Shaun Livingston - How Good Will He Be

[ICMTM]

The Kings are interested as reported by our man Amick:

The Kings are on the lookout for a starting point guard, and one name to keep an eye on is the Brooklyn Nets' Shaun Livingston. The 28-year-old free-agent-to-be whose career looked all but over in 2007 when he had a devastating leg injury while with the Los Angeles Clippers had his best season yet in 2014-15, helping the Nets turn their season around when he started in place of the injured Deron Williams and remaining a vital part of their program even after he returned.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... /11364675/

And then there is:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/483860338123616256[/tweet]

I watched him here and there this season and he looked extremely impressive within the flow of the offense. I think he torched us (going to look now as I was at that game). Anyhow how good do you think he's going to be seeing that this is probably the 1st time he's been a healthy NBA player since he was drafted?

[ICMTM]

Ok I looked... 5-6 in 15 minutes...not the torching I thought but I remember he was impressive.

[blind prophet]

Shaun Livingston to me seems like a too risky of a multi year deal. No long term experience reference, injury history. Could end up being a MT, JT, Landry 3.0.

No thanks with our contract clutter.

[teerfour+40LG]

Would be a huge improvement in the following areas if he replaced Ben McLemore: defense, passing, ball handling, veteran experience. We can't be sure what net impact he would have because he isn't at least a 30% three point shooter, but I'm sure it would still be positive.

[OGSactownballer]

I think if the deL is reasonable (ie not more than four mil more for no more than three years preferably with a team option third year) then it's a no brainer. He is 6'7" but can effectively guard pg's with no problem and is a good defender. Six if unspectacular on offense and doesn't need shots to be effective.

[SactownHrtBrks8]

I would be happy signing Livingston to a 3 year 14 million dollar deal. I would let IT go if that was the case or work a sign and trade

[blind prophet]

I would be happy signing Livingston to a 3 year 14 million dollar deal. I would let IT go if that was the case or work a sign and trade

What if Linvingston's close to 5 million deal keeps you from grabbing a 10 million dollar talent later?

[Ousher]

Would love him for around 5 mill a year. Plays within himself, good passer, ball handler, good defender for both guard position. His outside shooting is a problem (Made ONLY ONE 3-pointer in 1974 minutes last year), but if we lose IT, he would be great fit with Stauskas and BMac (if he improved his jumpshot)

[Koorverfor3]

He's not going to set the world on fire but he is everything the King's need.
Great Defender, pass first guard. Would be near perfect fit

Unlike Thornton and Thomas you can tell this guy actually has a BBall IQ and cares about the game. Having basketball almost taken away from him you can tell he plays every game with urgency

[SactownHrtBrks8]

I would be happy signing Livingston to a 3 year 14 million dollar deal. I would let IT go if that was the case or work a sign and trade

What if Linvingston's close to 5 million deal keeps you from grabbing a 10 million dollar talent later?

Kings have nearly 35 million in expiring contracts to work with. Do you think we are going to sign 10 million dollar talent later in free agency? We might trade for one but there will be no signing like that. Who would have thought we would have got Gay before the beginning of last year for the package we sent it out? Perspectives change within a few months

[blind prophet]

I would be happy signing Livingston to a 3 year 14 million dollar deal. I would let IT go if that was the case or work a sign and trade

What if Linvingston's close to 5 million deal keeps you from grabbing a 10 million dollar talent later?

Kings have nearly 35 million in expiring contracts to work with. Do you think we are going to sign 10 million dollar talent later in free agency? We might trade for one but there will be no signing like that. Who would have thought we would have got Gay before the beginning of last year for the package we sent it out? Perspectives change within a few months

Ok out of that 35 million, I would think Rudy or a big paid player to replace him takes close to 15 million of that.

So now you have 20 million left to fill out the roster.

Why castrate yourself by investing in mediocre talent and making it even worse?

His 5 million can keep you from landing a big talent upgrade, what's the point in signing role players at mid level contracts before you can even get a long term roster setup then spend accordingly?

[SactownHrtBrks8]

What if Linvingston's close to 5 million deal keeps you from grabbing a 10 million dollar talent later?

Kings have nearly 35 million in expiring contracts to work with. Do you think we are going to sign 10 million dollar talent later in free agency? We might trade for one but there will be no signing like that. Who would have thought we would have got Gay before the beginning of last year for the package we sent it out? Perspectives change within a few months

Ok out of that 35 million, I would think Rudy or a big paid player to replace him takes close to 15 million of that.

So now you have 20 million left to fill out the roster.

Why castrate yourself by investing in mediocre talent and making it even worse?

His 5 million can keep you from landing a big talent upgrade, what's the point in signing role players at mid level contracts before you can even get a long term roster setup then spend accordingly?

I can see him coming in helping with the Kings stagnate ball movement and providing decent defense from the PG position. Livingston played well for Brooklyn last year. The Kings need a player like that o get the ball to Cousins in the post. I was throwing out a contract, which would be the most I would be willing to pay, which when you root for the Kings it is always above market value, because you have to pay more to get free agents here. It sucks, I know. He will probably be getting offers of 2 year 7.5 million from other teams.

[blind prophet]

Kings have nearly 35 million in expiring contracts to work with. Do you think we are going to sign 10 million dollar talent later in free agency? We might trade for one but there will be no signing like that. Who would have thought we would have got Gay before the beginning of last year for the package we sent it out? Perspectives change within a few months

Ok out of that 35 million, I would think Rudy or a big paid player to replace him takes close to 15 million of that.

So now you have 20 million left to fill out the roster.

Why castrate yourself by investing in mediocre talent and making it even worse?

His 5 million can keep you from landing a big talent upgrade, what's the point in signing role players at mid level contracts before you can even get a long term roster setup then spend accordingly?

I can see him coming in helping with the Kings stagnate ball movement and providing decent defense from the PG position. Livingston played well for Brooklyn last year. The Kings need a player like that o get the ball to Cousins in the post. I was throwing out a contract, which would be the most I would be willing to pay, which when you root for the Kings it is always above market value, because you have to pay more to get free agents here. It sucks, I know. He will probably be getting offers of 2 year 7.5 million from other teams.

Ok you can argue a two year deal to me because if we need to move him he is an expiring on his second season.

I'd still say no, but logically you can maneuver on a two year deal.

I'm tired of the Jason Thompsons, the Landrys. the Thorntons, the Kenny Thomas, etc.

All we have done is handcuff ourselves with multi year garbage in free agency, I'd rather be flexible.

If it is not long term or a young kid, I want to stay far away until we have a roster built.

[SactownHrtBrks8]

Ok out of that 35 million, I would think Rudy or a big paid player to replace him takes close to 15 million of that.

So now you have 20 million left to fill out the roster.

Why castrate yourself by investing in mediocre talent and making it even worse?

His 5 million can keep you from landing a big talent upgrade, what's the point in signing role players at mid level contracts before you can even get a long term roster setup then spend accordingly?

I can see him coming in helping with the Kings stagnate ball movement and providing decent defense from the PG position. Livingston played well for Brooklyn last year. The Kings need a player like that o get the ball to Cousins in the post. I was throwing out a contract, which would be the most I would be willing to pay, which when you root for the Kings it is always above market value, because you have to pay more to get free agents here. It sucks, I know. He will probably be getting offers of 2 year 7.5 million from other teams.

Ok you can argue a two year deal to me because if we need to move him he is an expiring on his second season.

I'd still say no, but logically you can maneuver on a two year deal.

I'm tired of the Jason Thompsons, the Landrys. the Thorntons, the Kenny Thomas, etc.

All we have done is handcuff ourselves with multi year garbage in free agency, I'd rather be flexible.

If it is not long term or a young kid, I want to stay far away until we have a roster built.

Two year deals are better always better. For a guy like Livingston, you want a 2 year deal i agree

[blind prophet]

I can see him coming in helping with the Kings stagnate ball movement and providing decent defense from the PG position. Livingston played well for Brooklyn last year. The Kings need a player like that o get the ball to Cousins in the post. I was throwing out a contract, which would be the most I would be willing to pay, which when you root for the Kings it is always above market value, because you have to pay more to get free agents here. It sucks, I know. He will probably be getting offers of 2 year 7.5 million from other teams.

Ok you can argue a two year deal to me because if we need to move him he is an expiring on his second season.

I'd still say no, but logically you can maneuver on a two year deal.

I'm tired of the Jason Thompsons, the Landrys. the Thorntons, the Kenny Thomas, etc.

All we have done is handcuff ourselves with multi year garbage in free agency, I'd rather be flexible.

If it is not long term or a young kid, I want to stay far away until we have a roster built.

Two year deals are better always better. For a guy like Livingston, you want a 2 year deal i agree

We could always over pay at two years rather than do a 3 year, I suggested an overpay with JT on a two year deal rather than his 5, would the deal have taken place still?

I dunno, but let's hope our front office considers a 2 year over a 3-4.

[City of Trees]

His Per 36 Minutes for the past two years are:

11.3 pts
5.1 ast
4.5 reb
1.4 stl

Depending on how many minutes his knee can handle playing (he averaged 25mpg the past two seasons) I'd say his Per 36 numbers give us a good measure of expectations.

Sent from my SM-G900T using RealGM Forums mobile app

[teerfour+40LG]

Use per 100 possessions, which adjusts for pace.

[City of Trees]

Per 100 shows more production

16 pts
7.3 ast
6 reb
2.1 stl

[City of Trees]

At the same time IT's Per 100 is

30 pts
9 ast
4 reb
2 stl


So it's somewhat unrealistic in the sense of 1 game production.

[bleeds_purple]

I would be happy signing Livingston to a 3 year 14 million dollar deal. I would let IT go if that was the case or work a sign and trade

What if Linvingston's close to 5 million deal keeps you from grabbing a 10 million dollar talent later?

I hear you but at this point (1) we don't have cap space to offer 10 million to anyone - that would have to come in a trade (2) our roster is basically set and we are over the cap so why not use our exceptions to sign guys who can help get us competitive?

I was a proponent for the long term outlook that you suggested but I think the time for that is over - the owners want to compete right now. However, stupid that is we can debate that but at this point Livingston and/or McRoberts sound like great options for us with the stated goal in mind.