We should trade Monroe

Piston Pete · Post #1 » by **Piston Pete** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 5:57 am

Disclaimer: I'm a Monroe fan. I like him I just think his time here should be done - time for both sides to move on.

He wants MAX money, and a 15/9 PF/C who is a below-average defensively is not worth MAX money. If he was open to a lesser contract, then keeping him would be an easier pill to swallow. But he and his agent want MAX.

Between him and Drummond, I think we'd all choose to move forward with Drummond every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. And since the pairing doesn't work, we need to trade one of them. We should really be looking to deal Monroe for a young stud SF.

Smith is the better fit next to Drummond....and if it really has come down SVG realizing that he needs to trade either Smith or Monroe - we get the most value back by dealing Monroe.

Best-case scenario might be a 3-way deal that looks something like this:

TO HOUSTON: Melo
TO NYK: Monroe / HOU pick
TO DET: Parsons

Jennings / Bynum / Dinwiddie
KCP / Meeks
Parsons / Singler
Smith / Jerebko / Mitchell
Drummond / Harrellson

MotownMadness · Post #2 » by **MotownMadness** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:08 am

I have no problem paying him as long as Smith is gone. If we can't move Smith though then I want a sign and trade.

Post #3 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:08 am

Rockets have absolutely no need to be in a sign and trade to get Melo, by all accounts.

sdballer · Post #4 » by **sdballer** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:10 am

Snakebites wrote:Rockets have absolutely no need to be in a sign and trade to get Melo, by all accounts.

Details, details.

Piston Pete · Post #5 » by **Piston Pete** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:12 am

If Melo wants a 5th year, they do

mus123 · Post #6 » by **mus123** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:29 am

Falk was Hibbert's agent when Portland signed him to a max offer sheet???

Entourage27 · Post #7 » by **Entourage27** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 6:37 am

Stan is looking at it on a value basis when comparing the situations of Moose and Smoove.

He could've got Jason Thompson and Derrick Williams by trading away Smith or he could find a deal like the OP's proposed deal or possibly with the Blazers to maybe grab Batum for Monroe. The value in those scenarios would prove that you'd rather keep Smith and trade Monroe instead of keeping Monroe and trading Smith.

Spider156 · Post #8 » by **Spider156** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 9:08 am

This is exactly how I've felt since last season turned out to be a flunk. I wanted Monroe to be traded at the trade deadline just so we can get the most value for him.

Irate · Post #9 » by **Irate** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 9:22 am

Piston Pete wrote:If Melo wants a 5th year, they do

S&T deals can only be for 4 years now. The only way Melo gets 5 years is if he stays with the Knicks.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q90

Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons.

The Penguin · Post #10 » by **The Penguin** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 10:44 am

Spider156 wrote:This is exactly how I've felt since last season turned out to be a flunk. I wanted Monroe to be traded at the trade deadline just so we can get the most value for him.

"I could only use two phones at once and ordering a pizza AND Chinese takeout took priority over making any moves"

dan2314 · Post #11 » by **dan2314** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 10:49 am

Parsons is no where near the type of player who can be our only shot creator on the wing. We need someone there who can be a go to offensive player, since KCP is likely not a whole lot more than a spot up 3 point shooter on offense and a terrific defender. Without Monroe, we have no one at all we can look for to get us a bucket when the other team is getting control.

Parsons is great offensively when he's playing with 2 guys who are top 10 players, requiring double teams every time they touch the ball. Drummond, and maybe, hopefully, possibly Smith, (if Monroe is traded), should command a lot of attention inside, but with a lineup of jennings/pope/parsons/smith/drummond, our only hope to score would be for the defense to collapse enough that pope and parsons can get spot up opportunities, and then attack the closeouts well enough.

Unfortunately, this FA class really doesn't have much that would fix that hole, the closest thing is Gordon Hayward, but even he isn't terrific doing so. If you're trading Monroe, we need a better fit than Parsons in a trade. Just because he's a successful starting SF, and we currently don't have one, doesn't mean that's he's a good fit.

The Penguin · Post #12 » by **The Penguin** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 11:59 am

dan2314 wrote:Parsons is no where near the type of player who can be our only shot creator on the wing. We need someone there who can be a go to offensive player, since KCP is likely not a whole lot more than a spot up 3 point shooter on offense and a terrific defender. Without Monroe, we have no one at all we can look for to get us a bucket when the other team is getting control.

Parsons is great offensively when he's playing with 2 guys who are top 10 players, requiring double teams every time they touch the ball. Drummond, and maybe, hopefully, possibly Smith, (if Monroe is traded), should command a lot of attention inside, but with a lineup of jennings/pope/parsons/smith/drummond, our only hope to score would be for the defense to collapse enough that pope and parsons can get spot up opportunities, and then attack the closeouts well enough.

Unfortunately, this FA class really doesn't have much that would fix that hole, the closest thing is Gordon Hayward, but even he isn't terrific doing so. If you're trading Monroe, we need a better fit than Parsons in a trade. Just because he's a successful starting SF, and we currently don't have one, doesn't mean that's he's a good fit.

I don't agree at all. Your logic is basically "If it's not Lebron/Durant/Melo then what's the point?" Parsons numbers really didn't change much at all between the season before Dwight and last season. He's a solid passer and can shoot from deep. He'd be a great fit for us as he'd immediately upgrade our starting SF spot and be able to play some small ball PF which would let us go with Parsons/KCP/Meeks on the court at the same time.

The problem is 1) Houston would have no incentive to S&T him as they can sign Melo outright while Parsons is on his cap hold and then resign Parsons to go over the cap and 2) from all accounts he likes nice weather and wants to be in movies. In order to obtain him it would likely take a near max or max contract. By then he becomes prohibitively expensive.

DCintheD · Post #13 » by **DCintheD** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 12:54 pm

I'm beginning to feel the same way. Sign n trades are so hard to get good value out of tho. It might be better to just sign him now and trade him later.

ImHeisenberg · Post #14 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 12:59 pm

I'm fine with a S&T scenario as long as we get back a player that fits and can really help the team.

Yes, a shot creating, ball handling wing player would great. But, there aren't too many of them out there, and players with that skill set are generally referred to as "franchise players" or "superstars". You could go for a poor man's version like Wilson Chandler of course.

The Penguin · Post #15 » by **The Penguin** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 1:04 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:I'm fine with a S&T scenario as long as we get back a player that fits and can really help the team.

Yes, a shot creating, ball handling wing player would great. But, there aren't too many of them out there, and players with that skill set are generally referred to as "franchise players" or "superstars". You could go for a poor man's version like Wilson Chandler of course.

Exactly right. I think we can all agree our biggest need is a go to perimeter playmaker. However we likely only have two routes to obtain one:

1) Trading Drummond (Which I'm not ready to explore)

2) Trading everyone but Drummond and pulling a Philly (which I don't think SVG/Gores is ready to explore)

Absent that, we need to focus on adding intelligent players who complement each other and give a damn. We can't just bury our heads in the ground and say "oh well, we won't win if we don't have Lebron/Westbrook/Wall/Rose/Melo/Harden".

ImHeisenberg · Post #16 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 1:08 pm

The bottom line is this- there is no quick fix for this team.

Odds are, this team won't be anywhere close to a finished product by the beginning of the season. In fact, I'd bet on it.

Neptune · Post #17 » by **Neptune** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 1:21 pm

We're going to end up matching whatever offer Monroe receives, he's just waiting on that fair offer.

Post #18 » by **dVs33** » Thu Jul 3, 2014 1:53 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:The bottom line is this- there is no quick fix for this team.

Odds are, this team won't be anywhere close to a finished product by the beginning of the season. In fact, I'd bet on it.

This.

I'm of the thinking you match Monroes offer and you wait out Smiths situation. Hope he plays well and trade him for smaller deals. We'll most likely only get a real SF replacement next offseason, but we'll still be better in the mean time with SVG.
If we do manage to have some cap space next season, after some trades, i would imagine a younger FA SF would rather play with Monroe than Smith. It's purely speculation obviously, but a big that stays inside and can pass the ball seems like a better option than a guy that plays a little erratic and steals your shots.
Either way, the cluster f*** of a roster we have isn't going to magically get turned around in a offseason, it's going to take some time.

DetroitDon15 · Post #19 » by **DetroitDon15** » Fri Jul 4, 2014 3:12 am

dVs33 wrote:
ImHeisenberg wrote:The bottom line is this- there is no quick fix for this team.

Odds are, this team won't be anywhere close to a finished product by the beginning of the season. In fact, I'd bet on it.

This.

I'm of the thinking you match Monroes offer and you wait out Smiths situation. Hope he plays well and trade him for smaller deals. We'll most likely only get a real SF replacement next offseason, but we'll still be better in the mean time with SVG.
If we do manage to have some cap space next season, after some trades, i would imagine a younger FA SF would rather play with Monroe than Smith. It's purely speculation obviously, but a big that stays inside and can pass the ball seems like a better option than a guy that plays a little erratic and steals your shots.
Either way, the cluster f*** of a roster we have isn't going to magically get turned around in a offseason, it's going to take some time.

I think you have to sign and trade Monroe. Even if you manage to deal Smith, Monroe isn't a PF. He'll get burned on a nightly basis. He is slow. He isn't the offensive player Kevin Love is. Piston fan needs to stop the silly overhype of Monroe. Monroe is a good not great player. Any serious s and t has to be taken seriously but teams Monroe talks to need to know this situation.

Post #20 » by **dVs33** » Fri Jul 4, 2014 3:23 am

DetroitDon15 wrote:
dVs33 wrote:
ImHeisenberg wrote:The bottom line is this- there is no quick fix for this team.

Odds are, this team won't be anywhere close to a finished product by the beginning of the season. In fact, I'd bet on it.

This.

I'm of the thinking you match Monroes offer and you wait out Smiths situation. Hope he plays well and trade him for smaller deals. We'll most likely only get a real SF replacement next offseason, but we'll still be better in the mean time with SVG.
If we do manage to have some cap space next season, after some trades, i would imagine a younger FA SF would rather play with Monroe than Smith. It's purely speculation obviously, but a big that stays inside and can pass the ball seems like a better option than a guy that plays a little erratic and steals your shots.
Either way, the cluster f*** of a roster we have isn't going to magically get turned around in a offseason, it's going to take some time.

I think you have to sign and trade Monroe. Even if you manage to deal Smith, Monroe isn't a PF. He'll get burned on a nightly basis. He is slow. He isn't the offensive player Kevin Love is. Piston fan needs to stop the silly overhype of Monroe. Monroe is a good not great player. Any serious s and t has to be taken seriously but teams Monroe talks to need to know this situation.

Wait!! Monroe ISN'T the offensive player Love is?? TRADE HIM IMMEDIATELY!!

No one is saying Monroe is a superstar. I just think that when you have a good young big, you should generally keep them. If a great offer comes along for a S&T, then sure you have to consider it, but i haven't heard of one so far this offseason. I'm that big a Parsons fan and if he is on the same level, value wise, as Monroe, wouldn't he command the same money??

anyway, we'll see how it plays out. i hope he stays because i like him as a player and i like the twin tower combo. Not everyone will agree.