Melo #13: Believe in Joakim Noah & Crew

[Rerisen]

KC Johnson is co-hosting on 87.7 The Game right now. Apparently he has already said the following:

Chicago Bulls Zone ‏@TheBullsZone 8m

"Yesterday was described to me as the 'Perfect day'" (K.C. Johnson on 87.7 TheGame)

If anyone has the ability to listen in, please let us know what is being said.

How can it be the perfect day if we didn't get a commitment?

Maybe talking about the weather?

[ingvald]

Again don't agree with the above trade in terms of value but like I have been saying before. We disagree on when Melo will choose the bulls.

Melo isn't choosing the bulls at 4 years 60-70 million that would mean he would be leaving 60-70 million guaranteed money on the table. Way too much. Melo may decide to choose the bulls if they can get him 90+ million or close to his max for 4 years at 96 million.

That is when he would consider coming to the bulls. He still would be leaving 30+ million in guaranteed money (yes I know its an extra year but its still guaranteed money).

1st action is bulls get Melo the salary he wants

then and if only then Melo would decide to come to the bulls. Until them I think the point is mute.

That is just my take.

One key point you're leaving out is that the Knicks have not offered a max contract yet. There are reports Phil is willing to, other reports said he wanted him to take less.

But we do not know what the Bulls offered and we don't know what the Knicks' final offer will be. But as has been shown several times- the Bulls can easily pay him over $20M via S&T if that's the number.

Again- we have no idea how much he'd leave on the table to come to Chicago, Houston, Dallas, or LA.

[ikeziskash]

Chicago Bulls Rumors ‏@chicagobullsbot 3m
New York Knicks Carmelo Anthony final decision could come down to what La La Anthony wants - (Article: Mike McGraw) - http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2014 ... 140709738/ …

I don't think she wants to leave NY (damnit).

I want to win...unless my wife says no? Wow. Who is wearing the pants there?

[waffle]

but she would be a BIG DEAL in Chicago, immediately. NY has 4000 other LA LA's. Many younger and better looking....just sayin.

[DRoseCantStop]

Chicago Bulls Rumors ‏@chicagobullsbot 3m
New York Knicks Carmelo Anthony final decision could come down to what La La Anthony wants - (Article: Mike McGraw) - http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2014 ... 140709738/ …

I don't think she wants to leave NY (damnit).

Too damn bad.

[patagonia]

Teams doing a sign and trade for outgoing FAs always get crap. Don't know why Knicks fans think it would be any different this time.

[BullHeaded]

TBATANA: The Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement.

If the Bulls walk away from this because NY is asking for too many assets and we cannot get Melo without a S&T, I'd be mildly disappointed, but I'd also be looking forward to what the team looks like with Rose back in playing shape and I'd be excited about seeing whether Mirotic is the next coming of Tsakavili or Nowitzki.

If the Bulls feel the same way and are willing to walk away from outrageous demands, they'll probably get Melo from the Knicks without giving up the dry cleaners.

[D_GoLow]

not saying I would propose the above trade (think that is too much as well) - you can keep McDermott.

But Melo isn't going to Chicago without Taj. That has been pretty clear. So it would be no Melo for you as well.

If that is the case, so be it. We saw what happened when NY gave away the farm for a 26 year old Carmelo. The Bulls aren't going to do the same for a 30 year old version.

My preference was always for Love anyways. I suspect he could be had for less than Butler, Mirotic, McDermott and 3 first round picks.

obviously the difference would be Rose, Noah, and Gibson are all better than Amare. Which was the only piece the knicks had really after the trade. So as long as your were able to keep those 3 in tact (noah, rose, Gibson). Plus keep a couple young role players like Snell and McDermott as well as bringing in JR smith. You would still have 7 or 8 rotational players. As well as being about to offer a FA the full MLE which would be a really nice player as well. You would have the makings of a 8 or 9 man rotation that looks pretty solid.

which is why Mirotic, Butler, and Picks should be on the table, IMO.

If the Knicks & Bulls ever agree on a S&T this will have to be it. It works for both teams.

[fleet]

Chicago Bulls Rumors ‏@chicagobullsbot 3m
New York Knicks Carmelo Anthony final decision could come down to what La La Anthony wants - (Article: Mike McGraw) - http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2014 ... 140709738/ …

I don't think she wants to leave NY (damnit).

I don't doubt that she will probably either give a thumbs up or thumbs down. But Melo already knows what she wants as far as living arrangement. Believe that if you believe anything. So either this entire trip is a sham, and Melo is a douchebag like Lebron, or he has gotten permission from LaLa to make up his own mind on destination.

[RememberLu]

Chicago Bulls Rumors ‏@chicagobullsbot 3m
New York Knicks Carmelo Anthony final decision could come down to what La La Anthony wants - (Article: Mike McGraw) - http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2014 ... 140709738/ …

I don't think she wants to leave NY (damnit).

and she wasn't even part of the pitch yesterday.

[ikeziskash]

Dear Knicks fans, if Melo doesn't want to come back to you, you have NO LEVERAGE in trade demands. Deal with it.

[mpharris36]

Again don't agree with the above trade in terms of value but like I have been saying before. We disagree on when Melo will choose the bulls.

Melo isn't choosing the bulls at 4 years 60-70 million that would mean he would be leaving 60-70 million guaranteed money on the table. Way too much. Melo may decide to choose the bulls if they can get him 90+ million or close to his max for 4 years at 96 million.

That is when he would consider coming to the bulls. He still would be leaving 30+ million in guaranteed money (yes I know its an extra year but its still guaranteed money).

1st action is bulls get Melo the salary he wants

then and if only then Melo would decide to come to the bulls. Until them I think the point is mute.

That is just my take.

Does he sign a smaller contract with an opt out after 2 years when the new TV contract hits? Who knows what they are pitching. Anyway you look at it the Bulls are not going to give up that many assets.

that is what knicks fan said but when you are getting the best player in a deal. You always tend to cave a little in the end to get the deal done. It's like you can't go to your fan base and say. Hey we were 99% close to locking up Melo and Jimmy Butler or a late 2017 1st round pick came in the way.

I just don't see that happening. Every team will cave when they are in a deal when they are acquiring a top 10 talent.

[MGB8]

We're going to get a sign and trade with New York, because I'm still convinced that Jackson doesn't actually want Melo there. He'd rather free up the money and get a little something extra as well. Our work is going to come in with either getting NY to take Boozer, or having them sign off on a 3-way deal where someone else takes Boozer and they get other assets.

I hope you are right. I really do think that this is down to us or him staying in NY. I don't think Houston can offer significantly more money - maybe an extra million or 2 to start, but without as strong a group around him in terms of depth and role (assuming no sign and trades).

The Bulls offer 16.4 or so and the depth chart is:
pg: Rose, vetmin
sg: Butler, vetmin
sf: Melo, McBuckets
pf: Taj, Bear-Aussie
cc: Noah, vetmin

Houston's can offer (after moving Lin for no salary, but losing assets) 18.3-4
pg: Beverly, Nick Johnson
sg: Harden, vet min
sf: Melo, Casspi
pf: T.Jones, Moteijunas
cc: Howard, vet min

Now, that's not bad, and the 10 million or so over 4 years might, plus no state income tax (add in another 2 million) might sway Melo. But given overall fit (having to make sure all these other guys get their shots), going to the Western conference, and Melo's seeming like for real urban living (and while Chicago is reasonably comparable to NY, Houston is not - completely different style/feel)... I dunno, not that great.

And if he's not staying in NY, then chances are at the end it will be a sign and trade and the Bulls will send Snell, MJD, non-guaranteed and picks (Sactown, maybe one or two more) to NY for Melo, but have more ability to add other players, rather than just vet min guys (I guess there might be one exception left after that). Or potentially a 3 way deal where Boozer is "dumped" and the Bulls give away a pick for that, but then keep the MLE.

[WindyCityBorn]

not saying I would propose the above trade (think that is too much as well) - you can keep McDermott.

But Melo isn't going to Chicago without Taj. That has been pretty clear. So it would be no Melo for you as well.

If that is the case, so be it. We saw what happened when NY gave away the farm for a 26 year old Carmelo. The Bulls aren't going to do the same for a 30 year old version.

My preference was always for Love anyways. I suspect he could be had for less than Butler, Mirotic, McDermott and 3 first round picks.

I'm starting to not want Melo. Let the Knicks throw their future away on max deal. Call Minnesota up and offer Taj, Mirotic, unguaranteed contracts and 2 firsts for Love. I am willing to give up Love for Mirotic because the play the same position. Amnesty Boozer and sign Stephenson.

Noah/Smith
Love/Bairstow
Butler/McDermott
Rose/Sessions/Hinrich
Stephenson/Snell

[kdapiton]

Their graphic artists ain't got nothin on us.

it's so small

[DuckIII]

Bulls fans what do you think about this from the Knicks board

If we work with Chicago, then the IDEAL package is..

Boozer + Mirotic + McDermott + 2015 first + SAC 2015 fist + 2017 first + a couple of second round picks + Jimmy Butler

for

Melo (and JR if we can make it work under cap).

Absolutely not. I'd rather just move on to other free agents. Carmelo Anthony is without question Plan A, but he's one of many very good options for the Bulls. In fact, if the FO did something like that I'd be irate.

[mpharris36]

obviously the difference would be Rose, Noah, and Gibson are all better than Amare. Which was the only piece the knicks had really after the trade. So as long as your were able to keep those 3 in tact (noah, rose, Gibson). Plus keep a couple young role players like Snell and McDermott as well as bringing in JR smith. You would still have 7 or 8 rotational players. As well as being about to offer a FA the full MLE which would be a really nice player as well. You would have the makings of a 8 or 9 man rotation that looks pretty solid.

which is why Mirotic, Butler, and Picks should be on the table, IMO.

If the Knicks & Bulls ever agree on a S&T this will have to be it. It works for both teams.

thank you , it seems like the best common ground for both organizations.

[ingvald]

Dear Knicks fans, if Melo doesn't want to come back to you, you have NO LEVERAGE in trade demands. Deal with it.

Not true. If they need to participate in a S&T to get it done, they have some leverage. We just don't know how much leverage and what assets it would take to get a deal done.

[RememberLu]

not saying I would propose the above trade (think that is too much as well) - you can keep McDermott.

But Melo isn't going to Chicago without Taj. That has been pretty clear. So it would be no Melo for you as well.

If that is the case, so be it. We saw what happened when NY gave away the farm for a 26 year old Carmelo. The Bulls aren't going to do the same for a 30 year old version.

My preference was always for Love anyways. I suspect he could be had for less than Butler, Mirotic, McDermott and 3 first round picks.

I'm starting to not want Melo. Let the Knicks throw their future away on max deal. Call Minnesota up and offer Taj, Mirotic, unguaranteed contracts and 2 firsts for Love. I am willing to give up Love for Mirotic because the play the same position. Amnesty Boozer and sign Stephenson.

Noah/Smith
Love/Bairstow
Butler/McDermott
Rose/Sessions/Hinrich
Stephenson/Snell

but Melo > Love (for us)

[jmajew]

not saying I would propose the above trade (think that is too much as well) - you can keep McDermott.

But Melo isn't going to Chicago without Taj. That has been pretty clear. So it would be no Melo for you as well.

I think if you were to let us keep McDermott and take a pick away you would get closer to a realistic trade.

The sac pick is extremely heavily protected. And sending Boozer contract out (using last year GSW trade as an example took 2 1st's and 3 2nd's).

So lets say sending boozer out to a 3rd team would will take Your 2015 pick (swap with Cavs) + Sac Pick + a couple 2nd rounders (seems pretty fair).

Now S&T for Melo still would be required to get him his 20+ million (close if not 22 million). The trade would basically be Melo + JR for Mirotic, 2017 1st round pick, Butler, fillers. (seems pretty fair as well).

So if the knicks were willing to combine both trades to simplify the deal instead of going to a 3rd team and getting you the max for Melo in terms of the 125% trade kicker to send out more money in Melo's S&T.

The bulls would also get there exemptions and get to keep McDermott, Snell and bird rights to DJ Aug as well for depth purposes.

I think the point is the Bulls have other options and Bulls fans would prefer those other options and maybe so does our front office. It also depends on how big of a pay cut Melo is willing to take.

It is quite possible the Bulls could amnesty Boozer and trade Dunleavy and Randolph as a package to a team with cap space for next to nothing. That would allow Melo to start around 15 mil. If we dump Snell as well about 16.5 mil. At that point the Knicks have a choice as to weather or not call Melo's bluff on the pay decrease.

I think Knicks fans are working under the assumption Melo wants his 20 mil per year. I think Bulls fans are hoping he goes the same route as the Heatles and take less. Which way will Melo go...only Melo knows.