2019 Minor Leagues/Prospect Discussion Thread

[Avenger]

Really? That's an interesting perspective. So a pitcher that goes 7 innings one night and 2 innings the next is just as consistent as a guy who goes 6 innings one game and 8 the next?

A Clayton Kershaw or Yu Darvish don't usually have games where they get chased in 2 innings giving up 6 runs, its not because they're consistent, its because they're good. J.A Happ has a game like yesterday and then the next start he gives up 7 runs in 4 innings, its not because he's inconsistent, its because he's mediocre.

Tell me which numbers are incorrect.

Pretty much all of them but why don't you go through them yourself, compare his NL numbers and his AL East numbers, there's no difference he might have actually gotten better.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... position=P
And compare his numbers with other AL East pitchers, i already did the work for you which you conveniently ignored and pretended that they don't exist. There's 8 SP pitchers worse than JA Happ in the AL East, one on our own team and somehow he's a AAAA pitcher for you, what is anyone supposed to say to that ridiculous argument.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=18,d

[Lateral Quicks]

Really? That's an interesting perspective. So a pitcher that goes 7 innings one night and 2 innings the next is just as consistent as a guy who goes 6 innings one game and 8 the next?

A Clayton Kershaw or Yu Darvish don't usually have games where they get chased in 2 innings giving up 6 runs, its not because they're consistent, its because they're good. J.A Happ has a game like yesterday and then the next start he gives up 7 runs in 4 innings, its not because he's inconsistent, its because he's mediocre.

Tell me which numbers are incorrect.

Pretty much all of them but why don't you go through them yourself, compare his NL numbers and his AL East numbers, there's no difference he might have actually gotten better.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... position=P
And compare his numbers with other AL East pitchers, i already did the work for you which you conveniently ignored and pretended that they don't exist. There's 8 SP pitchers worse than JA Happ in the AL East, one on our own team and somehow he's a AAAA pitcher for you, what is anyone supposed to say to that ridiculous argument.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=18,d

So because J.A. Happ is outperforming guys like Jake Peavy in less than half a season of pitching means he's a solid #5? That's a fascinating argument. I'm surprised we're even having this debate, given Happ has barely been able to hold down a starting job since becoming a Blue Jay. Let's go through your list one by one.

Chris Tillman - last year put up WAR of 4.4 (Happ's career WAR is < 6)
Erik Bedard - has had good career, only pitching now because TB is desperate (hell, they're so desperate they might even consider J.A. Happ!)
Jake Peavy - career WAR of 35; enough said
Miguel Gonzalez - agreed, he sucks
Bud Norris - OK, he sucks too
Ubaldo Jimenez - prized free agent, career WAR of over 20
Vidal Nuno - rookie, has plenty of rope
R.A Dickey - two years removed from Cy Young, has big conract

So out of a bunch of guys with either much better track records, higher contracts, or rookies/inexperienced, Happ is better than them based on a single metric over barely more than a handful of starts, meaning he's a legit #5 (or #4 even). OK then.

And no, Happ has not been better as a Blue Jay. The statistics I'm looking at have gotten worse, not better. Adjusted for quality of opposition? Perhaps.

[Avenger]

okay, we'll leave it that then, i don't think even you understand your line of argument, i'm not sure how i can, because citing track records of old pitchers who are worse than Happ currently does absolutely nothing to refute my argument that Happ is absolutely an AL East #5 pitcher.

Trust me, i've made more controversial arguments and proclamations in the past, the idea that Happ is a passable #5 pitcher in the AL East is conservative and self evident, i really didn't think anyone would take such offence to that.

[Lateral Quicks]

okay, we'll leave it that then, i don't think even you understand your line of argument, i'm not sure how i can, because citing track records of old pitchers who are worse than Happ currently does absolutely nothing to refute my argument that Happ is absolutely an AL East #5 pitcher.

Trust me, i've made more controversial arguments and proclamations in the past, the idea that Happ is a passable #5 pitcher in the AL East is conservative and self evident, i really didn't think anyone would take such offence to that.

As I said, the argument is that most of the guys you brought up as being worse than Happ in the East (based on a single metric, mind you) have been worse over a small sample size, and still have jobs because they either 1. Unlike Happ, have good track records; 2. Like Happ, have unmoveable contracts; and 3. Are rookies/inexperienced.

Aren't you the one that's critical of using small sample sizes all the time? Your entire flawed argument is based on a small sample size. Happ has sucked his entire career, and continues to suck here, only moreso.

[Moxie]

I visit this thread to deliriously dream that Dalton Pompey is a 7 WAR centerfielder, not to subject myself to J.A. Happ's career numbers! My eyes are bleeding!

[Schad]

DJ Davis hit his sixth home run. That's good. He also recorded his 105th strikeout. That's really, really bad.

Richard Urena, who really ought to go by Dick, hit his first homer stateside.

Franklin Barreto continues to see his BABIP come to earth rather dramatically after his unsustainable start. He's also continuing to hit a ridiculous number of doubles...he now has seven on the year, five in nine games. 10.44% of his plate appearances have ended in doubles thus far; for the sake of comparison, when Earl Webb set the all-time single-season mark for doubles back in 1931, back when the baseball was made of orphans, he hit a double in 10.17% of his plate appearances.

[Randle McMurphy]

Aren't you the one that's critical of using small sample sizes all the time? Your entire flawed argument is based on a small sample size. Happ has sucked his entire career, and continues to suck here, only moreso.

He has a career 4.39 FIP (better than that as a Jay). He's a fine #5 starter, always has been.

[Graham's Cracker]

Nice start today for Gabryszwski 6IP-7H-2ER-1BB-7K.

He's been really strong this month. In 29 IP he's given up 30 hits and 3 walks, 8 earned runs while striking out 26. a K/9 of 8.07 and a ridiculous BB/9 of 0.93. The big knock on him has always been his inability to miss bats, so it's nice to see that K rate to come around.

On the flipside, a rough go for Smoral. Still got most of his outs by way of the strikeout though.

2.1IP-6H-4ER-4BB-5K

[dagger]

Two other notables in late-night action


Buffalo won in 13 innings, and A.J. Jimenez went 4-6, raising his average to .280.

Jairo Labourt threw six hitless, scoreless innings for Vancouver, walking three and striking out six.

[Lateral Quicks]

Two other notables in late-night action


Buffalo won in 13 innings, and A.J. Jimenez went 4-6, raising his average to .280.

Jairo Labourt threw six hitless, scoreless innings for Vancouver, walking three and striking out six.

If only Jimenez could take a walk. Only 88 walks in almost 1700 MILB plate appearances is a ridiculous number. It's hard to be a meaningful contributor offensively if you don't hit for power or get on base. He's looking like a backup at this point.

[dagger]

Norris went a strong five.

5IP, 1R, 1ER, 3H, 2BB, 6K, one pickoff

Was a one hitter until two out in the 5th when he gave up a 2-out double on a pitch outside the strike zone, and then gave up a bloop double followed by a four-pitch walk before getting the third out on a grounder.

83-56

Next scheduled start for him is the 4th of July.

[vaff87]

Norris went a strong five.

5IP, 1R, 1ER, 3H, 2BB, 6K, one pickoff

Was a one hitter until two out in the 5th when he gave up a 2-out double on a pitch outside the strike zone, and then gave up a bloop double followed by a four-pitch walk before getting the third out on a grounder.

83-56

Next scheduled start for him is the 4th of July.

Really looking forward to seeing where he's ranked when the next top prospect lists come around. He's been incredible this year. Have to think he's close to a consensus as the Jays top prospect.

[Avenger]

Given how desperate the Jays are for a lefty reliever, its pretty tempting to consider calling up Norris and puting him in the bullpen. Drew Hutchison only made 6 AA starts before he got called up to start in the big leagues, with his stuff i'm pretty sure Norris can get lefties out right now.

[dagger]

Given how desperate the Jays are for a lefty reliever, its pretty tempting to consider calling up Norris and puting him in the bullpen. Drew Hutchison only made 6 AA starts before he got called up to start in the big leagues, with his stuff i'm pretty sure Norris can get lefties out right now.

Pretty sure they won't do that = unless and until, like Stroman, it's a look-see-get-acquainted before moving him into the rotation. More likely to happen late this year or in 2015.

Cecil is starting his rehab tomorrow in BUF, so hopefully that will help out with the LH bullpen before long

[g_greg]

I went to the Fisher Cats game today and got to see Norris pitch. He looked really good for the most part. Dalton Pompey didn't get on base so I didn't get to see any "flashes of promise" today. He hit one grounder (infielder bobbled it) but couldn't beat it out.


http://i.imgur.com/RZdX6ZG.jpg

Rest of the album here: http://imgur.com/a/g9sNJ

[There There]

Solid outing again for Evan Smith today and all things considered, also for Brentz.

Smith went five, allowed five hits, walked three ( two in his final inning ) and struck out five.

Brentz allowed one hit, walked three and hit a guy while striking out five in the final four.

Deiferson Barreto hit his first pro homer.

[Graham's Cracker]

Nice outing for Sanchez today. Pitched 7 IP and walked just 1. Had a WP, a Balk and a HBP...but just one walk. 7 hits, 3 runs, 2 strikeouts. 56 strikes and 83 pitches.

[dagger]

Sanchez had a two hit shutout through five, gave up two runs in the sixth and one in the seventh and left in favour of ... Brett Cecil ... to start the eighth with BUF leading 4-3. At one point, he had a ridiculous 11-1 GO-AO. Came a little unhinged in the seventh with an HPB, balk, walk. But seemed to be a solid performance, though a low strikeout one (2K). Didn't get the W because Cecil gave up a homer in the eighth.

[Graham's Cracker]

Sanchez had a two hit shutout through five, gave up two runs in the sixth and one in the seventh and left in favour of ... Brett Cecil ... to start the eighth with BUF leading 4-3. At one point, he had a ridiculous 11-1 GO-AO. Came a little unhinged in the seventh with an HPB, balk, walk. But seemed to be a solid performance, though a low strikeout one (2K). Didn't get the W because Cecil gave up a homer in the eighth.

Good to see Cecil throwing again. Although the results weren't great. We need an effective Cecil back in Toronto.

[Moxie]

Sanchez throwing strikes! I'll take it!