CBA Doesn't Allow Prearranged Restructured Contracts

[Heat3]

The only people claiming collusion and CBA violations are bitter Cleveland fans and heat haters on the GB. There hasn't been one valid media source breathe a single word about possible violations by the heat, yet there have been 5+ threads on it over the past 72 hours and it's the same few posters crying foul each time.

No, reporters are saying things were prearranged. Heat fans are praising Riley for it. When the issue of violating the CBA comes up, the response some combination "everyone does it" or "you can't prove it".

The heat were fined for violating the CBA when they hired Riley,.

Riley has been penalized for circumventing the salary cap in the past

4 years ago the heat gave away many draft picks to make tampering charges go away.

They are clearly at it again.

And I don't believe Christopher Reina, who wrote the article, is a Cavs fan.

you kidding me? they gave up draft picks so they could sign and trade lebron/bosh to the max deals. do you think Cleveland and Toronto would have cooperated in helping either of these guys for less? jeez it's pretty easy to see why nba reporters get away with saying anything. the audience is easy to fool.

[INKtastic]

4 years ago the heat gave away many draft picks to make tampering charges go away.

Ummmm they did sign and trades for Lebron and Bosh but 2nd rd picks don't make tampering charges go away, this is 100% false.

The Heat gave away 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks for players they had the cap space to sign outright. One of those picks was a lottery pick that turned into Jonas Valanciunas (the Heat owned the raptors 2011 pick and sent it back to them).

[EscapoTHB]

What's the difference between what the Heat are doing with their players and what the Mavs are doing with Nowitzki right now?

Why do the Spurs have Parker, Ginobilli, and Duncan all at reduced numbers?

[INKtastic]

you kidding me? they gave up draft picks so they could sign and trade lebron/bosh to the max deals. do you think Cleveland and Toronto would have cooperated in helping either of these guys for less? jeez it's pretty easy to see why nba reporters get away with saying anything. the audience is easy to fool.

That was the cover story. They didn't give away 4 first round draft picks and 2 second round draft picks simply to give LeBron and Bosh an extra option year that they would never even get to. Everyone knew they tampered. Riley even held a meeting with LeBron during the season he was employed by the cavs. The sign and trades ended all talk of filing tampering charges.

[Vides990]

4 years ago the heat gave away many draft picks to make tampering charges go away.

Ummmm they did sign and trades for Lebron and Bosh but 2nd rd picks don't make tampering charges go away, this is 100% false.

The Heat gave away 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks for players they had the cap space to sign outright. One of those picks was a lottery pick that turned into Jonas Valanciunas (the Heat owned the raptors 2011 pick and sent it back to them).

Mia needed that space so they could sign Lebron/Bosh to the max's they wanted, getting rid of the rookie contracts keeps that room open. I forgot the 1st rds but its still the norm and what most teams do when signing and trading players.

[Dr Aki]

circumstantial evidence is just that, circumstantial evidence

there's still no actual evidence

I don't care terribly much about this issue since everybody cheats (seriously, everybody cheats) but you should realize that circumstantial evidence is, in fact, "actual" evidence. The fact that Haslem and wade opted out of contracts more lucrative than what they could command in the open market is pretty good evidence of an improper agreement and is pretty damning. Evidence of actions taken against the actor's interest is about the best evidence you can have. If you think that "evidence" means somebody has to admit it, or there has to be a secret videotape, or whatever, then you are badly mistaken.

But, if I ever get in trouble, trust me, I want you on my jury. As long as nobody saw me do it, I guess I'm walking.


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if you get in trouble and there's no direct evidence, merely hearsay and circumstantial evidence, i believe you deserve to get off, because how do i really know you're actually guilty?

the reason circumstantial evidence isn't just "still evidence" is that there is absolutely nothing tying them to the actual crime, like someone said before, that's direct evidence.

there are different tiers of evidence, much the same as anecdotal evidence is not the same as peer-reviewed randomised controlled trials.

circumstantial evidence might be something like you were at the scene of the crime when the crime happened, but they can't prove it's you who did it (i.e. murder weapon without your prints or DNA on it).

that said, i understand everyone's trepidation over the matter. like the OJ simpson murder trial, there was only circumstantial evidence available. now, i don't think anyone really believes OJ simpson didn't kill his wife, but with only circumstantial evidence to go on, the jury had to acquit. right? wrong? where does the rule of law end and where does a kangaroo court begin?

again, i stress that the NBA has acted on this rule before, in the case of minnesota and joe smith. the only precedent this has happened was only because joe smith couldn't keep his mouth shut (he confessed).

it didn't act, when RJ opted out of 15 mil owed and signed for 39 mil over 4 years. and it won't act when wade and haslem do the same thing

[Vides990]

you kidding me? they gave up draft picks so they could sign and trade lebron/bosh to the max deals. do you think Cleveland and Toronto would have cooperated in helping either of these guys for less? jeez it's pretty easy to see why nba reporters get away with saying anything. the audience is easy to fool.

That was the cover story. They didn't give away 4 first round draft picks and 2 second round draft picks simply to give LeBron and Bosh an extra option year that they would never even get to. Everyone knew they tampered. Riley even held a meeting with LeBron during the season he was employed by the cavs. The sign and trades ended all talk of filing tampering charges.

I'll take my tinfoil hat too please.

[INKtastic]

Ummmm they did sign and trades for Lebron and Bosh but 2nd rd picks don't make tampering charges go away, this is 100% false.

The Heat gave away 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks for players they had the cap space to sign outright. One of those picks was a lottery pick that turned into Jonas Valanciunas (the Heat owned the raptors 2011 pick and sent it back to them).

Mia needed that space so they could sign Lebron/Bosh to the max's they wanted, getting rid of the rookie contracts keeps that room open. I forgot the 1st rds but its still the norm and what most teams do when signing and trading players.

They didn't trade any 2010 picks, they traded two 2011 picks, a 2013 pick, and a 2015 pick. Nothing they did mattered in signing LeBron and Bosh. The league will only investigate tapering of a team involved files charges, both teams involved got the the first round draft picks that would have been the Heat's penalty for tampering.

[KI-DW-TT-AB]

What's the difference between what the Heat are doing with their players and what the Mavs are doing with Nowitzki right now?

Why do the Spurs have Parker, Ginobilli, and Duncan all at reduced numbers?

Because their contracts weren't prearranged.

When it was time to sign Duncan, they agreed to a deal.

When it was time to sign Parker, same.

Manu too.

3 different occasions independent of each other or any other contract, the pay cut was to be able to remain flexible, but with no actual players in mind or anything like that.

Also, none of them opted out of larger per year contracts to sign longer ones that are less per year.

same with Nowitzki.

[Vides990]

The Heat gave away 4 first round picks and 2 second round picks for players they had the cap space to sign outright. One of those picks was a lottery pick that turned into Jonas Valanciunas (the Heat owned the raptors 2011 pick and sent it back to them).

Mia needed that space so they could sign Lebron/Bosh to the max's they wanted, getting rid of the rookie contracts keeps that room open. I forgot the 1st rds but its still the norm and what most teams do when signing and trading players.

They didn't trade any 2010 picks, they traded two 2011 picks, a 2013 pick, and a 2015 pick. Nothing they did mattered in signing LeBron and Bosh.

The years don't matter, future past whatever, my point is that when teams Sign and Trade players picks get swapped, its been happening forever and will continue to do so. Just because Mia was involved doesn't mean its a conspiracy.

[Vides990]

What's the difference between what the Heat are doing with their players and what the Mavs are doing with Nowitzki right now?

Why do the Spurs have Parker, Ginobilli, and Duncan all at reduced numbers?

Because their contracts weren't prearranged.

When it was time to sign Duncan, they agreed to a deal.

When it was time to sign Parker, same.

Manu too.

3 different occasions independent of each other or any other contract, the pay cut was to be able to remain flexible, but with no actual players in mind or anything like that.

Also, none of them opted out of larger per year contracts to sign longer ones that are less per year.

same with Nowitzki.

Do you really think that Parker, Duncan, and Ginobli didn't have talks and discussions with eachother on what to do with their contracts just because they happened at a separate times? These guys see eachother everyday ofcourse they discussed their options, Parker taking 12 million was a joke.

[INKtastic]

Mia needed that space so they could sign Lebron/Bosh to the max's they wanted, getting rid of the rookie contracts keeps that room open. I forgot the 1st rds but its still the norm and what most teams do when signing and trading players.

They didn't trade any 2010 picks, they traded two 2011 picks, a 2013 pick, and a 2015 pick. Nothing they did mattered in signing LeBron and Bosh.

The years don't matter, future past whatever, my point is that when teams Sign and Trade players picks get swapped, its been happening forever and will continue to do so. Just because Mia was involved doesn't mean its a conspiracy.

the years do matter, only moving a 2010 pick (player just taken) does anything to clear cap space to sign players in 2010. Moving those picks hurt the heat significantly. Having Valanciunas instead of Oden could have made a huge different in the finals. And they pick they still owe will hurt them if LeBron and Bosh end up leaving.

[KI-DW-TT-AB]

What's the difference between what the Heat are doing with their players and what the Mavs are doing with Nowitzki right now?

Why do the Spurs have Parker, Ginobilli, and Duncan all at reduced numbers?

Because their contracts weren't prearranged.

When it was time to sign Duncan, they agreed to a deal.

When it was time to sign Parker, same.

Manu too.

3 different occasions independent of each other or any other contract, the pay cut was to be able to remain flexible, but with no actual players in mind or anything like that.

Also, none of them opted out of larger per year contracts to sign longer ones that are less per year.

same with Nowitzki.

Do you really think that Parker, Duncan, and Ginobli didn't have talks and discussions with eachother on what to do with their contracts just because they happened at a separate times? These guys see eachother everyday ofcourse they discussed their options, Parker taking 12 million was a joke.

Sure but is that enough? & even if they did they didn't make it so obvious, Spurs did it smart just like how they do it on the court, Heat are playing ISO & shot clock is running out right now, when Spurs did it they made a few passes & executed their play. They played chess, Heat is playing checkers.

The league doesn't like be made a mockery out of, well, Stern didn't mind on few occasions, but Silver is extremely careful & handles everything in best possible way to make the league look good.

Considering how much bad rep the league got when the Heat's big 3 formed, I wouldn't be surprised if Silver did something just to make the league look good. Everything from Sterling to Isaiah Austin, the man is a chess player.

[Blame Rasho]

You can't prove hearsay. Unless you have one of them talking about it on the radio or tv, where do you get your burden of proof? In the end nba isn't going to get PIs to check every deal that gets made.

[king_james_vers]

Even if prearranged contracts are prohibited, how would you ever prove it? Instead of announcing the contract immediately after the start of free agency, the team could agree to the contract, but delay the announcement a day or two to give the illusion that they waited.

[Heat3]

They didn't trade any 2010 picks, they traded two 2011 picks, a 2013 pick, and a 2015 pick. Nothing they did mattered in signing LeBron and Bosh.

The years don't matter, future past whatever, my point is that when teams Sign and Trade players picks get swapped, its been happening forever and will continue to do so. Just because Mia was involved doesn't mean its a conspiracy.

the years do matter, only moving a 2010 pick (player just taken) does anything to clear cap space to sign players in 2010. Moving those picks hurt the heat significantly. Having Valanciunas instead of Oden could have made a huge different in the finals. And they pick they still owe will hurt them if LeBron and Bosh end up leaving.

They didn't have a 2010 first round pick!!! They traded it away before the draft to clear cap space. They traded picks to the cavs and raptors so that they could get Lebron and Bosh's bird rights and offer them an extra year. Are you arguing that the Cavs and Raptors would in fact have taken fewer draft picks to help Miami/Lebron/Bosh get the max contracts but because of "tampering" they decided they wanted more?

i think you are seriously underestimating how little miami cares about draft picks. Riley traded a 1st away just to get rid of Antoine Walker in 2009. That really hurt us in the long run huh? The picks we have given up and and still owe are worthless to Miami when compared to what we got in return. LOL...in 19 damn years I can only think of 3 players of significance that Miami has drafted: Wade, Caron Butler, Beasley and Beasley is a bust. That poor drafting has hurt Miami right? Only 3 times have we missed the playoffs in that period.

[SJSF]

Having 4players opt out and take less money on the same team at the same time. It Is pretty obvious. I for one want them to sign Wade and Bosh to long term deals. They aren't that good. The Heat is a one player team. Bosh isn't giving up 42m to not make 60 or more.

[Altered_Beast]

I guess u should call silver and tell him

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[INKtastic]

They didn't have a 2010 first round pick!!! They traded it away before the draft to clear cap space. They traded picks to the cavs and raptors so that they could get Lebron and Bosh's bird rights and offer them an extra year. Are you arguing that the Cavs and Raptors would in fact have taken fewer draft picks to help Miami/Lebron/Bosh get the max contracts but because of "tampering" they decided they wanted more?

i think you are seriously underestimating how little miami cares about draft picks. Riley traded a 1st away just to get rid of Antoine Walker in 2009. That really hurt us in the long run huh? The picks we have given up and and still owe are worthless to Miami when compared to what we got in return. LOL...in 19 damn years I can only think of 3 players of significance that Miami has drafted: Wade, Caron Butler, Beasley and Beasley is a bust. That poor drafting has hurt Miami right? Only 3 times have we missed the playoffs in that period.

I replied to a post that claimed this

Mia needed that space so they could sign Lebron/Bosh to the max's they wanted, getting rid of the rookie contracts keeps that room open. I forgot the 1st rds but its still the norm and what most teams do when signing and trading players.

I know they didn't have a 2010 pick, which is why the trade had nothing to do with that.

They didn't give them an extra year that will never be seen. I'm saying the Cavs and Raptors both opted to take the picks instead of pursuing the tampering charges because that worked out better for them. Had they gone the tampering route, the heat might forfeit picks, the Cavs and Raptors don't get those picks, they are just gone. The heat would lose the players, the players would sign elsewhere.

The heat themselves really had no reason to give away so many picks. They gave the cavs 4 picks plus a pick swap. They gave the raptors 2 picks including a lottery pick. The heat would have been far better off keeping those 6 picks and signing LeBron and Bosh with the exact same cap space they had to use to take the players in the sign and trade.

This has gotten way sidetracked, the issue is what is happening now, not what happened 4 years ago.

[Blame Rasho]

What's the difference between what the Heat are doing with their players and what the Mavs are doing with Nowitzki right now?

Why do the Spurs have Parker, Ginobilli, and Duncan all at reduced numbers?

Because their contracts weren't prearranged.


When it was time to sign Duncan, they agreed to a deal.

When it was time to sign Parker, same.

Manu too.

3 different occasions independent of each other or any other contract, the pay cut was to be able to remain flexible, but with no actual players in mind or anything like that.

Also, none of them opted out of larger per year contracts to sign longer ones that are less per year.

same with Nowitzki.

Do you really think that Parker, Duncan, and Ginobli didn't have talks and discussions with eachother on what to do with their contracts just because they happened at a separate times? These guys see eachother everyday ofcourse they discussed their options, Parker taking 12 million was a joke.

Ok... I am getting tired of people being ignorant and put posting stupid things about the Spurs. I was having a trip people talking out of their asses with the Spurs and their contracts in the collusion thread.

Did you know that Parker got an extension during the 2010 season that everyone agreed was fair? No, because it doesn't jive with your clueless narrative.

Why don't you take a look at how everyone was outraged with the Parker extension. You are on the ball... what a joke...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1062579


You want to talk about Duncan... he took a paycut after making over 20 million dollars in his last year of his 2 year extension from 100 million dollar contract that he signed in 2003. I guess you wanted him to go the Kobe route and get 30 million dollars despite his declining production and less and less mins played. It was the classic smaller contract for smaller production deal that countless of other stars have done at their tail end of their career. How important was it? I couldn't even find a thread about it with anyone praising it or bashing it on the general board in 2012.

Oh... yeah... Ginobili

You know the guy who got 7 million dollars this past offseason after a horrible finals and constant injuries. It was considered a overpay since no team other than the Spurs were going to throw big numbers at his age(35) and injury history.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1263500

So stop with the absurdity or you know what... you can keep talking as if you know what you are talking about while proving your ignorance and that goes for everyone...hahahaha