Hornets Sign Lance Stephenson 3y/27.5 mil (p67)

[MasterIchiro]

Clifford is good, but he can't perform magic. That is a horrible defensive team. Josh McRoberts is the 2nd best defender in the starting lineup.

I don't think Hayward is a significant downgrade from Henderson's slow ass on the defensive end and I don't think Parsons is enough of a downgrade over MKG to not make up for it in offense. We play team defense. As an organization we might not place the same value on individual defense. Clifford brought us that luxury and we move into the new wave of NBA, passers and range shooters, playmakers, inside/outside offense, disciplined team defense. This MKG scare where we implode as a team is a hoax. It's the biggest hoax in all of sports. Yankees fans used to claim if they let Arod walk after he opted out, they couldn't win a world series without him even though they forgot they won 26 up to that point in 2008. That's the only bigger hoax I can think of.

A bigger hoax would be that we can win with our only above average defender being an undersized point guard. Sure you could stop some teams. But who's guarding LeBron? Who's stopping Carmelo? You saw the playoffs this year. When MKG came out Miami did whatever they wanted. You can preach team defense all you want, but you can't just trot out a bunch of average to downright awful defenders and expect to succeed.

Well that's what makes superstars so valuable, no individual can stop them when they're on, not even MKG as evidenced by Melo + Lebron pouring shots over him.

The only elite defender on the Spurs is Leonard and Lebron averaged like 30 against them. And Leonard is a 2-way player.

[ARHornet]

I don't think Hayward is a significant downgrade from Henderson's slow ass on the defensive end and I don't think Parsons is enough of a downgrade over MKG to not make up for it in offense. We play team defense. As an organization we might not place the same value on individual defense. Clifford brought us that luxury and we move into the new wave of NBA, passers and range shooters, playmakers, inside/outside offense, disciplined team defense. This MKG scare where we implode as a team is a hoax. It's the biggest hoax in all of sports. Yankees fans used to claim if they let Arod walk after he opted out, they couldn't win a world series without him even though they forgot they won 26 up to that point in 2008. That's the only bigger hoax I can think of.

A bigger hoax would be that we can win with our only above average defender being an undersized point guard. Sure you could stop some teams. But who's guarding LeBron? Who's stopping Carmelo? You saw the playoffs this year. When MKG came out Miami did whatever they wanted. You can preach team defense all you want, but you can't just trot out a bunch of average to downright awful defenders and expect to succeed.

Well that's what makes superstars so valuable, no individual can stop them when they're on, not even MKG as evidenced by Melo + Lebron pouring shots over him.

The only elite defender on the Spurs is Leonard and Lebron averaged like 30 against them. And Leonard is a 2-way player.

Did I ever say we had to have all elite defenders? Leonard is elite but he's got 3 other above average to very good defenders beside him in the starting lineup. Parker is the only one I wouldn't put in that category. So right there, the Spurs have 4 guys that are better than our second best guy and arguably just as good as our best defender.

[MasterIchiro]

A bigger hoax would be that we can win with our only above average defender being an undersized point guard. Sure you could stop some teams. But who's guarding LeBron? Who's stopping Carmelo? You saw the playoffs this year. When MKG came out Miami did whatever they wanted. You can preach team defense all you want, but you can't just trot out a bunch of average to downright awful defenders and expect to succeed.

Well that's what makes superstars so valuable, no individual can stop them when they're on, not even MKG as evidenced by Melo + Lebron pouring shots over him.

The only elite defender on the Spurs is Leonard and Lebron averaged like 30 against them. And Leonard is a 2-way player.

Did I ever say we had to have all elite defenders? Leonard is elite but he's got 3 other above average to very good defenders beside him in the starting lineup. Parker is the only one I wouldn't put in that category. So right there, the Spurs have 4 guys that are better than our second best guy and arguably just as good as our best defender.

Vonleh can become an elite defender. Sprinkle in a couple bench guys as defense specialists.

[ARHornet]

Well that's what makes superstars so valuable, no individual can stop them when they're on, not even MKG as evidenced by Melo + Lebron pouring shots over him.

The only elite defender on the Spurs is Leonard and Lebron averaged like 30 against them. And Leonard is a 2-way player.

Did I ever say we had to have all elite defenders? Leonard is elite but he's got 3 other above average to very good defenders beside him in the starting lineup. Parker is the only one I wouldn't put in that category. So right there, the Spurs have 4 guys that are better than our second best guy and arguably just as good as our best defender.

Vonleh can become an elite defender. Sprinkle in a couple bench guys as defense specialists.

Vonleh can. I'm judging that lineup based on the right now and I don't expect him to contribute much this year. But the potential is there.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying about the importance of team defense. I just feel like you've got to have more average or better defenders to make it work. And as our roster stands now, I feel like the best thing to do is put a scoring/offensive wing beside MKG and let them play off each others' strengths. I would fear replacing him with a guy who plays no defense would ultimately do more harm than good. Don't get me down as a MKG or bust guy. I know he could be upgraded. I just would like that upgrade to be someone who is at least above average defensively.

[MasterIchiro]

Did I ever say we had to have all elite defenders? Leonard is elite but he's got 3 other above average to very good defenders beside him in the starting lineup. Parker is the only one I wouldn't put in that category. So right there, the Spurs have 4 guys that are better than our second best guy and arguably just as good as our best defender.

Vonleh can become an elite defender. Sprinkle in a couple bench guys as defense specialists.

I feel like the best thing to do is put a scoring/offensive wing beside MKG and let them play off each others' strengths.

Well right now MKG's shot is broken and we are a win-now team so maybe it's bad timing. Maybe that's the question the front office has been grappling with. Is it worth keeping MKG on the floor and play 4 on 5 defenders when they can bring in a player who exhausts opposing defenses with his floor spacing, playmaking and range shooting even if he is average on defense.

Defenses get a huge breather with MKG on the floor and that's very much a part of the equation imo.

[ARHornet]

Vonleh can become an elite defender. Sprinkle in a couple bench guys as defense specialists.

I feel like the best thing to do is put a scoring/offensive wing beside MKG and let them play off each others' strengths.

Well right now MKG's shot is broken and we are a win-now team so maybe it's bad timing. Maybe that's the question the front office has been grappling with. Is it worth keeping MKG on the floor and play 4 on 5 defenders when they can bring in a player who exhausts opposing defenses with his floor spacing, playmaking and range shooting even if he is average on defense.

Defenses get a huge breather with MKG on the floor and that's very much a part of the equation imo.

Oh I agree. It's a question to be asked. I would say yes, his defensive contributions are worth it, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me and I get that. As I said, I'm not attached to him. If we have a chance to upgrade him then let's do it. I'm just not entirely convinced that replacing him with a guy who is the exact opposite (all offense, no defense) is really the best thing for us.

I'm fine with bringing in a guy like Parsons. But I'd like to see him playing with MKG, not above him. With Clifford's system of 1 guard and 2 wings I feel like MKG and Parsons could play together without a problem.

[MasterIchiro]

I feel like the best thing to do is put a scoring/offensive wing beside MKG and let them play off each others' strengths.

Well right now MKG's shot is broken and we are a win-now team so maybe it's bad timing. Maybe that's the question the front office has been grappling with. Is it worth keeping MKG on the floor and play 4 on 5 defenders when they can bring in a player who exhausts opposing defenses with his floor spacing, playmaking and range shooting even if he is average on defense.

Defenses get a huge breather with MKG on the floor and that's very much a part of the equation imo.

Oh I agree. It's a question to be asked. I would say yes, his defensive contributions are worth it, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me and I get that. As I said, I'm not attached to him. If we have a chance to upgrade him then let's do it. I'm just not entirely convinced that replacing him with a guy who is the exact opposite (all offense, no defense) is really the best thing for us.

I'm fine with bringing in a guy like Parsons. But I'd like to see him playing with MKG, not above him. With Clifford's system of 1 guard and 2 wings I feel like MKG and Parsons could play together without a problem.

Who is all offense, no defense?

[BeesWax]

Vonleh can become an elite defender. Sprinkle in a couple bench guys as defense specialists.

I feel like the best thing to do is put a scoring/offensive wing beside MKG and let them play off each others' strengths.

Well right now MKG's shot is broken and we are a win-now team so maybe it's bad timing. Maybe that's the question the front office has been grappling with. Is it worth keeping MKG on the floor and play 4 on 5 defenders when they can bring in a player who exhausts opposing defenses with his floor spacing, playmaking and range shooting even if he is average on defense.

Defenses get a huge breather with MKG on the floor and that's very much a part of the equation imo.

Or maybe they are thinking can we afford to kill our defense, the reason we won most games, just to up the scoring some. The math person in me says scoring and extra 7 points isn't worth it if you give up an extra 8. Maybe that is just me but I thought the goal was to out score opponents and you could do it by stopping them as easily as trying to out run them.

[MasterIchiro]

I feel like the best thing to do is put a scoring/offensive wing beside MKG and let them play off each others' strengths.

Well right now MKG's shot is broken and we are a win-now team so maybe it's bad timing. Maybe that's the question the front office has been grappling with. Is it worth keeping MKG on the floor and play 4 on 5 defenders when they can bring in a player who exhausts opposing defenses with his floor spacing, playmaking and range shooting even if he is average on defense.

Defenses get a huge breather with MKG on the floor and that's very much a part of the equation imo.

Or maybe they are thinking can we afford to kill our defense, the reason we won most games, just to up the scoring some. The math person in me says scoring and extra 7 points isn't worth it if you give up an extra 8. Maybe that is just me but I thought the goal was to out score opponents and you could do it by stopping them as easily as trying to out run them.

Yeah defense is so important which is why you're such a huge fan of giving opposing defenses a rest when MKG is out on the court. Thank God Clifford yanked his no shooting ass through 4th quarters. We needed something to stop tired defenses from taking cigarette breaks out there with MKG on the floor and some way to stop them from practicing their parallel parking when MKG had the ball in his hands. You're like the waterboy for opposing defenses you love them so much.

[BeesWax]

Well right now MKG's shot is broken and we are a win-now team so maybe it's bad timing. Maybe that's the question the front office has been grappling with. Is it worth keeping MKG on the floor and play 4 on 5 defenders when they can bring in a player who exhausts opposing defenses with his floor spacing, playmaking and range shooting even if he is average on defense.

Defenses get a huge breather with MKG on the floor and that's very much a part of the equation imo.

Or maybe they are thinking can we afford to kill our defense, the reason we won most games, just to up the scoring some. The math person in me says scoring and extra 7 points isn't worth it if you give up an extra 8. Maybe that is just me but I thought the goal was to out score opponents and you could do it by stopping them as easily as trying to out run them.

Yeah defense is so important which is why you're such a huge fan of giving opposing defenses a rest when MKG is out on the court. Thank God Clifford yanked his no shooting ass through 4th quarters. We needed something to stop tired defenses from taking cigarette breaks out there with MKG on the floor and some way to stop them from practicing their parallel parking when MKG had the ball in his hands. You're like the waterboy for opposing defenses you love them so much.

Oh you mean that quarter we lost at over the course of the season. Total +\- of -.4 per game vs +1.5 for the first when MKG played more. That quarter?

[mrknowitall215]

No need to argue logistics and semantics with people that don't value defense. It's such a refrain to the superficial that it's almost difficult to debate since the typical fan only understand that basketball is about outscoring your opponent

[MasterIchiro]

Or maybe they are thinking can we afford to kill our defense, the reason we won most games, just to up the scoring some. The math person in me says scoring and extra 7 points isn't worth it if you give up an extra 8. Maybe that is just me but I thought the goal was to out score opponents and you could do it by stopping them as easily as trying to out run them.

Yeah defense is so important which is why you're such a huge fan of giving opposing defenses a rest when MKG is out on the court. Thank God Clifford yanked his no shooting ass through 4th quarters. We needed something to stop tired defenses from taking cigarette breaks out there with MKG on the floor and some way to stop them from practicing their parallel parking when MKG had the ball in his hands. You're like the waterboy for opposing defenses you love them so much.

Oh you mean that quarter we lost at over the course of the season. Total +\- of -.4 per game vs +1.5 for the first when MKG played more. That quarter?

That's because our 4 on 5 offense was so exhausted having to dribble the ball into the ground, play Kemba 100 minutes and Al Jefferson overtime on the 2nd unit. Our offense was tired because we didn't have options and defenses were taking cigarette breaks and practicing parallel parking with MKG on the floor. You gonna sing them a lullaby to while they take a nap that's your priority.

[BeesWax]

Yeah defense is so important which is why you're such a huge fan of giving opposing defenses a rest when MKG is out on the court. Thank God Clifford yanked his no shooting ass through 4th quarters. We needed something to stop tired defenses from taking cigarette breaks out there with MKG on the floor and some way to stop them from practicing their parallel parking when MKG had the ball in his hands. You're like the waterboy for opposing defenses you love them so much.

Oh you mean that quarter we lost at over the course of the season. Total +\- of -.4 per game vs +1.5 for the first when MKG played more. That quarter?

That's because our 4 on 5 offense was so exhausted having to dribble the ball into the ground, play Kemba 100 minutes and Al Jefferson overtime on the 2nd unit. Our offense was tired because we didn't have options and defenses were taking cigarette breaks and practicing parallel parking with MKG on the floor. You gonna sing them a lullaby to while they take a nap that's your priority.

No I am going with your plan from now on. I will wear them out letting them score 130 a night and just lose fantastic games. How was MKG hurting us in his 24 minutes that badly? We were better by every offense to defense comparative stat there is when he played. I cant believe you were willing to give Zeller the starting nod despite his inability to score or play defense and yet one guy one our team that makes it better and you want him out. The rest teams were getting happened when everyone fell asleep after big Al's 17th pump fake from the wing. Right before he launched it to Kemba to heave up a last second prayer.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Funny how no one ever complains about playing 4-on-5 (or worse) on defense.

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[MasterIchiro]

Funny how no one ever complains about playing 4-on-5 (or worse) on defense.

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

It's because when you have Clifford as your coach and his team defense as the system, you don't have 4 defenders out there, you have 5, not one is clueless/perpetually out of position/not making effort. He hid Al Jefferson. All offenses play with 5 guys unfortunately. Guys who can't hit wide open shots from 15 feet out with every defender too far away to pick up the scent of an Elephant fart that just ate expired rancid Taco Bell, teeming with hostile species of bacterial microorganisms - they sit on the bench on every team except ours.

[TheKingofSting2]

Come on down Lance, you are the missing piece!

[LofJ]

Your anti MKG crusade has become tiring Ichrio. Sure he was our 3rd most impactful player last year at 20 years old, but because he can't shoot we should just get rid if him. Frankly that's stupid if you ask me.

[Bassman]

The discussion about Hyphen illustrates why we need Lance so badly. With him we still start MKG and hope he contributes more offensively while bringing all his defense and rebounding, but his scoring can be a natural part of his game (slashing to the basket and shorter uncontested jumpers) versus trying to make distance shots. Lance gives us better shooting and triple threat options than Hendo, which helps spread the floor for everyone. Lance also brings lock-up D. He is THE fit for our team.

Interesting that we hear nothing in leaks about contact with him or his agent. I actually think that is a good thing.

[MasterIchiro]

The discussion about Hyphen illustrates why we need Lance so badly. With him we still start MKG and hope he contributes more offensively while bringing all his defense and rebounding, but his scoring can be a natural part of his game (slashing to the basket and shorter uncontested jumpers) versus trying to make distance shots. Lance gives us better shooting and triple threat options than Hendo, which helps spread the floor for everyone. Lance also brings lock-up D. He is THE fit for our team.

Interesting that we hear nothing in leaks about contact with him or his agent. I actually think that is a good thing.

The silence could be per request as the Hornets might have a situation where they're still trying to move Henderson and negotiations are sensitive. Or they don't want their pursuit of Lance to be a spectacle that humiliates Henderson since Henderson may still be on the team. They could have major boners for this guy for all we know. I think this one will be kept quiet if it's Lance. We've heard the Livingston rumor but no big name yet. If it were Parsons, we'd hear about it because MKG doesn't have the same place on the pecking order as Henderson - our longest tenured player

[MasterIchiro]

Your anti MKG crusade has become tiring Ichrio. Sure he was our 3rd most impactful player last year at 20 years old, but because he can't shoot we should just get rid if him. Frankly that's stupid if you ask me.

Stupid is a word you should omit from your vocabulary with me. I never said 'just get rid of him'. I'd want something in return and I stated Gordon Hayward. Frankly the Jazz would laugh in my face if that was my offer.