Fake Trade Thread 2014-15

[HornetJail]

CHA get: O.J. Mayo & John Henson

MIL get: Gerald Henderson & Cody Zeller

How many of us say 'no' and why? I'd happily say 'yes'. There's incentive reasons as to why the Bucks would do it

I think we could find a more constructive trade than this. Henson wouldn't have much more of a role than Zeller, and we add salary in a Mayo/Hendo swap. I don't think I want anyone from Milwaukee other than the "unattain-ables" in Giannis and Parker, and maybe Knight and Middleton. Nobody else on that team interests me much. I'd trade Hendo and Zeller for Knight and their 2015 2nd (which would probably be top 3)

[chabber]

The difference in salary between Zeller and Henson evens it back out. It's virtually a wash.

[catch20two]

CHA get: O.J. Mayo & John Henson

MIL get: Gerald Henderson & Cody Zeller

How many of us say 'no' and why? I'd happily say 'yes'. There's incentive reasons as to why the Bucks would do it

Hell to the yeah! That's a yes BTW. I don't understand the lovefest for Zeller. Better get out of that top 5 pick contract before that sh*t balloon up to 7 mil and it's too late. Henson is better than Zeller ever will be. Mayo and Hendo are both meh but Mayo is more skilled but his contract make them about even.

[Eoghan]

CHA get: O.J. Mayo & John Henson

MIL get: Gerald Henderson & Cody Zeller

How many of us say 'no' and why? I'd happily say 'yes'. There's incentive reasons as to why the Bucks would do it

Pretty sure MIL says no to that with the quickness.

[chabber]

I was thinking the same. Not sure why they'd want to take back Henderson and get rid of Henson. Maybe I'm not up on why they want to get rid of Mayo.

[mrknowitall215]

CHA get: O.J. Mayo & John Henson

MIL get: Gerald Henderson & Cody Zeller

How many of us say 'no' and why? I'd happily say 'yes'. There's incentive reasons as to why the Bucks would do it

Pretty sure MIL says no to that with the quickness.

Elaborate please. I think the Bucks would say 'yes' because they're desperately trying to get out of Mayo's contract almost as much as we are trying to get out of Henderson's. With Jabari Parker in the fold, it's almost a certainty that the Bucks won't be seriously going to the negotiating table for a extension with Henson, and taking on Zeller would allow them the chance to buy a few rookie contract years to gauge his potential, which was supposed to be higher than Henson's entering the NBA. Also, if I'm not mistaking, Zeller has a little fanbase out Milwaukee

[Eoghan]

Why would they give up two guys that can shoot for two guys that can't? Only if Milwaukee needs more brick layers to build a new arena, b/c that's what a roster of Knight, Hendo, Zeller, Sanders, Giannis, etc is going to do.

Kidd is running things over there now, even he knows the importance of stretching defenses with the 3 ball. Hendo is probably the most useless player in the league in his eyes.

[chabber]

Then this trade would keep their salary the same overall.

Henderson $2M less than Mayo, same amount of years.

Zeller is around $2M more than Henson.

Henson's extension comes up sooner but that is still 2 years away. Plus he's probably the better player.

I just don't see much insensitive to make this deal salary wise on their end unless they prefer Henderson and Zeller as players.

I'm on your side however, because I'd make the trade.

[Liver_Pooty]

CHA get: O.J. Mayo & John Henson

MIL get: Gerald Henderson & Cody Zeller

How many of us say 'no' and why? I'd happily say 'yes'. There's incentive reasons as to why the Bucks would do it

Pretty sure MIL says no to that with the quickness.

Elaborate please. I think the Bucks would say 'yes' because they're desperately trying to get out of Mayo's contract almost as much as we are trying to get out of Henderson's. With Jabari Parker in the fold, it's almost a certainty that the Bucks won't be seriously going to the negotiating table for a extension with Henson, and taking on Zeller would allow them the chance to buy a few rookie contract years to gauge his potential, which was supposed to be higher than Henson's entering the NBA. Also, if I'm not mistaking, Zeller has a little fanbase out Milwaukee

Its not like Hendersons contract is significantly better. Same length and 2 million less. Sure its better, but giving up someone like Henson who averaged 11/7/1.5 last year just to get rid of a contract and bring another terrible one on just wouldn't make sense for them.

[mrknowitall215]

Why would they give up two guys that can shoot for two guys that can't? Only if Milwaukee needs more brick layers to build a new arena, b/c that's what a roster of Knight, Hendo, Zeller, Sanders, Giannis, etc is going to do.

Kidd is running things over there now, even he knows the importance of stretching defenses with the 3 ball. Hendo is probably the most useless player in the league in his eyes.

I guess if Milwaukee's front office seen things the way most of our board does, they would do the trade. As of now, it appear that it's a 50/50 split on who would win the trade, and that make it a good enough bartered argument for me to view it as a possibility if it were proposed

[mrknowitall215]

Its not like Hendersons contract is significantly better. Same length and 2 million less. Sure its better, but giving up someone like Henson who averaged 11/7/1.5 last year just to get rid of a contract and bring another terrible one on just wouldn't make sense for them.

Henderson's attitude is significantly better than Mayo's right now. Mayo doesn't want to play for them, but I could see him switching that approach to return in better game shape and a positive inclination coming out of this offseason with Kidd on board as the head coach and the future star in the making Jabari Parker on the roster. Things are looking upwards for Milwaukee now rather than a rapid spiral downwards like last season

The Zeller-Henson swap is probably the most tricky part about the trade. It would have to come down to how the Bucks' front office view Zeller. I could imagine some people that are outsiders to Zeller's struggles in Charlotte might still see him as the once consensus #1 draft prospect of the 2013 draft class, while Henson may be ogled as a fringe starter that could be serviceable, but isn't a cornerstone. Young players that have delivered production on solid to above average efficiency get traded/released every year for whatever reasons. I'm still a little surprised that the Grizzlies just waive their restricted free agency rights to Ed Davis this offseason

[HornetJail]

I'm still a little surprised that the Grizzlies just waive their restricted free agency rights to Ed Davis this offseason

I'm not really surprised. Davis isn't that good, Memphis didn't play him a whole lot, and the Grizzlies are penny-pinchers to a maddening degree.
Either that, or they plan to re-sign Davis for less than his $4.3M qualifying offer.

[mrknowitall215]

I'm still a little surprised that the Grizzlies just waive their restricted free agency rights to Ed Davis this offseason

I'm not really surprised. Davis isn't that good, Memphis didn't play him a whole lot, and the Grizzlies are penny-pinchers to a maddening degree.
Either that, or they plan to re-sign Davis for less than his $4.3M qualifying offer.

It happens quite often. I was surprised when the Pistons traded a young & efficient Amir Johnson who they couldn't find minutes for in exchange for Fabricio Oberto a few years ago, and look how that turned out

You look at Ed Davis and think he "isn't that good", but I look at him and say "well, he's better than Cody Zeller". If there's one thing that can give you a platform on what a player could be in extended minutes, it's always efficiency in limited minutes. It's extremist difficulty to find a player that doesn't stay on par with his career PER throughout their career whether in limited or extended minutes. Davis has a career PER of 16 and that wouldn't change much with consistent playing time when you gauge the fact that he's capable on both ends of the floor

[HornetJail]

You look at Ed Davis and think he "isn't that good", but I look at him and say "well, he's better than Cody Zeller". If there's one thing that can give you a platform on what a player could be in extended minutes, it's always efficiency in limited minutes. It's extremist difficulty to find a player that doesn't stay on par with his career PER throughout their career whether in limited or extended minutes. Davis has a career PER of 16 and that wouldn't change much with consistent playing time when you gauge the fact that he's capable on both ends of the floor

I don't disagree that a 25-year-old Davis right now is better than a 21-year-old Zeller right now at this moment. But... Davis has had 4 years to prove himself, most of which came on a lottery team, and he hasn't even progressed since a run-of-the-mill rookie season. Zeller was a rookie, a full four years younger than Davis, and showed off potential if nothing more.

[mrknowitall215]

You look at Ed Davis and think he "isn't that good", but I look at him and say "well, he's better than Cody Zeller". If there's one thing that can give you a platform on what a player could be in extended minutes, it's always efficiency in limited minutes. It's extremist difficulty to find a player that doesn't stay on par with his career PER throughout their career whether in limited or extended minutes. Davis has a career PER of 16 and that wouldn't change much with consistent playing time when you gauge the fact that he's capable on both ends of the floor

I don't disagree that a 25-year-old Davis right now is better than a 21-year-old Zeller right now at this moment. But... Davis has had 4 years to prove himself, most of which came on a lottery team, and he hasn't even progressed since a run-of-the-mill rookie season. Zeller was a rookie, a full four years younger than Davis, and showed off potential if nothing more.

The day Zeller finishes a season with a PER above 15 will be the day I'd believe he could be a legit starter in the NBA. Like I've stated, I'm a big fan of PER although I don't limit my evaluation to it, but it shows consistency when a player can be that efficient for 4 straight years without wavering below what's considered average. When I delve into Davis' split stats, the only thing he's missing is consistent minutes. In the 58 games he's started in his career (54 w/ TOR, 4 w/MEM) he's averaged 11 points on 54% shooting and 8 rebounds in 31 minutes with a +3 net rating

[JDR720]

Cody's PER for the season was 13.12 and that is with him sucking hardcore monkey butt pre all-star break, McBob's per was 13.8

[HornetJail]

You look at Ed Davis and think he "isn't that good", but I look at him and say "well, he's better than Cody Zeller". If there's one thing that can give you a platform on what a player could be in extended minutes, it's always efficiency in limited minutes. It's extremist difficulty to find a player that doesn't stay on par with his career PER throughout their career whether in limited or extended minutes. Davis has a career PER of 16 and that wouldn't change much with consistent playing time when you gauge the fact that he's capable on both ends of the floor

I don't disagree that a 25-year-old Davis right now is better than a 21-year-old Zeller right now at this moment. But... Davis has had 4 years to prove himself, most of which came on a lottery team, and he hasn't even progressed since a run-of-the-mill rookie season. Zeller was a rookie, a full four years younger than Davis, and showed off potential if nothing more.

The day Zeller finishes a season with a PER above 15 will be the day I'd believe he could be a legit starter in the NBA. Like I've stated, I'm a big fan of PER although I don't limit my evaluation to it, but it shows consistency when a player can be that efficient for 4 straight years without wavering below what's considered average. When I delve into Davis' split stats, the only thing he's missing is consistent minutes. In the 58 games he's started in his career (54 w/ TOR, 4 w/MEM) he's averaged 11 points on 54% shooting and 8 rebounds in 31 minutes with a +3 net rating

It's not really realistic to ask every eventual starter to put up a 15 PER as a rookie.
Of rookies who played decent minutes this season, Zeller had the 5th highest PER at 13.1. Only Plumlee, MCW, and Olynyk had 15+ PERs.

PER is known to boost big men who strictly shoot in the paint and as a result have a high FG%. Look at Brandan Wright putting up 23.5 PER over the likes of LMA and Big Al. I haven't seen an argument outside of PER for Davis over Zeller.

[mrknowitall215]

Cody's PER for the season was 13.12 and that is with him sucking hardcore monkey butt pre all-star break, McBob's per was 13.8

I guess that's reason for optimism that I can agree with, and also why the Bucks might consider the trade. Also, a reason why I should just become content with what Zeller could be, but my gut feelings combined with my eye test of his game just don't view or feel positively about his prospective future. We'll see

[mrknowitall215]

I don't disagree that a 25-year-old Davis right now is better than a 21-year-old Zeller right now at this moment. But... Davis has had 4 years to prove himself, most of which came on a lottery team, and he hasn't even progressed since a run-of-the-mill rookie season. Zeller was a rookie, a full four years younger than Davis, and showed off potential if nothing more.

The day Zeller finishes a season with a PER above 15 will be the day I'd believe he could be a legit starter in the NBA. Like I've stated, I'm a big fan of PER although I don't limit my evaluation to it, but it shows consistency when a player can be that efficient for 4 straight years without wavering below what's considered average. When I delve into Davis' split stats, the only thing he's missing is consistent minutes. In the 58 games he's started in his career (54 w/ TOR, 4 w/MEM) he's averaged 11 points on 54% shooting and 8 rebounds in 31 minutes with a +3 net rating

It's not really realistic to ask every eventual starter to put up a 15 PER as a rookie.
Of rookies who played decent minutes this season, Zeller had the 5th highest PER at 13.1. Only Plumlee, MCW, and Olynyk had 15+ PERs.

I hope you're not seriously using this past year's draft class as a gauge of expectations to live up to. This past year's draft class was one of the worst ever. On the whim, without looking, I would probably trade the #5 pick from 2013 for the #20 pick from 2014 and feel good about it

[HornetJail]

Speaking of PER, Deandre Liggins set a new record this season, by playing one minute, grabbing a rebound, and sinking his only field goal. PER = 129.1