Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[dckingsfan]

If Melo opts-in they are going to get their cap space way down for next year to go after another player to compliment Melo.

If Melo opts-out, they are going to want assets for their expiring deals since they will be in full blown rebuild mode.

Jackson doesn't seem like a knucklehead GM thus far.

[Dark Faze]

If Melo opts-in they are going to get their cap space way down for next year to go after another player to compliment Melo.

If Melo opts-out, they are going to want assets for their expiring deals since they will be in full blown rebuild mode.

Jackson doesn't seem like a knucklehead GM thus far.

expirings aren't as valuable as they used to be--he's not going to get any significant assets for an injury plagued PF/C

if the second scenario happens he's just going to want short term salary to meet the salary floor...obviously he'd prefer a young, well paid prospect that accomplishes that but that's not going to happen

[Hypnotizer]

I don't like Nene for Ilyasova and the ballast at all. We need a PF good at defense. Nene can stop LeBron, Nene can stop DPOY Noah and he switches position with Gortat a lot. I don't see Ersan could be so effective as big Brazilian is.

Instead of that, I would highly suggest to try a Love for Nene + Porter move in the December-All Star Weekend window. Kevin is one of the best player in this league. I think Ilyasova would be a really bad move.

[dckingsfan]

If Melo opts-in they are going to get their cap space way down for next year to go after another player to compliment Melo.

If Melo opts-out, they are going to want assets for their expiring deals since they will be in full blown rebuild mode.

Jackson doesn't seem like a knucklehead GM thus far.

expirings aren't as valuable as they used to be--he's not going to get any significant assets for an injury plagued PF/C

if the second scenario happens he's just going to want short term salary to meet the salary floor...obviously he'd prefer a young, well paid prospect that accomplishes that but that's not going to happen

But if he doesn't get assets, then there is no reason to make the trade. Just have oodles of cap space the next year - right? So either way, the probability that NY does the trade is non-existent.

[Dark Faze]

If Melo opts-in they are going to get their cap space way down for next year to go after another player to compliment Melo.

If Melo opts-out, they are going to want assets for their expiring deals since they will be in full blown rebuild mode.

Jackson doesn't seem like a knucklehead GM thus far.

expirings aren't as valuable as they used to be--he's not going to get any significant assets for an injury plagued PF/C

if the second scenario happens he's just going to want short term salary to meet the salary floor...obviously he'd prefer a young, well paid prospect that accomplishes that but that's not going to happen

But if he doesn't get assets, then there is no reason to make the trade. Just have oodles of cap space the next year - right? So either way, the probability that NY does the trade is non-existent.

except there is a reason--the team has to meet the salary minimum as mandated by the league and their big free agent targets aren't available the summer amare expires. ideally they need cap filler that expires the year that they want to make moves...and nenes contract presents such a thing.

so they have three options

1. just forget about 2016 and get the best targets they can in a weak free agency class.
2. try to get a bunch of guys on one year deals (a headache as it can effect the tank)
3. trade for the sort of contract lengths/amounts they need ala Nene, all while preserving the tank

all of this is provided on them not keeping melo...which I doubt they do, but if they do then Phil should be making a call to Ernie to get it done.

Depends on if the Wiz have completely abandoned the durant dream though. we might be looking to just ride with who we have until 2016 also.

[LyricalRico]

If Melo opts-in they are going to get their cap space way down for next year to go after another player to compliment Melo.

If Melo opts-out, they are going to want assets for their expiring deals since they will be in full blown rebuild mode.

Jackson doesn't seem like a knucklehead GM thus far.

It's more than just Melo deciding to "opt in" - they are going to have to convince him to re-sign with them instead of going somewhere else. They've already shown a willingness to take on longterm salary by adding 3 more years of Jose Calderon, presumably as part of that convincing process.

And if LeBron indeed does sign a 2-year deal, then Phil would be foolish IMO to go all-in on 2015 cap space and bank everything on getting Kevin Love to sign with a lottery team. He'd be better off taking on 2 year deals (like Nene and others ) to make sure Melo feels the team is competitive enough to stay longterm, and then try to bring either LeBron or Durant to NY in 2016 to pair with Melo.

I don't think anyone would consider Phil to be a "knucklehead GM" if that was his end-game.

[dckingsfan]

If Melo opts-in they are going to get their cap space way down for next year to go after another player to compliment Melo.

If Melo opts-out, they are going to want assets for their expiring deals since they will be in full blown rebuild mode.

Jackson doesn't seem like a knucklehead GM thus far.

It's more than just Melo deciding to "opt in" - they are going to have to convince him to re-sign with them instead of going somewhere else. They've already shown a willingness to take on longterm salary by adding 3 more years of Jose Calderon, presumably as part of that convincing process.

And if LeBron indeed does sign a 2-year deal, then Phil would be foolish IMO to go all-in on 2015 cap space and bank everything on getting Kevin Love to sign with a lottery team. He'd be better off taking on 2 year deals (like Nene and others ) to make sure Melo feels the team is competitive enough to stay longterm, and then try to bring either LeBron or Durant to NY in 2016 to pair with Melo.

I don't think anyone would consider Phil to be a "knucklehead GM" if that was his end-game.

I doubt he is focused just on Lebron - and I doubt he wouldn't want to go all-in next year. And I certainly doubt that the signing of Nene would convince Melo to stay - history in Denver teaches us that. This is just not a good trade from the Knicks perspective.

[dckingsfan]

expirings aren't as valuable as they used to be--he's not going to get any significant assets for an injury plagued PF/C

if the second scenario happens he's just going to want short term salary to meet the salary floor...obviously he'd prefer a young, well paid prospect that accomplishes that but that's not going to happen

But if he doesn't get assets, then there is no reason to make the trade. Just have oodles of cap space the next year - right? So either way, the probability that NY does the trade is non-existent.

except there is a reason--the team has to meet the salary minimum as mandated by the league and their big free agent targets aren't available the summer amare expires. ideally they need cap filler that expires the year that they want to make moves...and nenes contract presents such a thing.

so they have three options

1. just forget about 2016 and get the best targets they can in a weak free agency class.
2. try to get a bunch of guys on one year deals (a headache as it can effect the tank)
3. trade for the sort of contract lengths/amounts they need ala Nene, all while preserving the tank

all of this is provided on them not keeping melo...which I doubt they do, but if they do then Phil should be making a call to Ernie to get it done.

Depends on if the Wiz have completely abandoned the durant dream though. we might be looking to just ride with who we have until 2016 also.

As we have seen with Asik, having cap space can allow you to bring on players that you couldn't bring on otherwise. So: 1. Gives them the most flexibility - in both 15 and 16... not "just forget about 2016"

The Zen Master doesn't make that deal - just not going to happen

[mhd]

When Bradley is getting 4/32, then Ariza is going to get at least 10 million a year. That's too rich for my blood.

In terms of S&T options, would GSW consider trading Barnes for Ariza? Barnes had a poor year last year, but I think he's under-valued, and he's cheap coming off his rookie contract. The Warriors do have that trade exception still.

[gambitx777]

I would love to trade Ariza for Barnes, plus wall and Barnes are friends, so he would probably sign off on the deal.

I am thinking of a double sign and trade.
NENE and Kevin for for Monroe and Jerebko.

Kevin at this QO and monroe for aobut 13-14 a year for 4-5 years.
NENE can be that vet off the bench big and he would mesh well with drummand and smith. plus kevin is a nice value piece for them.
We get Monroe and Jerebko could play better in a new city.

[payitforward]

I would love to trade Ariza for Barnes, plus wall and Barnes are friends, so he would probably sign off on the deal.

I am thinking of a double sign and trade.
NENE and Kevin for for Monroe and Jerebko.

Kevin at this QO and monroe for aobut 13-14 a year for 4-5 years.
NENE can be that vet off the bench big and he would mesh well with drummand and smith. plus kevin is a nice value piece for them.
We get Monroe and Jerebko could play better in a new city.

You want Barnes instead of Ariza? Both of you do?

Wow.... Not only is Harrison Barnes not as good as Trevor Ariza, he is not good period! Not even a little.

As to your proposed trade -- tell me you are not serious in thinking Detroit would make that trade. I'm not sure the worst GM in the league, whoever that is, on a day when he's drunk and someone just blinded him, not even on that day would he or anyone make this trade.

Monroe is a zillion times more valuable than Nene (which is not to say that he is great or anything), and Jerebko is more valuable than Seraphin by even more. Jerebko's baby sister is more valuable than Kevin -- and he doesn't even have one!

[Error Afflalo]

I would love to trade Ariza for Barnes, plus wall and Barnes are friends, so he would probably sign off on the deal.

I am thinking of a double sign and trade.
NENE and Kevin for for Monroe and Jerebko.

Kevin at this QO and monroe for aobut 13-14 a year for 4-5 years.
NENE can be that vet off the bench big and he would mesh well with drummand and smith. plus kevin is a nice value piece for them.
We get Monroe and Jerebko could play better in a new city.

You want Barnes instead of Ariza? Both of you do?

Wow.... Not only is Harrison Barnes not as good as Trevor Ariza, he is not good period! Not even a little.

As to your proposed trade -- tell me you are not serious in thinking Detroit would make that trade. I'm not sure the worst GM in the league, whoever that is, on a day when he's drunk and someone just blinded him, not even on that day would he or anyone make this trade.

Monroe is a zillion times more valuable than Nene (which is not to say that he is great or anything), and Jerebko is more valuable than Seraphin by even more. Jerebko's baby sister is more valuable than Kevin -- and he doesn't even have one!

I think we'd be better off with Matt Barnes.

[mhd]

Hmm, GSW still have that trade exception, and they need a 3rd big. Would they be interested in Nene?

Nene for Speights+Barnes works in the realgm trade checker.

NEW LINEUP for GSW:

PG: Curry/Livingston
SG: Thompson/Iggy
SF: Iggy/Green
PF: Lee/Nene/Green
C: Bogut/Nene/Festus

That team is a title contender.

For us, Speights expires (last year is a team option), and Barnes might reclamate his value. We could try and S&T Ariza for a big, or attempt to use the MLE on Humphries, Marvin Williams, etc.

NEW LINEUP:

PG: Wall/Miller
SG: Beal/Rice
SF: Barnes/Porter
PF: Speights/Gooden
C: Gortat/Seraphin

That team might make the playoffs in the EAST, but more importantly, we should have enough room to go after Love in FA.

[gambitx777]

Just to give you some context,
Barnes first 2 seasons in the nba are statistically better in most categories than arizas first 7, he has only been in the league 2 years, you guys have to realize that ariza want not that good in his first 2 years in the league. Barnes has a future in the league just like Ariza did.

[montestewart]

Just to give you some context,
Barnes first 2 seasons in the nba are statistically better in most categories than arizas first 7, he has only been in the league 2 years, you guys have to realize that ariza want not that good in his first 2 years in the league. Barnes has a future in the league just like Ariza did.

But Ariza's guaranteed future is in the past, while a failed past could still be Barnes' future. When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you.

[hands11]

Hands and PIF,

I agree that it makes sense to sign Ariza and Gortat just to retain control of them as an asset.

But there is a way we could benefit from letting Ariza walk: replace him with another good role player in FA this offseason that plays a different position and then have Porter emerge. It's risky. But it's doable. If I was Ernie, and the price tag on Ariza got to 9 or 10 million, I'd let him walk and go after Patrick Patterson and pray that Porter is as good as I thought he was when I drafted him.

Signing Ariza to 9 or 10 million annually is too risky IMO. We'd retain control of him as an asset, but that's buying high on him IMO and his value would decrease as time passed. An Ariza that's making 10 million a year but isn't playing like he did in a contract year suddenly becomes very hard to trade. He would be more liability than asset if it happened. And the league certainly has plenty of bad contracts where teams bought high on a role player and now they find them hard to move. Gerald Wallace, Jeff Green, Kevin Martin, OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, JJ Reddick, and Carl Landry all come to mind.

Right.

Retain him as an asset at a reasonable price is what I have been saying. I have him at 8M tops. Now if you have a sign and trade lined up and the other team doesn't mind signing him for more, that whatever.

But yeah, you are saying similar stuff. You don't want to sign him for to much and to long an be stuck with him as hard to move.

[hands11]

Hands and PIF,

I agree that it makes sense to sign Ariza and Gortat just to retain control of them as an asset.

But there is a way we could benefit from letting Ariza walk: replace him with another good role player in FA this offseason that plays a different position and then have Porter emerge. It's risky. But it's doable. If I was Ernie, and the price tag on Ariza got to 9 or 10 million, I'd let him walk and go after Patrick Patterson and pray that Porter is as good as I thought he was when I drafted him.

Signing Ariza to 9 or 10 million annually is too risky IMO. We'd retain control of him as an asset, but that's buying high on him IMO and his value would decrease as time passed. An Ariza that's making 10 million a year but isn't playing like he did in a contract year suddenly becomes very hard to trade. He would be more liability than asset if it happened. And the league certainly has plenty of bad contracts where teams bought high on a role player and now they find them hard to move. Gerald Wallace, Jeff Green, Kevin Martin, OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, JJ Reddick, and Carl Landry all come to mind.

This is not a trade but a thought, the rockets are playing fast and loose with Parsons hoping that he stays loyal to them while they try to sign a star and then hope that he takes what ever they can give him to come back and play on a big 3 like team. The problem there is a team can come in and steal him, because they would have to make a choice, nor could they match if he accepts a deal. SO I say we let Ariza walk and go to parsons and offer him 7-9 mill a year for 4 years, whatever we can. I would rather dump that money into a young guy like Parsons and hope he's worth it in the long run, instead of over paying Ariza. There is a good chance a team like us with a young core and solid vets, could steal him away. This is an opportunity and I hope we don't miss out on it.

I like the idea and posted the very same thing a few days ago.

Give them the old squeeze play. But I don't think we have the cap room to do it. But maybe with the trade exemption we have. Isn't it like 3M

Wall 13,701,250
Beal 4,505,280
Webster 5,150,000
Miller 4,600,000
Temple 473,500
G Rice 816,482
Otto 4,470,480
Nene 13,000,000
Gooden 724,000
Gortat 10,000,000
TPE -3,000,000

That would have us at 54M Cap at 63M

As for KD. If you have any inside information ( from Wall ) on if he would come here, you have to go for that. Love nor Melo are the personality fit that KD is. If you can get top talent and personality fit, that is way better then just talent.

[dckingsfan]

Do we have the payment terms of the Gortat contract yet - is it front or back loaded or a straight 12M per year?

[dckingsfan]

I currently have us at the following, am I making a mistake? I believe that veteran minimum contracts count against the cap but not against the luxury tax, correct?

Code: Select all

Nene             13,000,000
John Wall        13,701,250
Marcin Gortat    12,000,000
Martell Webster   5,381,750
Andre Miller      4,625,000
Bradley Beal      4,505,280
Otto Porter       4,470,480
Kevin Seraphin    3,898,692
Drew Gooden       1,448,490
Glen Rice           816,482
Total            63,847,424


[payitforward]

Just to give you some context,
Barnes first 2 seasons in the nba are statistically better in most categories than arizas first 7, he has only been in the league 2 years, you guys have to realize that ariza want not that good in his first 2 years in the league. Barnes has a future in the league just like Ariza did.

First off, back to school and a class on logic and inference. The fact that Ariza got better over time is no indication whatever that Harrison Barnes will also get better over time. Literally zero. If I have a steak for dinner tonight, does that mean you'll have one tomorrow night?

Secondly, no, unless you like to cherry pick, Barnes' numbers his first two years weren't better than Trevor's, they were worse both years. Fewer blocks, fewer steals, fewer rebounds, got to the line less. Keep in mind that Trevor did not shoot the 3 at all his first two years.

Trevor came into the league at 19. Barles came in a year older. Trevor made a significant productivity jump his third year and a big one his 4th year. No, that doesn't mean that Harrison Barnes will as well.

Doesn't mean he won't either. But if we're targeting young guys to replace Ariza, he isn't at the top of the list.