Sources say LeBron to seek Max Deal

[K_ick_God]

^Misses the point. They're getting an unfair advantage.

[GONYK]

^Misses the point. They're getting an unfair advantage.

Whatever advantage they have, it comes from all the players wanting to be back and Miami wanting them back.

We don't share those circumstances.

[KnicksGadfly]

Not even a 5 year /30 million would work just fine for bargs giving knicks 18 million to start Leborn contract at and follow by resigning Melo


Stat 4 yr/40
Bargs 5 yr/30
Melo 5 yr /100
Leborn 5 yr/100




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Good point.

Phil: Lebron, you want to be known as the GOAT? Carry Bargs and Stat to a championship, and no one will ever dispute your greatness.

[siar617]

The good thing for us is he is seeking a two year deal with an option after the first. Just enough time to prove Phil knows what he is doing.

Where did you hear that he is seeking an opt-out after the first? The problem with that (I think but don't know for sure) is that he wouldn't be able to get an opt-out next summer on a long-term deal. It'd have to be 1 plus an option.

Live in Miami its on talk radio

[aj49689]

I would rather the Knicks plan for the future. Keep and acquire more draft picks, let stat and brags go into free agency. This is contract year for stat so he might really try to step it up, but if he get injured again, I don't want to see him on the bench for 4 more years. First we need to see if Melo is staying or going. I am not at all happy with Stats/brags contracts or the fact that they opted-in. Kevin Love, Durant and Melo would be a nice big 3 if it ever becomes possible with the way things are going.

[kosmovitelli]

If Knicks did the violative thing Riley probably did, you can be sure it would get quickly stricken down and severely punished.

If Stern were still in charge, the Knicks would be stripped of all picks until 2030.

Stern didn't even punish us for Isiah holding illegal draft workouts

LOL

Yep. All this talk about the Heat cheating is pretty stupid.

I remember Knicks fans salivating at the idea of Paul, Melo and Amare playing together when CP3 joked at Melo's wedding they would form a big 3 and play together ! There's really nothing wrong with what they did. It's not even about Riley, everybody knows Lebron's the GM of that team. If he wants Wade to be offered a max contract he will get it, if he wants Wade out of Miami, Riley will accomodate him...You just have 3 players who have been outplayed and embarassed in the NBA Finals and are looking to give their team enough flexibility to bring help.

The league would investigate a situation where a player would leave his team and take less money with another team and then score a lucrative long term deal with Bird rights (similar to Joe Smith in Minny) one or two years after. The NBA won't care about 3 max players who exercised their right to become free agents and decided to do what's best for their team. There's no true circumvention of the salary cap. If Amare opted out and the Knicks offered him a four-year contract worth $60 million, it wouldn't be investigated either. Verbal agreements before free agency are common in the NBA and all teams do that. Just like the refs don't blow the whistle during the last two minutes of a game unless there's a clear and obvious foul, the league won't investigate stuff like that during free agency unless a team went too far and did what other teams usually won't do. Agreements on future contracts are illegal in the NBA and the league would severely punish a team that signed a player for cheap with a promise he will get a lucrative deal in one or two years. Here we're talking about players who opted out a few days before free agency and elaborated a plan to strengthen their team. No big deal. It happens all the time.

Anyway, about the subject at hand, I'm not surprised at all Lebron wants the max. I expected Wade and Bosh to take a paycut, not him. Not him. No reason for him to take a paycut. He's the best player in the NBA. Whevever he goes, his team will be a championship contender. It's up to Wade and Bosh to sacrifice money if they want to win more rings.

[LJ4pointplay]

Basically agreed with everything you said Kosmo.

I think the relevance of a likely literal violation (even if unenforced) is that it speaks to the motivation of the Miami guys to make this thing look more uncoordinated than it is. Specifically, the subject of the thread- LeBron seeking the max. I doubt he is, I think he is looking to take a pay cut along with Wade and Bosh, but prefers for this to look more uncoordinated.

Either way, we will know soon enough.

[suicidedeuce]

The league would investigate a situation where a player would leave his team and take less money with another team and then score a lucrative long term deal with Bird rights (similar to Joe Smith in Minny) one or two years after

As you know, full Bird Right takes 3 years for a free agent to acquire with a new team, and given the 'rational standard' I seriously doubt this would be investigated either.

If Lebron James came to NY on the cheap, you can make the 'rational' argument why he would do so on several fronts.

And you can't police NY differently than you do San Antonio.

I believe unless the NBA's hand is forced by a stupid act the NBA can't ignore, these CBA 'violations' are 'violations' that everyone in the game - players, agents, teams, leagues - know are not enforced, which in effect make it the league's REAL policy, that they're 'violations' in name only.

[K_ick_God]

The good thing for us is he is seeking a two year deal with an option after the first. Just enough time to prove Phil knows what he is doing.

Where did you hear that he is seeking an opt-out after the first? The problem with that (I think but don't know for sure) is that he wouldn't be able to get an opt-out next summer on a long-term deal. It'd have to be 1 plus an option.

Live in Miami its on talk radio

That would be a bombshell if it happens. A big one.

[LJ4pointplay]

From Section 2 of the CBA

No Unauthorized Agreements.
(a)

At no time shall there be any agreements or transactions of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), express or implied,oral or written, or promises, undertakings, representations, commitments,inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind (whetherdisclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), between a player (or any person orentity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, suchplayer) and any Team (or Team Affiliate):
(i)

concerning any future Renegotiation, Extension, or otheramendment of an existing Player Contract, or entry into anew Player Contract;

c)
A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by director circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that aPlayer Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally beexplained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b)

LOL, this post was basically turned into a wire-tap article:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234059/CBA-Explicit-In-Not-Allowing-Prearranged-Restructured-Contracts

[suicidedeuce]

The good thing for us is he is seeking a two year deal with an option after the first. Just enough time to prove Phil knows what he is doing.

Where did you hear that he is seeking an opt-out after the first? The problem with that (I think but don't know for sure) is that he wouldn't be able to get an opt-out next summer on a long-term deal. It'd have to be 1 plus an option.

Live in Miami its on talk radio

If this turns out to be accurate, then he's signing for a discount, no ifs ands or buts. He's opted out of a two-year deal with an option after the first.

This season was an ETO, next season was a player option.

He already had the same thing. They all did.

[K_ick_God]

If Stern were still in charge, the Knicks would be stripped of all picks until 2030.

Stern didn't even punish us for Isiah holding illegal draft workouts

LOL

Yep. All this talk about the Heat cheating is pretty stupid.

I remember Knicks fans salivating at the idea of Paul, Melo and Amare playing together when CP3 joked at Melo's wedding they would form a big 3 and play together ! There's really nothing wrong with what they did. It's not even about Riley, everybody knows Lebron's the GM of that team. If he wants Wade to be offered a max contract he will get it, if he wants Wade out of Miami, Riley will accomodate him...You just have 3 players who have been outplayed and embarassed in the NBA Finals and are looking to give their team enough flexibility to bring help.

The league would investigate a situation where a player would leave his team and take less money with another team and then score a lucrative long term deal with Bird rights (similar to Joe Smith in Minny) one or two years after. The NBA won't care about 3 max players who exercised their right to become free agents and decided to do what's best for their team. There's no true circumvention of the salary cap. If Amare opted out and the Knicks offered him a four-year contract worth $60 million, it wouldn't be investigated either. Verbal agreements before free agency are common in the NBA and all teams do that. Just like the refs don't blow the whistle during the last two minutes of a game unless there's a clear and obvious foul, the league won't investigate stuff like that during free agency unless a team went too far and did what other teams usually won't do. Agreements on future contracts are illegal in the NBA and the league would severely punish a team that signed a player for cheap with a promise he will get a lucrative deal in one or two years. Here we're talking about players who opted out a few days before free agency and elaborated a plan to strengthen their team. No big deal. It happens all the time.

Anyway, about the subject at hand, I'm not surprised at all Lebron wants the max. I expected Wade and Bosh to take a paycut, not him. Not him. No reason for him to take a paycut. He's the best player in the NBA. Whevever he goes, his team will be a championship contender. It's up to Wade and Bosh to sacrifice money if they want to win more rings.

Ahhh the ole "Everybody speeds so it's not really illegal" argument.

The NBA doesn't have a lot of patrol cars on the street looking for speeders, that's for sure, but if a flashy red sports car comes burning down the left lane at 95 MPH, he might draw the attention of law enforcement, crash into the guardrail, or have one of his fellow drivers give a call to 911.

My personal opinion is that what the Heat did here -- while almost certainly a violation of the literal language of the rulebook to anyone who has read the relevant language -- is probably not a case where the league would intervene. And if they do intervene, it won't be right now. The NBA is concerned about its image most of all -- it's a big business of course -- so if people aren't already clamoring, they are less likely to initiate action unless it is something they simply cannot ignore.

But it seems pretty obvious that the CBA makes what they did do a violation of the rules. And, most troubling, is that it really does confer an unfair advantage. If they can do it to keep LeBron, then why shouldn't the Knicks be able to go to Amar'e and Bargs, and ask them to opt out in order to take longer contracts, then give them a low cap hit this year so the Knicks can make room for LeBron (someone posted this last night and put up the simple math whereby the Knicks could try the same thing).

Just because the Heat already have these players under contract should not mean, and does not mean, that they should be able to manipulate and violate the rules in a way that the Knicks could not. If the Knicks asked Amar'e to opt out 1) to lower his cap hit and sign a longer deal (contract renegotiated as an inducement) to 2) sign LeBron (another inducement), it would be a clear violation and probably stopped/punished by the league. In this case, that's pretty much exactly what the Heat are doing. He's their player already, which makes coordination/communication easier, sure, but no less a violation of the league's own rules. It's like saying the rules surrounding fouls and timeouts change based on whether you're playing at home or on the road, where the home team gets an unfair advantage.

If I was a betting man, 2% chance the league steps in. But if Riley tries to give Wade a $9M contract or even a $12M contract, the odds go up appreciably.

[poeman]

I'd rather win a championship against LeBron then win with him.


Better yet...


I'd rather win a championship with Durant then with LeBron.

[suicidedeuce]

If they can do it to keep LeBron, then why shouldn't the Knicks be able to go to Amar'e and Bargs, and ask them to opt out in order to take longer contracts, then give them a low cap hit this year so the Knicks can make room for LeBron (someone posted this last night and put up the simple math whereby the Knicks could try the same thing).

What makes you think they can't, and didn't try?

If the Knicks asked Amar'e to opt out 1) to lower his cap hit and sign a longer deal (contract renegotiated as an inducement) to 2) sign LeBron (another inducement), it would be a clear violation and probably stopped/punished by the league.

During our friendly, respectful, healthy dialogue Monday I predicted the end result would eventually be you complaining that the Heat "violated" the rules and that the NBA didn't do anything about it because it's Pat Riley and the league wants to see the Heat in the finals again.

You're surprised me by not even waiting 24 hours.

You're manufacturing something to get indignant about - assuming if the Knicks did it, they'd get punished but the Heat won't.

That's just classic, textbook homerism.

[K_ick_God]

I'd rather win a championship against LeBron then win with him.


Better yet...


I'd rather win a championship with Durant then with LeBron.

Agree with you there. I'd rather beat Bron too. But he'd give us a nice shot at a title. Durant is a better guy too. Easier to root for.

[Bill Pidto]

Where did you hear that he is seeking an opt-out after the first? The problem with that (I think but don't know for sure) is that he wouldn't be able to get an opt-out next summer on a long-term deal. It'd have to be 1 plus an option.

Live in Miami its on talk radio

That would be a bombshell if it happens. A big one.

If that's true..

[mugzi]

That's just classic, textbook homerism.

[suicidedeuce]

That's just classic, textbook homerism.

Okay. Such as?

[K_ick_God]

During our friendly, respectful, healthy dialogue Monday, I made a number of misstatements, played dressup lawyer and drew conclusions in areas in which I have no expertise. I called things contracts that aren't contracts, gave knowingly false answers, and denied reality ... all to be able to say I'm the debating champion, no matter how obvious it was that my arguments had failed spectacularly.

Less than 24 hours later I am still sore that you respectfully but firmly debunked most of my main points and made me feel silly, and a little hurt inside.

In a last gasp effort to get in a gotcha on you before my time ran out, I sadly used a 9M cap hold for Dwyane Wade in a contrived effort to stick it to you, even though I had (no more than 5 minutes earlier) proclaimed that Wade will not play for anything close to these low numbers people are throwing around, with LeBron on a Max. Yes, I stooped that low -- to squarely contradict myself within 5 minutes -- just to be able to pronounce myself the winner.

Later that day, I manufactured some additional fabrications about how you were predicting that James would end up on the Knicks. This was a classic attempt at sore loser's revenge: Try to twist words or put them in other's mouth, in a frantic, last-ditch attempt to reclaim some footing that I lost yesterday with my series of poor arguments, lies, and accusations.

Oh, and we found out that the CBA not only prohibits oral promises and assurances, but any implied statements or even, apparently, subtle indications of one's intent. So I was terribly wrong on that count too.

I know you asked me to stop responding to you but since I have no control over myself, I think I'll just continue to make stuff up. How does that sound?

[suicidedeuce]

During our friendly, respectful, healthy dialogue Monday, I made a number of misstatements, played dressup lawyer and drew conclusions in areas in which I have no expertise. I called things contracts that aren't contracts, gave knowingly false answers, and denied reality ... all to be able to say I'm the debating champion, no matter how obvious it was that my arguments had failed spectacularly.

Less than 24 hours later I am still sore that you respectfully but firmly debunked most of my main points and made me feel silly, and a little hurt inside.

In a last gasp effort to get in a gotcha on you before my time ran out, I sadly used a 9M cap hold for Dwyane Wade in a contrived effort to stick it to you, even though I had (no more than 5 minutes earlier) proclaimed that Wade will not play for anything close to these low numbers people are throwing around, with LeBron on a Max. Yes, I stooped that low -- to squarely contradict myself within 5 minutes -- just to be able to pronounce myself the winner.

Later that day, I manufactured some additional fabrications about how you were predicting that James would end up on the Knicks. This was a classic attempt at sore loser's revenge: Try to twist words or put them in other's mouth, in a frantic, last-ditch attempt to reclaim some footing that I lost yesterday with my series of poor arguments, lies, and accusations.

I know you asked me to stop responding to you but since I have no control over myself, I think I'll just continue to make stuff up. How does that sound?

Sounds like a "violation" of the RealGM TOS.

I'll await the investigation.