Melo #14- Can Melo Come Out and Play?

[r1terrell23]

Well I don't put too much faith in money because I am certain the Bulls thought all of this through. They knew the only way to get Carmelo a ton of cash was trading Taj. If we know they know. They have covered all of their bases and will get Carmelo the money he wants someway. It's just about Melo choosing us over New York.

[DRoseCantStop]

You get Melo an Pau....people won't even care about Taj.

Didn't Melo say he wanted Gibson to stay?

[Chowda]

If Taj is so great how come we started Boozer over him all last year?

Don't get me wrong Taj *is* pretty great, but Melo + Gasol is much greater still.

It's not something we need to even execute ideally, just to have lined up to do. At that point, checkmate on Phil.

We get Taj and Melo.

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying they won't with the way they included him in their pitch to Melo. You just don't bring in a guy to help pitch Melo and then trade him.

"Hey Melo, come to Chicago it'll be great. So good that I'll leave if I have to."

If Taj wasn't a part of the pitch Id say sure, they'd be willing to move him. No way it's happening now.

exactly. Not happening

Unless the game has changed since the meeting. Maybe at the meeting they got the vibe he isn't coming unless they clear more space, so they quickly turned to Gasol as a contingency, knowing they now might have to dump Taj.

[MoneyMitch]

Melo was in Denver making 15-16M in the tough western conference but his team was having more success than he had in New York making 20M+

Melo should know going to the Bulls gives him the proper mix of Iverson's 2001 Sixers and Dirk's 2011 Mavs

Take the 15/16M, keep Taj and others, re-up, win 2 rings, go to the HOF and be a top 20 player All-Time

[Stratmaster]

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying they won't with the way they included him in their pitch to Melo. You just don't bring in a guy to help pitch Melo and then trade him.

"Hey Melo, come to Chicago it'll be great. So good that I'll leave if I have to."

If Taj wasn't a part of the pitch Id say sure, they'd be willing to move him. No way it's happening now.

Lin wasn't at the meeting. Taj was.

If bringing him to the meeting made him untouchable, then the FO out-thought themselves.

Or are just satisfied that the max Melo can get in a worst case to threaten the Knicks is about 17m.

Which imo, actually lessens the chance of making our best case offseason actually come true.

If bringing him to the meeting meant a change in plans, they would never have brought him. The plan was the plan. He was already untouchable

Agreed. I don;t necessarily think that is appropriate, but I believe he was already untouchable; which makes me worry about either A) Mirotic's availability or B) the Bulls confidence in Mirotic being an impact player.

[RedBulls23]

The Gasol move is perplexing because if you have any faith in Mirotic, he'd be the guy you sign.

But the goal here is first and foremost to get Melo on board. He supposedly wants Gibson here for him to come.

But if that's not possible, good chance he knows and has confidence in Pau Gasol with two rings, well beyond some kid he probably can't even pronounce his name.

If that means we delay Mirotic for another year to get Melo, we probably do it.

Was it just a rumor that Mirotic and real Madrid worked out a buyout or was it confirmed?

[Rerisen]

If bringing him to the meeting meant a change in plans, they would never have brought him. The plan was the plan. He was already untouchable

Better hope Phil doesn't call our bluff then, or all the risk is on Melo to commit first to take enormous financial losses.

Being willing to move Gibson is the only way to make NYs worse case worse than ours/Melo's.

If our worst case is Rose/Butler/Melo/Gasol/Noah and NYs worst case is Melo walking for nothing, we win. And end up with our best case, which is keeping Taj.

[TyrusRose2425]

We know what we're doing. Don't want to take on Boozer's salary? We'll give you 1st rounders, some unguaranteeds, so you don't lose Melo for nothing, but we don't open up your 2015 cap space by taking on JR Smith. Want to do a sign and trade with Boozer but not have him? You won't get back all the assets, but we can rid you of JR Smith. Want to lose JR Smith and get all the assets? Take on Boozer.

[ingvald]

Melo was in Denver making 15-16M in the tough western conference but his team was having more success than he had in New York making 20M+

Melo should know going to the Bulls gives him the proper mix of Iverson's 2001 Sixers and Dirk's 2011 Mavs

Take the 15/16M, keep Taj and others, re-up, win 2 rings, go to the HOF and be a top 20 player All-Time

Glad to see you're still alive, Mitch.

[Hans Embiid]

You get Melo an Pau....people won't even care about Taj.

Didn't Melo say he wanted Gibson to stay?

I think he would be happy with a Gasol/Noah frontcourt.

[Stratmaster]

If bringing him to the meeting made him untouchable, then the FO out-thought themselves.

Or are just satisfied that the max Melo can get in a worst case to threaten the Knicks is about 17m.

Which imo, actually lessens the chance of making our best case offseason actually come true.

If bringing him to the meeting meant a change in plans, they would never have brought him. The plan was the plan. He was already untouchable

Agreed. I don;t necessarily think that is appropriate, but I believe he was already untouchable; which makes me worry about either A) Mirotic's availability or B) the Bulls confidence in Mirotic being an impact player.

EDIT: I should add that I still believe the likely end result is Melo staying in NY.

[fleet]

He's already said he will take less to win. But is looking for the best combination of money and winning.

He does seem to like Melo though, as apparently LA just getting Anthony would make him comeback there. And that's all they'd have beside grandpa Kobe and Randle.

So follows he should be ecstatic to join a Melo Bulls version team.

question is, how are the Bulls selling this Gasol idea to Taj and Melo?

To Taj: "Don't worry, we want you to recruit Teusday. We'll offer him cap space, keep the team together."
To Melo (Taj is out of the room): "Don't worry, that cap space deal we just told you about? We have a plan B. Know any tall Spanish power forwards?"

Honestly though, how can Taj know about this? Answer, he can't know, otherwise why would he be a part of his possible demise as a Bull? Pretty sneaky. And I'm not sure I buy it being considered seriously for that reason. Its pretty sneaky and kind of dirty dealing your guy, who you like.

Teams have to give up guys they like for guys they like even more on a regular basis. I think the Bulls want to keep Taj very badly, but I'm not convinced they'll refuse to deal him if that's the only roadblock to landing Carmelo. But FWIW, I suggested the other day that the FO may have even discussed the various scenarios with Taj ahead of time and got him to agree to recruit even with the hopefully remote, but real, possibility he could be dealt, and was declared mentally incompetent by a bunch of people, so take my ramblings with a grain of salt.

No, I understand. You do what you need to do. But you don't use people like that in the process. If they were dumping Taj for Melo and Gasol, they would not have used Taj during the meeting imo. Its not a remote possibility scenario we are talking about. It is a likely outcome if Pau is coming with Melo with few other options that we know of thats for sure.

[DanTown8587]

The Gasol move is perplexing because if you have any faith in Mirotic, he'd be the guy you sign.

But the goal here is first and foremost to get Melo on board. He supposedly wants Gibson here for him to come.

But if that's not possible, good chance he knows and has confidence in Pau Gasol with two rings, well beyond some kid he probably can't even pronounce his name.

If that means we delay Mirotic for another year to get Melo, we probably do it.

The only way Bulls could get Gasol and Anthony is likely S&T for one or both of them because I simply doubt Gasol signs for the room exception.

Like I said in my posts, it wouldn't shock me if either Butler or Mirotic is offered in a deal to entice NY to take Boozer's salary. I doubt both but one makes sense, particularly Butler.


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[greenl]

I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying they won't with the way they included him in their pitch to Melo. You just don't bring in a guy to help pitch Melo and then trade him.

"Hey Melo, come to Chicago it'll be great. So good that I'll leave if I have to."

If Taj wasn't a part of the pitch Id say sure, they'd be willing to move him. No way it's happening now.

Lin wasn't at the meeting. Taj was.

If bringing him to the meeting made him untouchable, then the FO out-thought themselves.

Or are just satisfied that the max Melo can get in a worst case to threaten the Knicks is about 17m.

Which imo, actually lessens the chance of making our best case offseason actually come true.

This is exactly why. I felt Noah did us a disservice by demanding Taasj not be dealt as a condition of his recruiting Melo. However according to KC Melo also demanded Taj stay as a condition of his coming here.

Noah was already recruiting at the all star break. You have a link to the story that claims Noah wouldnt participate if Taj was dealt?

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[RememberLu]

You get Melo an Pau....people won't even care about Taj.

Didn't Melo say he wanted Gibson to stay?

I think he would be happy with a Gasol/Noah frontcourt.

but Noah/Derrick might not be happy and its kinda important to keep chemistry and not piss off your star players if you want to contend

[Sonny_D1]

He's already said he will take less to win. But is looking for the best combination of money and winning.

He does seem to like Melo though, as apparently LA just getting Anthony would make him comeback there. And that's all they'd have beside grandpa Kobe and Randle.

So follows he should be ecstatic to join a Melo Bulls version team.

question is, how are the Bulls selling this Gasol idea to Taj and Melo?

To Taj: "Don't worry, we want you to recruit Teusday. We'll offer him cap space, keep the team together."
To Melo (Taj is out of the room): "Don't worry, that cap space deal we just told you about? We have a plan B. Know any tall Spanish power forwards?"

Honestly though, how can Taj know about this? Answer, he can't know, otherwise why would he be a part of his possible demise as a Bull? Pretty sneaky. And I'm not sure I buy it being considered seriously for that reason. Its pretty sneaky and kind of dirty dealing your guy, who you like.

Teams have to give up guys they like for guys they like even more on a regular basis. I think the Bulls want to keep Taj very badly, but I'm not convinced they'll refuse to deal him if that's the only roadblock to landing Carmelo. But FWIW, I suggested the other day that the FO may have even discussed the various scenarios with Taj ahead of time and got him to agree to recruit even with the hopefully remote, but real, possibility he could be dealt, and was declared mentally incompetent by a bunch of people, so take my ramblings with a grain of salt.

Let's pretend for a second that Taj was willing to do what you outlined above. How are you now going to convince Melo to come here when you used Taj as a selling point to Melo?

I don't see either of the above scenarios happening.

[MoneyMitch]

Melo was in Denver making 15-16M in the tough western conference but his team was having more success than he had in New York making 20M+

Melo should know going to the Bulls gives him the proper mix of Iverson's 2001 Sixers and Dirk's 2011 Mavs

Take the 15/16M, keep Taj and others, re-up, win 2 rings, go to the HOF and be a top 20 player All-Time

Glad to see you're still alive, Mitch.

Don't speak so soon, I can see something big happening until Melo signs

[CloudyFuture]

Sean Deveney Sporting News On the Score

- Laughs about retweeting kenny anderson and doesnt know how reliable his sources are

- Can say that talking to some of the teams that Carmelo has met already that there is a fear that this is a dog and pony show and that he wanted to be wined and dine to go back to ny That is the concern with these front offices that have met with him

- Thinks Carmelo has already made up his mind You think that if he sits down with say the rockets that they are going to tell him something that he doesnt already know That is not the case Doesnt know if anything new is coming out of these meetings

- Part of these trips is just an ego stroke He was never a free agent The only time he will get this kind of attention When doing this nice to be wanted then can go back to the knicks in a position of power Look knicks knew what they would have to pay anyways That hasnt changed

- Think Pau Gasol meeting for Bulls is a combination of both back up plan and plan A Think front offices think Carmelo is going back to ny If Carmelo is going to take 3 or 4 days you cant afford to sit around and wait Bulls interest in Gasol is real Thinks teams learned alot in 2010 about over paying certain players Like knicks with stoudmire and Bulls with Boozer have to have your back up plans in place

- thinks big 3 trying to for leverage heat front office Once it was clear that the heat were missing on their top targets (gortat lowery) lebron wade and bosh wanted to keep pressure on heat office They will all go back to miami and are still working out their salary No question that they are in agreement to come back So see what they will do

- Have to understand Players union is playing a part in this How does it look if the best player in the game is not making the most money Then do you give owners leverage when other players try to get paid and owners can come back and say well lebron is not getting the max so why should I give you the max lebron is attuned to those issues especially since 2011

[ingvald]

Didn't Melo say he wanted Gibson to stay?

I think he would be happy with a Gasol/Noah frontcourt.

but Noah/Derrick might not be happy and its kinda important to keep chemistry and not piss off your star players if you want to contend

When Derrick plays a full season, I'll care about his opinion again.

[RememberLu]

I think he would be happy with a Gasol/Noah frontcourt.

but Noah/Derrick might not be happy and its kinda important to keep chemistry and not piss off your star players if you want to contend

When Derrick plays a full season, I'll care about his opinion again.

yeah but thats a fan attitude, its not a realistic position to take as a GM

you have to care about pissing off your star players because that can really sabotage the locker room