Melo #14- Can Melo Come Out and Play?

[RememberLu]

that story about his kid being picked on at school breaks my heart

How many childhoods have the Knicks destroyed over the years due to their suckiness, damn awful franchise

[ingvald]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

Except for one key point- the Bulls don't have enough cap space to sign him outright. Phil can play the total dbag and refuse any S&T and that pretty much kills Melo to the Bulls. Cavs/Raptors had no leverage because Miami had cleared enough cap space to sign both. The Bulls cannot clear enough cap space- unless you think Melo is signing for $16M- unless they gut the team. And I don't see Melo coming to a Bulls team with a gutted roster.

[IndianPlaya17]

that story about his kid being picked on at school breaks my heart

How many childhoods have the Knicks destroyed over the years due to their suckiness, damn awful franchise

If he comes to Chicago, his kid will be most popular in the school and city. Kiyan will get free ice cream for life!!!

[Tenchi Ryu]

that story about his kid being picked on at school breaks my heart

How many childhoods have the Knicks destroyed over the years due to their suckiness, damn awful franchise

If he comes to Chicago, his kid will be most popular in the school and city. Kiyan will get free ice cream for life!!!

Yea, family of the players get lots of love. Even Reggie's annoying ass gets a lot of love when in the hood.

[coldfish]

I'll repeat this and type slowly so that it will sink in:

Serious sign and trade negotiations will not begin until after Melo has visited all the teams, including NY and made his intentions known.

All Chicago can do right now is the footwork on lining up teams.

No doubt, no doubt. But the reports out there make it sound like the Bulls have only put the cap space in front of Melo, and that it was unsatisfactory. So IDK, whats really going on. But that's how these media reports are being written. Like the Bulls put all their cards on the table already, I assume it would be because they want a real answer from Melo, and are impatient because they have other targets they may want to move on.

I have no knowledge of what happened. If I was Chicago, I wouldn't even talk money with Melo which is what was reported. I would just leave it vague and tell him "if you come here, we think you are extremely valuable and we will do our best to take care of you. We will work out the details with your business guys."

i would then float all the different financial situations past his accountant business guy and his agent. That's their job.

So unless someone has direct access to Gar Forman or Leon Rose's cell phones, they don't know squat.

Just my opinion.

[ingvald]

The Knicks will engage in a S&T for Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds for the Sac Pick and our 2015 1st pick. Thats $5.5mm in salary for 1 guaranteed 1st rd pick and 1 potential 1st rd pick. IF the Knicks wont engage a 3rd team would love to take on those 2 contracts for those two picks.

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

Do you really want to offer that kind of contract to a guy that doesn't want to play for you and you have essentially held hostage?

It doesnt matter what I want. It only matters what Phil is willing to do to build a winner.

[DaeDae]

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

The Heat had cap room to sign those players outright, so that was their threat. Having said that, the Knicks would definitely engage in S&T talks, but I'm sure Phil will have his demands, rightfully so.

IMO, a lot of Bulls fans are being ridiculous. The Knicks have absolutely no need for Boozer on the court. I haven't done the match since the Chandler deal but taking on Boozer is going to cost the Knicks $30 to $40M in salary and taxes. That's a huge amount of coin even for NY.

The Bulls are going to have to feel some pain on a S&T. If that means giving a 3rd team some good stuff or giving a lot to NY, I don't know.

There aren't many people around to discuss this with but you seem rational. What is NY's opinion or value of Butler? Would he be considered a good asset or just filler?

Agreed. This is why I had reservations about TAJ being a part of these meetings.

[DaeDae]

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

Except for one key point- the Bulls don't have enough cap space to sign him outright. Phil can play the total dbag and refuse any S&T and that pretty much kills Melo to the Bulls. Cavs/Raptors had no leverage because Miami had cleared enough cap space to sign both. The Bulls cannot clear enough cap space- unless you think Melo is signing for $16M- unless they gut the team. And I don't see Melo coming to a Bulls team with a gutted roster.

Trade Taj (easily I might add). Capspace cleared. You are wrong.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

IMO, a lot of Bulls fans are being ridiculous. The Knicks have absolutely no need for Boozer on the court. I haven't done the match since the Chandler deal but taking on Boozer is going to cost the Knicks $30 to $40M in salary and taxes. That's a huge amount of coin even for NY.

The Bulls are going to have to feel some pain on a S&T. If that means giving a 3rd team some good stuff or giving a lot to NY, I don't know.

There aren't many people around to discuss this with but you seem rational. What is NY's opinion or value of Butler? Would he be considered a good asset or just filler?

No its not. NY is at 59 million in salary right now. Taking on Boozer doesn't even put them into the tax (yet). Assuming CHicago would be willing to take back a couple less favorable NY players (Pablo Pringles & someone else) and the Knicks will be under the tax.

[BrooklynBulls]

I'm certain it has done before, but could anybody outline the capspace and exception situation if we were to A- Amnesty Boozer, trade Dunleavy for nothing back, versus B- Trade Boozer and Dunleavy for nothing back?

Is it at all possible to Amnesty Boozer, trade Dunleavy, give Melo 18+ in an S&T if we include unguaranteeds, Butler, Snell, Randolph, etc? And if so, what exceptions would then be available to us, if any?

[fleet]

I have no knowledge of what happened. If I was Chicago, I wouldn't even talk money with Melo which is what was reported. I would just leave it vague and tell him "if you come here, we think you are extremely valuable and we will do our best to take care of you. We will work out the details with your business guys."

i would then float all the different financial situations past his accountant business guy and his agent. That's their job.

So unless someone has direct access to Gar Forman or Leon Rose's cell phones, they don't know squat.

Just my opinion.

Sauces 'fish. Sauces.

[bad knees]

People who continue to think that the solution to this problem is a better S&T offer fail to understand how this works. There will be no discussion of an S&T unless and until the Bulls and Melo reach an agreement that Melo will come to the Bulls as an FA, and that fact is communicated to Phil in a way that convinces him that it is true. Phil won't discuss an S&T before then because he wants Melo back and his best shot is if Chicago's best FA price for Melo is too low for Melo to accept, so he needs to force Melo and the Bulls to that point.

I don't know if Melo is willing to take $15.8M so that he can play with Rose, Butler, Taj, Noah and McDermott. If not, and he needs something close to $20M, then I say you dump Taj and go with PF by committee, hoping that you can trade for a better PF as the season goes along. Here's my favorite, which essentially substitutes MDJ, Snell and Smith for Taj, and gives Melo $20M. I really think that Smith could be a good PF for us - he was projected to be the Rockets' starting PF last year before he got hurt.

Anthony- $20,102,648
Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,700,000
Butler - $2,008,748
MDJ - $3,326,235
Smith - $915,243
McDermott - $1,898,300
Roster charge ($507,336) x 6 = $3,044,016
Rip* - $333,334

Total: $63,200,000

Rose, Room MLE
Butler, vet min
Melo, MDJ
Smith, McDermott, Bairstow
Noah, vet min

[Tenchi Ryu]

I swear I get the feeling this is Riley just pulling wool over everyone. GTFO of our faces Riley, always gotta be the spotlight.

[ryannik09]

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

The Heat had cap room to sign those players outright, so that was their threat. Having said that, the Knicks would definitely engage in S&T talks, but I'm sure Phil will have his demands, rightfully so.

IMO, a lot of Bulls fans are being ridiculous. The Knicks have absolutely no need for Boozer on the court. I haven't done the match since the Chandler deal but taking on Boozer is going to cost the Knicks $30 to $40M in salary and taxes. That's a huge amount of coin even for NY.

The Bulls are going to have to feel some pain on a S&T. If that means giving a 3rd team some good stuff or giving a lot to NY, I don't know.

There aren't many people around to discuss this with but you seem rational. What is NY's opinion or value of Butler? Would he be considered a good asset or just filler?

Boozer wont be part of the S&T IMO.

If a S&T goes down it will be with Boozer being amnestied. It will be Dunleavy, Randolph the non-guaranteeds, SAC pick, our 2015 pick and maybe a future pick in 2017 or '18 for Melo.

[BrooklynBulls]

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

If Melo says he is coming to the Bulls; the Knicks will engage in S&T discussions.

The Cavs and Raptors made the same declarations as well.

If a team can get an asset for a player who is leaving they will get an asset. You dont ever let something go without getting something in return.

Except for one key point- the Bulls don't have enough cap space to sign him outright. Phil can play the total dbag and refuse any S&T and that pretty much kills Melo to the Bulls. Cavs/Raptors had no leverage because Miami had cleared enough cap space to sign both. The Bulls cannot clear enough cap space- unless you think Melo is signing for $16M- unless they gut the team. And I don't see Melo coming to a Bulls team with a gutted roster.

If you recall, LeBron/Bosh both threatened they'd leave for less than their max (a necessity since the Heat couldn't pay all 3 guys max), and that's what made Toronto/Cavs relent. So you don't have it quite right.

I think Melo signing for 16m is pretty damn possible. But only if you give him no other option and refuse to S&T him.

[RememberLu]

that story about his kid being picked on at school breaks my heart

How many childhoods have the Knicks destroyed over the years due to their suckiness, damn awful franchise

If he comes to Chicago, his kid will be most popular in the school and city. Kiyan will get free ice cream for life!!!

Yea, family of the players get lots of love. Even Reggie's annoying ass gets a lot of love when in the hood.

even Marc Trestman's daughters get a lot of love

[blumeany]

IMO, a lot of Bulls fans are being ridiculous. The Knicks have absolutely no need for Boozer on the court. I haven't done the match since the Chandler deal but taking on Boozer is going to cost the Knicks $30 to $40M in salary and taxes. That's a huge amount of coin even for NY.

The Bulls are going to have to feel some pain on a S&T. If that means giving a 3rd team some good stuff or giving a lot to NY, I don't know.

There aren't many people around to discuss this with but you seem rational. What is NY's opinion or value of Butler? Would he be considered a good asset or just filler?

No its not. NY is at 59 million in salary right now. Taking on Boozer doesn't even put them into the tax (yet). Assuming CHicago would be willing to take back a couple less favorable NY players (Pablo Pringles & someone else) and the Knicks will be under the tax.

Thanks. You actually forced me to look up and see if there was actually a Pablo Pringles on the Knicks roster.

Spoiler:

There isn't

[Sonny_D1]

There's no way the Bulls are trading Taj. I think it's stupid, but I just can't see a scenario where he's asked to come in and help "pitch" Melo and then turn around and trade him 1 week later. It's not happening, and we're not getting Melo. Yet another instance where this organization falls in love with a player and isn't willing to maximize their trade value.

I get that Taj is a NY guy and all but they didn't need to include him in their pitch. What they should have done is draft Payne (who will be better than Taj anyway), go into the meeting with Rose and Noah and offer Melo numerous scenarios where they keep Taj and offer up a S&T or dump Taj and sign Melo outright and go in with a Payne/Mirotic and possibly Gasol trio at PF.

Maybe it's just me but including Taj leads me to believe he isn't going anywhere (at least in a deal for Melo). As a result, their options are limited.

[WindyCityBorn]

You don't know that. Phil could refuse any S&T for Melo, dare him to walk to Houston, Dallas, or LA, and dangle $129M in front of him and see who budges first.

The idea that New York has no leverage is laughable.

Do you really want to offer that kind of contract to a guy that doesn't want to play for you and you have essentially held hostage?

It doesnt matter what I want. It only matters what Phil is willing to do to build a winner.

You was referring to Jackson. Now answer question instead of being a smart ass. You knew exactly what I meant. You had no problem knowing that Jackson will squeeze Paxson's nuts for every asset so you clearly have an idea about what he is willing to do.

[DaeDae]

There's no way the Bulls are trading Taj. I think it's stupid, but I just can't see a scenario where he's asked to come in and help "pitch" Melo and then turn around and trade him 1 week later. It's not happening, and we're not getting Melo. Yet another instance where this organization falls in love with a player and isn't willing to maximize their trade value.

I get that Taj is a NY guy and all but they didn't need to include him in their pitch. What they should have done is draft Payne (who will be better than Taj anyway), go into the meeting with Rose and Noah and offer Melo numerous scenarios where they keep Taj and offer up a S&T or dump Taj and sign Melo outright and go in with a Payne/Mirotic and possibly Gasol trio at PF.

Maybe it's just me but including Taj leads me to believe he isn't going anywhere (at least in a deal for Melo). As a result, their options are limited.

This is probably what phil thinks too.