Melo #14- Can Melo Come Out and Play?

[coldfish]

I'll repeat this and type slowly so that it will sink in:

Serious sign and trade negotiations will not begin until after Melo has visited all the teams, including NY and made his intentions known.

All Chicago can do right now is the footwork on lining up teams.

[ingvald]

Plausible conspiracy theory:
- Melo is really interested in Chicago
- Phil wants Melo back, and will not give Chicago the negotiating edge by saying he'd agree to a Sign and Trade, Phil has also had discussions with Gasol to bring him in to play next to Melo.
- Bulls know that Melo is interested in Chicago, but finances are tight and NY is being stubborn about a S&T.
- Bulls, who have been interested in Gasol in the past, say 'hey, if the Knicks want to bring in Pau as a 'sweetener' for Camelo to stay in NY, why don't we talk to Pau about teaming up with Melo in Chicago?

So, right now, the Bulls aren't looking for a Plan B, they are looking for a move that would push them over the hump in winning Carmelo. Taj *is* a great teammate and good player, but if you can get a higher-profile player to come in (especially for a good price), why not?

I think this may be the case. Who knows?

Maybe Pax is trying to help Pau get to New York? Too many options making my head spin.

[WindyCityBorn]

Guys look..this is what it all boils down to. The Bulls can acquire both Melo and Gasol but they are going to have to be willing to be very flexible. They are going to have to be willing to give ALL of the following:

Boozer (no brainer)
Mirotic (hold yourself)
Dunleavy (Whatever)
Snell
Randolph
Non Guaranteeds
2015 First rounder
2017 First rounder
Sac Pick

So basically, every real asset that we have outside of Rose, Noah, Gibson, Jimmy, Doug and our 2016 pick.

They said they would try to use all of their assets to make us better. I'd take Rose Noah Gibson jimmy Doug Melo and the 2016 pick.

I don't think that is a championship team.

[TyrusRose2425]

I wonder if the Bulls maybe don't want to kill the Pau Gasol to NYK thing. Tell him we'll give you X amount if we don't get Melo. He agrees to it and it will be more than NYK can offer, therefore killing the Knicks' hope of teaming up both Melo+Gasol and making their pitch even weaker.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Broutard about to talk some more about Melo, and apparently Kobe is hanging out with him today.

[ryannik09]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

[Shill]

Broutard about to talk some more about Melo, and apparently Kobe is hanging out with him today.

Token meeting.

[TheStig]

I'll repeat this and type slowly so that it will sink in:

Serious sign and trade negotiations will not begin until after Melo has visited all the teams, including NY and made his intentions known.

All Chicago can do right now is the footwork on lining up teams.

Exactly, Melo has to pick us first. Then we can get things done.

[thejet1711]

Guys..guys..don't worry.

LBJ is waiting in the wings.

[nykgeneralmanager]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

The Heat had cap room to sign those players outright, so that was their threat. Having said that, the Knicks would definitely engage in S&T talks, but I'm sure Phil will have his demands, rightfully so.

[red222]

New York Knicks Carmelo Anthony a source with knowledge of the situation says he has not made any final decision. (Source: Sean Deveney)

[WindyCityBorn]

Alright, but the Bulls didn't even send Melo a higher salaried S&T offer. They only sent him a low capspace offer. From reports.

Come on, do you really believe that???? Do you think the Bulls looked at Melo and said $16mm is our one and only offer? I am sure we told Melo we need you to agree to this amount, then we will work on a S&T with NY to get you as close to 4yrs/$96mm as we can. The Bulls arent stupid.

He can't agree to an amount he is unwilling to play for. Do you mean fake agree? It doesn't work like that. He has to agree to a real amount, because he damn well could end up playing for the amount if everything else falls through. And things look very difficult on the S&T outlooks ATM for Melo to be risking his future like that.

Either the Bulls believe Phil isn't going to move on the no S&T thing, or they can't find a third team, or they are unwilling to offer Phil what it may take to get the Knicks to negotiate. i.e. offering McDougie and/or Mirotic.

I really hope the Bulls refuse to include Mirotic or McDermott. The Knicks can watch Melo walk to the Lakers or Rockets. I'm not convinced Jackson is a good GM yet.

[ryannik09]

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

The Heat had cap room to sign those players outright, so that was their threat. Having said that, the Knicks would definitely engage in S&T talks, but I'm sure Phil will have his demands, rightfully so.

True, and NY should be leaking to the media that they wont engage in S&T discussions. Its the smart thing to do from a negotiating position.

[Tenchi Ryu]

New York Knicks Carmelo Anthony a source with knowledge of the situation says he has not made any final decision. (Source: Sean Deveney)

Makes sense. People seem to think Melo only cares about the money, but he has a legit opportunity to make the hall of fame, and I'm sure he knows rings help. Being great sometimes is about more than just money. Got a real tough choice to make.

[TheStig]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

Teams simply don't do that these days. Its a player's league and that would really hurt their future recruiting with other stars. Its not like NY is going into full rebuild if they lose Melo. They will try to sign a star next year. And Melo bad mouthing them because they never put any talent around him and made it hard to leave will leave a bad taste with FA's.

Cleveland and Toronto both had leverage against Miami and only got late 1sts. They could actually get the big 3 bigger raises and a 6th year in a sign and trade that those guys wanted.

I'm fairly confident the Bulls would give up next years first with a cav's lotto protected swap, sac pick and a future first and could be convinced to take JR in a sign and trade with Boozer.

[DaeDae]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

He would almost certainly damage his credibility with other free agents if he is too aggressive with a hardline stance here. FA's are not going to want to play for a GM like that. Moreover, he will need to proceed with caution for one other reason: Even if they are able to re-sign melo, he will be in the same position next year as the Lakers, Mavs, etc are this year: Unable to match the guaranteed dollar amount of the "home teams" for Durant, Love et. al., but wanting to sign them because of "culture, opportunity to win, etc". He has plenty to lose besides just Melo if he doesn't handle this right.

[coldfish]

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

The Heat had cap room to sign those players outright, so that was their threat. Having said that, the Knicks would definitely engage in S&T talks, but I'm sure Phil will have his demands, rightfully so.

IMO, a lot of Bulls fans are being ridiculous. The Knicks have absolutely no need for Boozer on the court. I haven't done the match since the Chandler deal but taking on Boozer is going to cost the Knicks $30 to $40M in salary and taxes. That's a huge amount of coin even for NY.

The Bulls are going to have to feel some pain on a S&T. If that means giving a 3rd team some good stuff or giving a lot to NY, I don't know.

There aren't many people around to discuss this with but you seem rational. What is NY's opinion or value of Butler? Would he be considered a good asset or just filler?

[fleet]

I'll repeat this and type slowly so that it will sink in:

Serious sign and trade negotiations will not begin until after Melo has visited all the teams, including NY and made his intentions known.

All Chicago can do right now is the footwork on lining up teams.

No doubt, no doubt. But the reports out there make it sound like the Bulls have only put the cap space in front of Melo, and that it was unsatisfactory. So IDK, whats really going on. But that's how these media reports are being written. Like the Bulls put all their cards on the table already, I assume it would be because they want a real early answer from Melo, and are impatient because they have other targets they may want to move on (to).

[WindyCityBorn]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

Do you really want to offer that kind of contract to a guy that doesn't want to play for you and you have essentially held hostage?

[IndianPlaya17]

So pretty much what the Bulls told Melo was...."give us a number. If you choose us, we'll make the financials work"?