:
biggestbullsfan wrote:And Cap gurus wanna explain how we can realistically get Melo and keep Derrick, Noah and Taj and maybe jimmy?

Melo 22
Derrick 18.8
Noah 12.2
Taj 8
Jimmy 2
Doug Mcd 2
Mirotic 3
Kirk 1
Aussie big man 0.5K
Smith 1
Vet min 1
Vet min 1
Vet min 1

Total = $73.5M.

The lux tax barrier is $75M.

As far as acquistion, Boozer + nonguaranteeds are enough to get Melo his 22M. That's not an issue. The salary cap is due to skyrocket as new TV deals come online, so future lux tax and paying for Jimmy isn't much of an issue either.

Rose / Kirk
Butler
Melo / McDermott
Gibson / Mirotic / Cameron Big Shoulders
Noah / Smith
+ 3 vet min players

Brilliant. That is a Title contender if I ever saw one. and no luxury tax?

Only problem is getting the Knicks to take Boozer in a S &T. We would need to give them picks. 1st's Which I'm fine with. Let's get on with the show.

Slide Ben Gordon in there on a vet minimum and let the takeover begin.

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I beg to differ · Post #67 » by **I beg to differ** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:14 pm

Hopefully Phil really does have full power on this decision. Otherwise Dolan could pull a Dolan. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it's probably not good for anyone.

Post #68 » by **Ben** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:14 pm

ryannik09 wrote:
Ben wrote:
ryannik09 wrote:
Amnesty Boozer, then S&T Dunleavy, Randolph and the non-guaranteed deals for Carmleo, Carmelo also gets a starting salary of $20mm in that scenario

Dunleavy, Randolph, and the non-guaranteed deals only add up to around $9.2M. How can we get a $20M S&T for Melo out of that?

Because with Boozer amnestied we will be about $11.2mm under the cap. The Bulls can take back salary in a S&T when under the cap equal to the amount they are under the cap + outgoing salaries upto an amount that puts them $100k over the cap. Deeks just wrote an article about this and posted it to his twitter account.

So it turns out that you're referring to Mark's Anthony Randolph article. I hadn't read that b/c I'm not so interested in Randolph. But as it happens, he put a lot of stuff in there about a Boozer S&T. He should change the title of the article, b/c he's really burying the lead.

I thank you for pointing us to this, and I want to note one point from the piece:

MarkDeeks wrote:The downside to this is it costs the Bulls the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, their best chance at signing Nikola Mirotic. It is, however, a possibility.

So, we could do it but couldn't bring over Niko this year unless he'll take the BAE. Or might have to trade him to someone else for whom he'll play this year. Which would be OK with me if we're getting Melo.

Droseisthe1 · Post #69 » by **Droseisthe1** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:15 pm

Rerisen wrote:If Melo agrees to such low money, or even to go through with the bluff that he'll take it, push comes to shove, in order to get NY to deal, then he is a saint and fully converted to being about winning.

All the naysayers should change their tune quick about Anthony if this gets done.

Obviously, but it's a wait and see at this point.

Post #70 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:15 pm

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
I beg to differ wrote:It's possible that bringing Taj would peeve Melo. He could view it as pressure for him to take less money than he wants to. And it's almost like the anti-abortionists who shove photos of aborted fetuses in your face, or the vegans who shove beheaded animals in your face ... maybe Melo doesn't want to meet with the guy he wants off our team.

On second thought, since Noah(and maybe Pippen) has been a mediator/courier between the FO and Melo, we probably already know what Melo wants. Maybe this meeting is just a cover for the league to save face from allowing collusion (even though everyone knows collusion has been happening all over the place since 2010, but, like, let's not make it even more obvious.)

If Melo comes to the Bulls it's because he's willing to take less money and wants to win a championship. So that would mean he's all for keeping Taj. If it's just about Melo's money then he's staying in New York anyway.

It's not so simple. I see we are building our psychological defenses for rejection already.

The problem is its never all or nothing about one thing. Money is important to all players, didn't see Derrick turning down the extra cash from the Derrick Rose rule (though Paul George negotiated out of some of his).

And the reality is Houston can offer money and a great team for winning.

The Bulls chances only go up the more money we can offer, even if its less than NY.

And the more we can offer is only realistic so far as we can do a S&T with NY. And a S&T with NY is only realistic so far as they believe Melo will take a massive haircut to come here if they don't deal.

But there are limits to believability depending on the amount being worked with, and we are heading in that direction, of our amount not being believable.

I don't see how Taj coming to the meeting is going to make NY believe we will do it all it takes to push them to the brink. It's giving Phil a great opening on the chess board.

johnnyvann840 · Post #71 » by **johnnyvann840** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:15 pm

Polynice4Pippen wrote:[

Slide Ben Gordon in there on a vet minimum and let the takeover begin.

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I just posted that.. :lol:

Shill · Post #72 » by **Shill** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:16 pm

Rerisen wrote:
Shill4Tyrus24 wrote:IF Melo is willing to take less, yes.

It's a LOT less tbh. Our pitch is to come to take a huge paycut.

Hope he thinks Jo and taj upfront means an automatic title for that much of a haircut.

There is no way that Derrick Rose's health is not a factor in this. So he needs to stop saying stupid things.

It is. I don't know the mechanics of all this, but the key thing is getting Melo on board first.

After that, I think the money will work itself out.

bearadonisdna · Post #73 » by **bearadonisdna** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:17 pm

Randolphs contract is much more a burden than taj. Who isnt a burden , was our best player in the playoffs and is recruiting.

Chitownbulls · Post #74 » by **Chitownbulls** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:17 pm

New York guys coming together!!!!! Heck ya!!! Taj staying boy!!!

Polynice4Pippen · Post #75 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:17 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:[

Slide Ben Gordon in there on a vet minimum and let the takeover begin.

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I just posted that..

Great minds, my friend. Great minds. :grin:

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Shill · Post #76 » by **Shill** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:18 pm

Rerisen wrote:If Melo agrees to such low money, or even to go through with the bluff that he'll take it, push comes to shove, in order to get NY to deal, then he is a saint and fully converted to being about winning.

All the naysayers should change their tune quick about Anthony if this gets done.

This is what I'm banking on (especially the bluff part).

If it's about top dollar, we're no better than 3rd place.

bad knees · Post #77 » by **bad knees** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:19 pm

Rerisen wrote:
bad knees wrote:The most we can offer Melo, and keep Rose, Butler, Noah, Taj and Doug, is $15.8M.

Anthony- $15,836,790
Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,700,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Taj - $8,000,000
McDermott - $1,898,300
Roster charge ($507,336) x 7 = $3,551,352
Rip* - $333,334

Total: $63,200,000

Rose, Room MLE
Butler, vet min
Melo, McDermott
Taj, Bairstow
Noah, vet min

Assuming we can move off Randolph, probably gonna take sweetners for that.

Anyhow, is it realistic to think 15.8 is enough to scare NY?

It's gonna take a second round pick and cash to unload Randolph. And then you have MDJ and Smith, too, although they won't be bad.

Biggest thing is that Bulls appear to be going all in at this number (or a little more depending on their willingness to part with Butler or Doug). I would have thought that they would have kept open the option of trading Taj and offering Melo $20M or more. But having Taj at the meeting pretty much kills that option.

Post #78 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:20 pm

I beg to differ wrote:Hopefully Phil really does have full power on this decision. Otherwise Dolan could pull a Dolan. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it's probably not good for anyone.

He can pull a Dolan in 2 ways.

1. Say screw the Bulls and Melo, I'm not dealing, let Anthony go to Chicago for 15m.

2. Offer Melo full boat max - over Phils opposition - and point out that the difference vs the above is a massive amount of money, like 60m dollars.

Shill · Post #79 » by **Shill** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:21 pm

BTW, the people wanting Rose to recruit, are you SURE that's what you want?

Melo: What's up, D-Rose?

Rose: Hey.

Melo: What's good in Chicago?

Rose: I just wanna wee-un.

ChiCitySPORTS#1 · Post #80 » by **ChiCitySPORTS#1** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:21 pm

Droseisthe1 wrote:
RememberLu wrote:Rose basically ceding the leadership role for this team to Noah, weird. You'd think he'd want to step up and be a rep for his team but nope

Seriously. Like how awkward is it when the best player decides not to show his face?

It's borderline disrespectful. That's supposed to he his running mate. Sigh....this kid man