Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[payitforward]

It's an irrelevant idea -- why would Philly want to trade Noel for Porter, now that they've already put in the time to wait for his injury to stop being a problem?

(OTOH, if it still *is* a problem, why would the Wizards make the trade?)

Because since that draft, Philly has added Embid, and Trevor Ariza had made a massive jump in production. What seemed like good, balanced picks at the time no longer look that way. Both guys are totally unproven as NBA players so there's little reason to believe that either guy has changed in value relative to their draft value.

Disagree. Porter did play, and was incredibly unproductive while doing so. Noel hasn't played. Noel's value is definitely higher than Porter's right now. The 76ers wouldn't be interested.

I don't think they'd be interested either -- but, I don't think Porter's 300 minutes have any bearing on the issue.

[rockymac52]

Because since that draft, Philly has added Embid, and Trevor Ariza had made a massive jump in production. What seemed like good, balanced picks at the time no longer look that way. Both guys are totally unproven as NBA players so there's little reason to believe that either guy has changed in value relative to their draft value.

Disagree. Porter did play, and was incredibly unproductive while doing so. Noel hasn't played. Noel's value is definitely higher than Porter's right now. The 76ers wouldn't be interested.

I don't think they'd be interested either -- but, I don't think Porter's 300 minutes have any bearing on the issue.

Not a lot, but they do more than they don't. Like CCJ just said, if Porter played even decently in summer league or in those 300 minutes, no one would be talking about trading him. It doesn't bode well that even though he only played garbage minutes against the other team's scrubs, he played at an insanely unproductive rate.

And get this - the one thing this board can agree on (truly the ONE thing), is that Eric Maynor is/was terrible. Maynor only played 215 minutes with the Wizards. Why are 200 minutes enough to definitively judge Maynor, but 300 minutes aren't enough to judge Porter? Because we're all optimists deep down inside and we want to believe that Porter isn't already a bust, and we're willing to be inconsistent in the way we apply statistics to cater to the results that we want to believe in.

[Nivek]

Disagree. Porter did play, and was incredibly unproductive while doing so. Noel hasn't played. Noel's value is definitely higher than Porter's right now. The 76ers wouldn't be interested.

I don't think they'd be interested either -- but, I don't think Porter's 300 minutes have any bearing on the issue.

Not a lot, but they do more than they don't. Like CCJ just said, if Porter played even decently in summer league or in those 300 minutes, no one would be talking about trading him. It doesn't bode well that even though he only played garbage minutes against the other team's scrubs, he played at an insanely unproductive rate.

And get this - the one thing this board can agree on (truly the ONE thing), is that Eric Maynor is/was terrible. Maynor only played 215 minutes with the Wizards. Why are 200 minutes enough to definitively judge Maynor, but 300 minutes aren't enough to judge Porter? Because we're all optimists deep down inside and we want to believe that Porter isn't already a bust, and we're willing to be inconsistent in the way we apply statistics to cater to the results that we want to believe in.

The correct sample size on Maynor is 3600+ minutes. He'd been in the NBA for several seasons, and had demonstrated he wasn't any good. (Sorta like Seraphin.) Porter seemed a solid prospect based on his college performance, and then was awful in few minutes in the NBA. So, it makes sense to give him some more time before reaching a conclusion.

[rockymac52]

I don't think they'd be interested either -- but, I don't think Porter's 300 minutes have any bearing on the issue.

Not a lot, but they do more than they don't. Like CCJ just said, if Porter played even decently in summer league or in those 300 minutes, no one would be talking about trading him. It doesn't bode well that even though he only played garbage minutes against the other team's scrubs, he played at an insanely unproductive rate.

And get this - the one thing this board can agree on (truly the ONE thing), is that Eric Maynor is/was terrible. Maynor only played 215 minutes with the Wizards. Why are 200 minutes enough to definitively judge Maynor, but 300 minutes aren't enough to judge Porter? Because we're all optimists deep down inside and we want to believe that Porter isn't already a bust, and we're willing to be inconsistent in the way we apply statistics to cater to the results that we want to believe in.

The correct sample size on Maynor is 3600+ minutes. He'd been in the NBA for several seasons, and had demonstrated he wasn't any good. (Sorta like Seraphin.) Porter seemed a solid prospect based on his college performance, and then was awful in few minutes in the NBA. So, it makes sense to give him some more time before reaching a conclusion.

Oh, I totally agree. I haven't given up hope on Porter at all. I never had any hope on Maynor to begin with. Just saying, it's a little hypocritical and self-serving bias-related.

[Dark Faze]

This was discussed in the past but whats the general thought of Nene + heavily protected 1st for KG. KG comes off the books next summer. Nets need any picks they can get right now.

In terms of production we'd be hurt pretty bad...thats if KG even agreed to play with us, but its not like counting on Nene being healthy would be very smart either.

[dckingsfan]

This was discussed in the past but whats the general thought of Nene + heavily protected 1st for KG. KG comes off the books next summer. Nets need any picks they can get right now.

In terms of production we'd be hurt pretty bad...thats if KG even agreed to play with us, but its not like counting on Nene being healthy would be very smart either.

I would be all for any expiring deal for Nene - but that is just one opinion.

Edit: read to quickly - don't want to give up the 1st.

[dckingsfan]

Not a lot, but they do more than they don't. Like CCJ just said, if Porter played even decently in summer league or in those 300 minutes, no one would be talking about trading him. It doesn't bode well that even though he only played garbage minutes against the other team's scrubs, he played at an insanely unproductive rate.

And get this - the one thing this board can agree on (truly the ONE thing), is that Eric Maynor is/was terrible. Maynor only played 215 minutes with the Wizards. Why are 200 minutes enough to definitively judge Maynor, but 300 minutes aren't enough to judge Porter? Because we're all optimists deep down inside and we want to believe that Porter isn't already a bust, and we're willing to be inconsistent in the way we apply statistics to cater to the results that we want to believe in.

The correct sample size on Maynor is 3600+ minutes. He'd been in the NBA for several seasons, and had demonstrated he wasn't any good. (Sorta like Seraphin.) Porter seemed a solid prospect based on his college performance, and then was awful in few minutes in the NBA. So, it makes sense to give him some more time before reaching a conclusion.

Oh, I totally agree. I haven't given up hope on Porter at all. I never had any hope on Maynor to begin with. Just saying, it's a little hypocritical and self-serving bias-related.

I think all this came up about his trade value - for the reason rocky gives - it is probably valid to think he has limited trade value.

[nate33]

This was discussed in the past but whats the general thought of Nene + heavily protected 1st for KG. KG comes off the books next summer. Nets need any picks they can get right now.

In terms of production we'd be hurt pretty bad...thats if KG even agreed to play with us, but its not like counting on Nene being healthy would be very smart either.

I'm not giving up a 1st rounder to dump Nene. If Brooklyn won't take Nene off our hands for nothing, then so be it. I'd rather just keep hm.

[JordanL]

Blazer fan here. Suppose that the will is in place for a S&T for Ariza. What would it take?

CJ/Wright/Freeland is about what I would offer off the cuff, but I'm curious.

[rockymac52]

This was discussed in the past but whats the general thought of Nene + heavily protected 1st for KG. KG comes off the books next summer. Nets need any picks they can get right now.

In terms of production we'd be hurt pretty bad...thats if KG even agreed to play with us, but its not like counting on Nene being healthy would be very smart either.

I'm not giving up a 1st rounder to dump Nene. If Brooklyn won't take Nene off our hands for nothing, then so be it. I'd rather just keep hm.

Agreed. Look at it this way: in order to acquire a 30 year old Gortat, the Wizards had to give up a 1st round pick. If we wait one season (or maybe even now), we can potentially RECEIVE a 1st round pick in return for Nene.

He's just not worth losing along with a good draft pick, UNLESS it is merely a precursor to signing a true superstar - LeBron/Durant caliber player.

[rockymac52]

Blazer fan here. Suppose that the will is in place for a S&T for Ariza. What would it take?

CJ/Wright/Freeland is about what I would offer off the cuff, but I'm curious.

If we're 100% going to lose Ariza (as in, he tells the front office he's gone, either to Portland or somewhere else with enough cap room), then that's the only way. Otherwise, I have no interest.

Wright is a guy I actually like, but he is nearly identical to Martell Webster (minus the back injury and larger contract). Freeland is filler. CJ's rookie season was not inspiring at all.

How about some draft picks (read: 1st rounders, even if protected) instead?

[JordanL]

Blazer fan here. Suppose that the will is in place for a S&T for Ariza. What would it take?

CJ/Wright/Freeland is about what I would offer off the cuff, but I'm curious.

If we're 100% going to lose Ariza (as in, he tells the front office he's gone, either to Portland or somewhere else with enough cap room), then that's the only way. Otherwise, I have no interest.

Wright is a guy I actually like, but he is nearly identical to Martell Webster (minus the back injury and larger contract). Freeland is filler. CJ's rookie season was not inspiring at all.

How about some draft picks (read: 1st rounders, even if protected) instead?

I think a pick could be included in that possibly... it would depend a lot.

CJ is probably a lot better than Portland or Washington fans are comfortable assuming. That is, he's the kind of player I think real NBA front offices will value more than fans making armchair GM offers (from both the Portland and the Washington side).

And yes, this scenario is based around a situation where Ariza has been brainwashed/convinced that Portland is home.

[payitforward]

Not a lot, but they do more than they don't. Like CCJ just said, if Porter played even decently in summer league or in those 300 minutes, no one would be talking about trading him. It doesn't bode well that even though he only played garbage minutes against the other team's scrubs, he played at an insanely unproductive rate.

And get this - the one thing this board can agree on (truly the ONE thing), is that Eric Maynor is/was terrible. Maynor only played 215 minutes with the Wizards. Why are 200 minutes enough to definitively judge Maynor, but 300 minutes aren't enough to judge Porter? Because we're all optimists deep down inside and we want to believe that Porter isn't already a bust, and we're willing to be inconsistent in the way we apply statistics to cater to the results that we want to believe in.

The correct sample size on Maynor is 3600+ minutes. He'd been in the NBA for several seasons, and had demonstrated he wasn't any good. (Sorta like Seraphin.) Porter seemed a solid prospect based on his college performance, and then was awful in few minutes in the NBA. So, it makes sense to give him some more time before reaching a conclusion.

Oh, I totally agree. I haven't given up hope on Porter at all. I never had any hope on Maynor to begin with. Just saying, it's a little hypocritical and self-serving bias-related.

Actually, Kev's point was that, no, it wasn't those things.

[nate33]

I don't see Ariza going to Portland to fight with Matthews and Batum for playing time.

[TGW]

Jameer Nelson just got waived. I would definitely take him over Miller.

[payitforward]

Blazer fan here. Suppose that the will is in place for a S&T for Ariza. What would it take?

CJ/Wright/Freeland is about what I would offer off the cuff, but I'm curious.

If we're 100% going to lose Ariza (as in, he tells the front office he's gone, either to Portland or somewhere else with enough cap room), then that's the only way. Otherwise, I have no interest.

Wright is a guy I actually like, but he is nearly identical to Martell Webster (minus the back injury and larger contract). Freeland is filler. CJ's rookie season was not inspiring at all.

How about some draft picks (read: 1st rounders, even if protected) instead?

I think a pick could be included in that possibly... it would depend a lot.

CJ is probably a lot better than Portland or Washington fans are comfortable assuming. That is, he's the kind of player I think real NBA front offices will value more than fans making armchair GM offers (from both the Portland and the Washington side).

And yes, this scenario is based around a situation where Ariza has been brainwashed/convinced that Portland is home.

Maybe some day CJ will be a good player. So far, no one would think so -- not fans and not GMs. Freeland is just a throw-in. Not interested in him either.

Why would you want Ariza? You have Batum soaking up almost 3000 minutes at the SF. Wright is a more than capable backup, and doesn't Mathews put in some time at the 3 as well? Given all that, why would Ariza want to be there? I can't see what you're after w/ this suggestion.

Btw -- you have a terrific team! If I were you, I'd be looking for one more big and not a 3 -- make up for your single draft day screw up, Meyers Leonard.

[JordanL]

If we're 100% going to lose Ariza (as in, he tells the front office he's gone, either to Portland or somewhere else with enough cap room), then that's the only way. Otherwise, I have no interest.

Wright is a guy I actually like, but he is nearly identical to Martell Webster (minus the back injury and larger contract). Freeland is filler. CJ's rookie season was not inspiring at all.

How about some draft picks (read: 1st rounders, even if protected) instead?

I think a pick could be included in that possibly... it would depend a lot.

CJ is probably a lot better than Portland or Washington fans are comfortable assuming. That is, he's the kind of player I think real NBA front offices will value more than fans making armchair GM offers (from both the Portland and the Washington side).

And yes, this scenario is based around a situation where Ariza has been brainwashed/convinced that Portland is home.

Maybe some day CJ will be a good player. So far, no one would think so -- not fans and not GMs. Freeland is just a throw-in. Not interested in him either.

Why would you want Ariza? You have Batum soaking up almost 3000 minutes at the SF. Wright is a more than capable backup, and doesn't Mathews put in some time at the 3 as well? Given all that, why would Ariza want to be there? I can't see what you're after w/ this suggestion.

Btw -- you have a terrific team! If I were you, I'd be looking for one more big and not a 3 -- make up for your single draft day screw up, Meyers Leonard.

Ha, yeah.

My ideal offseason is to resign Mo Williams, get Vince Carter with the BAE, get Channing Frye with the MLE, then S&T CJ/Wright/[Freeland or Leonard] for Ariza.

Yes, we got Batum and Matthews soaking up a ton of minutes. Minutes they shouldn't HAVE to soak up.

That team has a legit shot out west with Lillard/TRob improving and Aldridge returning. That's the only way I think Ariza could be sold on coming off the bench, to be the final piece of a legit contender.

[Dark Faze]

Blazer fan here. Suppose that the will is in place for a S&T for Ariza. What would it take?

CJ/Wright/Freeland is about what I would offer off the cuff, but I'm curious.

If we're 100% going to lose Ariza (as in, he tells the front office he's gone, either to Portland or somewhere else with enough cap room), then that's the only way. Otherwise, I have no interest.

Wright is a guy I actually like, but he is nearly identical to Martell Webster (minus the back injury and larger contract). Freeland is filler. CJ's rookie season was not inspiring at all.

How about some draft picks (read: 1st rounders, even if protected) instead?

I think a pick could be included in that possibly... it would depend a lot.

CJ is probably a lot better than Portland or Washington fans are comfortable assuming. That is, he's the kind of player I think real NBA front offices will value more than fans making armchair GM offers (from both the Portland and the Washington side).

And yes, this scenario is based around a situation where Ariza has been brainwashed/convinced that Portland is home.

I'd do that trade yesterday for McCollum. Kids a stud and he'd be a Reggie Jackson tiered 6th man for us one day.

Wiz fans on this board have been so ridiculously out of sight out of mind in regards to prospects that didn't put up great numbers last year. Both Porter and CJ were in bad positions. They are much better than what they showed.

There's no way Portland says yes though. Without an elite shot creator he becomes a net negative offensively. He'd be a bad sixth man.

[fishercob]

This was discussed in the past but whats the general thought of Nene + heavily protected 1st for KG. KG comes off the books next summer. Nets need any picks they can get right now.

In terms of production we'd be hurt pretty bad...thats if KG even agreed to play with us, but its not like counting on Nene being healthy would be very smart either.

I'm not giving up a 1st rounder to dump Nene. If Brooklyn won't take Nene off our hands for nothing, then so be it. I'd rather just keep hm.

Agreed.

I am holding out the tiniest bit of hope for my KG-Nene swap.

Brooklyn may be about to implode from a personnel standpoint by losing Pierce, Llivingston and Blatche (2nd, 4th and 6th on the team in minutes) with only the taxpayer MLE to replace them.

Lopez is coming off his second huge injury in 3 years and Williams just had surgery on both ankles. They have a new coach.

The ship be sinkin.'

KG is going to want out. Brooklyn is going to want a return.

Enter the Wizards. Trade Nene to Brooklyn for KG. He's a great fit there, particularly since he won't hinder their pursuit of big FA's in two years.

KG has a no-trade clause. He allows this trade and agree to a nominal buyout so he can join the contender of his choice -- Spurs, OKC, Miami, Chicago, or likely his buddies Doc and Pierce in LA.

The Nets even have some new ancillary assets (2nds from the Kidd trade and picks they bought in the recent draft) to throw in.

While it would require KG to walk away from $12M minus whatever he recouped in a buyout and a vet min's deal, he's the highest paid player in league history. I think it's more likely that he forgoes the cash for a final shot a title than be stuck behind in Brooklyn just to cash a few more checks.

[JordanL]

If we're 100% going to lose Ariza (as in, he tells the front office he's gone, either to Portland or somewhere else with enough cap room), then that's the only way. Otherwise, I have no interest.

Wright is a guy I actually like, but he is nearly identical to Martell Webster (minus the back injury and larger contract). Freeland is filler. CJ's rookie season was not inspiring at all.

How about some draft picks (read: 1st rounders, even if protected) instead?

I think a pick could be included in that possibly... it would depend a lot.

CJ is probably a lot better than Portland or Washington fans are comfortable assuming. That is, he's the kind of player I think real NBA front offices will value more than fans making armchair GM offers (from both the Portland and the Washington side).

And yes, this scenario is based around a situation where Ariza has been brainwashed/convinced that Portland is home.

I'd do that trade yesterday for McCollum. Kids a stud and he'd be a Reggie Jackson tiered 6th man for us one day.

Wiz fans on this board have been so ridiculously out of sight out of mind in regards to prospects that didn't put up great numbers last year. Both Porter and CJ were in bad positions. They are much better than what they showed.

There's no way Portland says yes though. Without an elite shot creator he becomes a net negative offensively. He'd be a bad sixth man.

On a bench where he's ALWAYS playing with either Mo Williams or Damian Lillard, I don't think that's much of an issue.

Ariza actually lets Portland possibly move Batum to our bench which makes him a super-sub that fixes almost ALL our problems with our bench, in which case Ariza spends most of his time playing with Lillard.