Melo #14- Can Melo Come Out and Play?

[BR0D1E86]

if Melo was always this obsessed with money....why dafuq even show up in Chicago.....I mean how long has it been since your ass and the Knicks got eliminated from post season play......You and your business people have had ample time to do the numbers.

Do you really need that much of an ego stroke.....or was this "tour" all just to get Phil to give you the max???

if it's always been about getting your money, god man, spare us all this with this sh**

In 2010 Lebron, Wade and Bosh knew what they were doing years in advance. Lebron still went on his ego stroke tour and had a tv show to announce his epic decision. Melo's never been a free agent before. Even if he knows what he's doing he might want to experience it. Or maybe he's 90% sure he wants to return to NY but he wants to see what's out there first. Who knows?

[bulls_4_life]

@RealSkipBayless: Happy for Melo that he's getting to play the field for his 1st time, getting red carpet in Chi, Hou, LA. But don't rule out staying w/ Phil

@RealSkipBayless: Happy for Melo that he's getting to play the field for his 1st time, getting red carpet in Chi, Hou, LA. But don't rule out staying w/ Phil


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Wow. Carmelo signed with philly lol. I know u meant phil jackson but that's how it looked at first.

[BrooklynBulls]

True, but our biggest concern is scoring. Melo solves a lot of our problems. He really doesn't add anything to Houston. I don't think they're a smokescreen or anything, but I don't think that Melo in Houston wins anything. They're still lousy defensively and maybe slightly better offensively. If he goes there he goes there, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I think Melo understands that he plugs right in with us. A nearly ideal fit of a player for our team. But the point I was making is that Houston is a very attractive destination for Melo, and is very real competition. It's definitely not us or NY and that's it. Even Dallas can be a threat if they have a few tricks up their sleeves.

[Vince Strong]

Does anyone believe that we would be better off building a deep team with the $16mil cap space around Taj, Noah and Rose? Looking at some of these rotations you guys are putting together, just to give Anthony $20mil, is frightening. McRoberts and Bairstow? Bairstow is not an NBA player. Not even 10mpg.

Noah is reigning DPOY. Rose is an MVP. Taj is a nice third/fourth option. Thibs, Butler, Taj and Noah make you automatically have a top 5 defense. Our coach is one of the 5 best in the NBA. Its not like we are NYK's looking to add a superstar. We won 48 games without 75% of our salary cap (that includes Boozer, who was worse than useless).

These threads remind me of those threads on those deals websites. They want, just to want - because they can, so they will. To obsessive levels. These threads mirror those.

[BR0D1E86]

True, but our biggest concern is scoring. Melo solves a lot of our problems. He really doesn't add anything to Houston. I don't think they're a smokescreen or anything, but I don't think that Melo in Houston wins anything. They're still lousy defensively and maybe slightly better offensively. If he goes there he goes there, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I think Melo understands that he plugs right in with us. A nearly ideal fit of a player for our team. But the point I was making is that Houston is a very attractive destination for Melo, and is very real competition. It's definitely not us or NY and that's it. Even Dallas can be a threat if they have a few tricks up their sleeves.

I'm with you, I guess all I was saying is I don't get all the angst over it. Then again I'm really disconnected from sports right now. Between work and something I'm doing for career development I'm averaging 70-80 hours a week this year. Everything else goes to the kids. Only reason I'm on RealGM right now is I had to call in sick today after taking my wife to the ER last night. I barely watched the Bulls this past season.

So I guess in essence, I agree with you.

[davhern]

if Melo was always this obsessed with money....why dafuq even show up in Chicago.....I mean how long has it been since your ass and the Knicks got eliminated from post season play......You and your business people have had ample time to do the numbers.

Do you really need that much of an ego stroke.....or was this "tour" all just to get Phil to give you the max???

if it's always been about getting your money, god man, spare us all this with this sh**

Other than reporter speculation (where everyone is just making the safe assumption that he won't pass up max money), where are you getting this idea that Melo is "this obsessed with money?" He hasn't made any decision yet and the only things we've heard come out of these meetings from his end is that he wants to win.

[Mech Engineer]

I just think you give yourself a better chance and more options not including Taj in the pitch. Now you've pretty much backed yourself in a corner where you're forced to keep Taj because your main selling point was a "complete" roster. Besides, the selling point should always be a big 3 with a stable of solid role players. The Bulls tried to turn this into a Big 3.75 and it's going to backfire in the end.

Consider the competition. Houston primarily. The can offer a roster of Harden, Parsons, Howard, and Melo. And they can offer more money. How do we compete against that? Our angle is that they don't have Thibs, he would be the "big" star here, and we play in the less competitive East. We need more of an edge than that. Having Gibson not only provides a guy he's friendly with, but also provides a guy who saves Melo defensive effort. Parsons is a better player, but Gibson allows Melo to play his natural position, take easier defensive assignments. I think our angle is pretty carefully calculated to be "the team perfectly built for Melo", because I think Houston has the better raw talent to work with. We can't compete with that, no state income tax, and higher starting salary, not without Taj.

I've never been huge on the "easier path in the East" argument. You don't really have to beat the top 7 teams in the playoffs to get to the finals, you only have to beat 3. And whether you're in the East or the West, the conference final matchup will be against a top tier team and if you are a serious contender, you should be able to win the first round match up. In other words, the East-West argument is all about the second round match up in my opinion, and that's about it.

One additional thing to consider in the Bulls favor though that I think a few people touched on is how Melo impacts each team. In Houston, he is an addition to an already established strength... so there may be some diminishing returns. In Chicago, he is an addition to a glaring weakness (along with a hopefully healthy Rose), so chances are he improves the Bulls much more than he would improve the Rockets. And I really do think that Thibs is a big factor.

Ultimately I'm with you though... if he feels he could win with either roster, then money becomes a factor and we may be on the short end of that stick.

You are forgetting the regular season in the East compared to the West. There is a whole lot of easy wins in the East if you are good compared to the West. That means less wear and tear, better seeding compared to the West which also means probably an easier path in the playoffs.

Miami would have been in a whole lot of trouble in the West last year if they were resting Wade like they did in the East. They could win so many back-to-backs with lesser effort. That is a huge difference for veteran teams.

[BrooklynBulls]

True, but our biggest concern is scoring. Melo solves a lot of our problems. He really doesn't add anything to Houston. I don't think they're a smokescreen or anything, but I don't think that Melo in Houston wins anything. They're still lousy defensively and maybe slightly better offensively. If he goes there he goes there, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I think Melo understands that he plugs right in with us. A nearly ideal fit of a player for our team. But the point I was making is that Houston is a very attractive destination for Melo, and is very real competition. It's definitely not us or NY and that's it. Even Dallas can be a threat if they have a few tricks up their sleeves.

I'm with you, I guess all I was saying is I don't get all the angst over it. Then again I'm really disconnected from sports right now. Between work and something I'm doing for career development I'm averaging 70-80 hours a week right now. Everything else goes to the kids. I barely watched the Bulls this past season.

No kids but I'm basically there with you. School is a monster, and the Bulls held no allure for me this past season.

[SlikRik7]

One thing I had not realized is that under the new CBA a sign and trade cannot take place with Anthony's bird rights. So even if we sign and trade for him he can only get 4 years with 4.5% raises vs 5 years with 7.5% raises.

If necessary to get him to come, I think the Bulls should give him a player option in year 2 of the contract. That way if Rose's knees don't hold up Melo can leave. If everything is is going awesome and we've won a ring or two though he can opt out and we can potentially re-sign him with early-bird rights. In theory even if we initially signed with us for 16M he could at least get closer to matching what he would have made in NY over the next 5 years. With early bird rights we can resign him for up to 4 additional years with 7.5% raises at a starting salary of 175% of his previous.

NY Max Offer:
Year 1: 22.5
Year 2: 24.19
Year 3: 26
Year 4: 27.95
Year 5: 30.05

Chicago Lowball Offer with 2-year Opt-out + Max Early Bird Resigning:
Year 1: 16
Year 2: 16.72
Year 3: 29.26
Year 4: 31.45
Year 5: 33.81

Of course it would be illegal for the bulls to commit to paying a 32 year old Mel 29M, but in any discussing something like this might give him some peace of mind that he's only really making a two year commitment on his end. For us it makes sense to give him an early opt-out because we aren't giving up much to get him in this scenario anyway, and if things are going poorly after two years there's little point in keeping an aging Melo around anyway.

[Peelboy]

Bulls supposedly think that if Melo wants to come they can make financials work. They've also been planning this for about 6 mo. So either a)they're stupid, or b)they have plans to get Melo in scenarios other than where he takes $16.6M (which is what my math says they can offer if keep Rose-Noah-Taj-Butler-McDermott-Smith and dump the rest essentially waiving the nonguaranteeds, trading MDJ/Snell but maintaining min sal cap holds of $507K to fill out 12 spots).

For example, dealing Jimmy adds in $1.5 (Melo gets $18.1). Dealing McDermott similarly gets another $1.3 (Melo gets $19.4).

Alternately, and I know it's not preferable, if you deal Taj & waive the nonguaranteeds, you keep everyone else (min cap holds for rest) and can offer Melo $20.3M. You still have Butler, MDJ, Snell, McDermott and the Room exception to find a PF. Best would be to find a deal that allows you to swap MDJ/Snell with say a pick for a guy making $6M and then add in a backup w the Room.

I guarantee you if I can come up with this stuff the Bulls know all about it and Melo does too. It's just a Q of whether Melo wants to come to a ECF favorite/sacrifice a lot of $$$ (come for $16), Come to a top ECF contender (Come for $20), or take the max (stay in NYK).

The real outlier in all this is that if Miami can't add much, does LeBron leave or at best do a 2-yr w opt-out meaning he's FA next summer? In that case does he run his "decision/collusion" scenario back where Melo signs w NYK because he/LeBron/Phil have a deal for LeBron to come to NYK.....

[BrooklynBulls]

That Melo would be okay with any amount the Bulls can offer, whether it's with cap space of a S&T.

If Melo "chooses" us, he would be aware of the possibility of NY refusing an S&T. He'd either be ok with leaving for whatever capspace the Bulls had, or perhaps just remaining with the Knicks for max money. That's the only logical reason he'd choose us and not another team with more capspace.

How about we try to put some S&T pressure on Phil by making him the decider of how much Melo will be paid.

1. Melo agrees to an FA contract at $15.8M, which allows the Bulls to keep Rose, Butler, Taj, Noah and McDermott.
2. Go to Phil, and offer a sweet S&T where Boozer goes to another team for two picks, and the Knicks get one pick and a TPE, AND THE BULLS AGREE TO RENOUNCE THE MLE, so long as the S&T contract pays Melo $22M per year.

So the only benefit to the Bulls of the S&T would be that they would "get" to pay Melo more, which actually hurts the Bulls and helps the Knicks by increasing the Bulls' salaries. And Phil looks bad to the FA community if he does not agree since the only reason not to agree would be out of spite.

Melo would be taking the risk that, if Phil were spiteful, then he would have to sign for $15.8M. But maybe he would be more willing to do it because he would be confident that, in the end, Phil would be more mature about it and agree to the S&T that would result in Melo getting more money. Plus, Melo would have to be moved a little bit by the Bulls offering to give up three picks in order to get him paid.

F*** making Melo feeling "moved." If Melo is willing to get 15.8 mill, and we'd have to give up 4 picks and the MLE in order to pay him 22, lets just go ahead and not do that.

[organix85]

However, if Phil is sitting with a free agent in a year or two, offering big bucks and being very convincing as we know he is, I don't think any free agent is going to care that he played hardball in a S&T for Melo.

Agree with this, however... DaeDae is right in that superstar free agents are going to be very similar to Melo is this year if he turns down better winning chances for money. NYC would have to make many more attractive moves to make a guy give up a 5th year to play with basically just Melo who will be at least 31.

[Bankshot]

Does anyone believe that we would be better off building a deep team with the $16mil cap space around Taj, Noah and Rose? Looking at some of these rotations you guys are putting together, just to give Anthony $20mil, is frightening. McRoberts and Bairstow? Bairstow is not an NBA player. Not even 10mpg.

Noah is reigning DPOY. Rose is an MVP. Taj is a nice third/fourth option. Thibs, Butler, Taj and Noah make you automatically have a top 5 defense. Our coach is one of the 5 best in the NBA. Its not like we are NYK's looking to add a superstar. We won 48 games without 75% of our salary cap (that includes Boozer, who was worse than useless).

These threads remind me of those threads on those deals websites. They want, just to want - because they can, so they will. To obsessive levels. These threads mirror those.

I completely agree, Just sign Mirotic and with adding Doug McBuckets and having Rose back with a decent backup PG and we have every chance of winning in the East without giving up any assets.

[sutrick]

The only question about Melo is whether he just wanted to experience being recruited as a pro or if he is really sincere about finding the best situation. I hope it is the latter but my heart says it is the former. If he is sincere then he will be a Bull. If he is not then perhaps his character is not want we need and we will have to find a SG or SF somewhere else

[Chitownbulls]

Rose
Butler
Melo, McDermott
Noah, mirotic
Kaman

[bad knees]

Bulls supposedly think that if Melo wants to come they can make financials work. They've also been planning this for about 6 mo. So either a)they're stupid, or b)they have plans to get Melo in scenarios other than where he takes $16.6M (which is what my math says they can offer if keep Rose-Noah-Taj-Butler-McDermott-Smith and dump the rest essentially waiving the nonguaranteeds, trading MDJ/Snell but maintaining min sal cap holds of $507K to fill out 12 spots).

For example, dealing Jimmy adds in $1.5 (Melo gets $18.1). Dealing McDermott similarly gets another $1.3 (Melo gets $19.4).

Alternately, and I know it's not preferable, if you deal Taj & waive the nonguaranteeds, you keep everyone else (min cap holds for rest) and can offer Melo $20.3M. You still have Butler, MDJ, Snell, McDermott and the Room exception to find a PF. Best would be to find a deal that allows you to swap MDJ/Snell with say a pick for a guy making $6M and then add in a backup w the Room.

I guarantee you if I can come up with this stuff the Bulls know all about it and Melo does too. It's just a Q of whether Melo wants to come to a ECF favorite/sacrifice a lot of $$$ (come for $16), Come to a top ECF contender (Come for $20), or take the max (stay in NYK).

The real outlier in all this is that if Miami can't add much, does LeBron leave or at best do a 2-yr w opt-out meaning he's FA next summer? In that case does he run his "decision/collusion" scenario back where Melo signs w NYK because he/LeBron/Phil have a deal for LeBron to come to NYK.....

Sounds like you are forgetting that Noah is now at 12.7M because his 500K bonus for All-NBA is now "likely" because he made it this year. Also, you have to have enough roster charges to make 13, according to Mark Deeks.

[Procision]

I keep reminding myself that Melo declined his PO even though they knicks really wanted him to accecpt it. If he loved NY that much why not accecpt and see what they do in F/A next year.

[bad knees]

If Melo "chooses" us, he would be aware of the possibility of NY refusing an S&T. He'd either be ok with leaving for whatever capspace the Bulls had, or perhaps just remaining with the Knicks for max money. That's the only logical reason he'd choose us and not another team with more capspace.

How about we try to put some S&T pressure on Phil by making him the decider of how much Melo will be paid.

1. Melo agrees to an FA contract at $15.8M, which allows the Bulls to keep Rose, Butler, Taj, Noah and McDermott.
2. Go to Phil, and offer a sweet S&T where Boozer goes to another team for two picks, and the Knicks get one pick and a TPE, AND THE BULLS AGREE TO RENOUNCE THE MLE, so long as the S&T contract pays Melo $22M per year.

So the only benefit to the Bulls of the S&T would be that they would "get" to pay Melo more, which actually hurts the Bulls and helps the Knicks by increasing the Bulls' salaries. And Phil looks bad to the FA community if he does not agree since the only reason not to agree would be out of spite.

Melo would be taking the risk that, if Phil were spiteful, then he would have to sign for $15.8M. But maybe he would be more willing to do it because he would be confident that, in the end, Phil would be more mature about it and agree to the S&T that would result in Melo getting more money. Plus, Melo would have to be moved a little bit by the Bulls offering to give up three picks in order to get him paid.

F*** making Melo feeling "moved." If Melo is willing to get 15.8 mill, and we'd have to give up 4 picks and the MLE in order to pay him 22, lets just go ahead and not do that.

OK. Settle down. I just changed it to three picks. Just trying to build a championship team. These picks will not mean much to the Bulls because we will be picking 28-30, and winning a lot of games and hopefully championships with Rose, Butler, Melo, Taj, Noah and McDermott.

[MeloBull]

First Chris Sheridan is an idiot.

Nex skip Bayless is pretty much clueless.

It's obvious it's a two horse race between NY and Chicago.

If the Bulls let Taj Gibson get in the way of getting Melo the whole administration should be fired. Absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard but pretty much exactly what I expect from Gar/Pax.

[Sonny_D1]

Has anyone else mentioned this? Apparently there is a rumor that LeBron and Melo could potentially end up in Phoenix together with near max money for both. A team that would include Dragic, Bledsoe and Plumlee.

I read it (or heard it) yesterday but didn't give it much thought.

Anyone else hear this?