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Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent.

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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#61 » by B Mac » Fri Jul 4, 2014 7:24 pm

technoviking wrote:Goran Dragic was better last year than Kyrie Irving was, for example. What I said was that Goran was easily a top 20 player last season and I think Bledsoe would've been close had he played all year.


Feel free to argue over the order here, but these are the best players in the NBA by most judges:

LeBron
Durant
Paul
Noah
Harden
Duncan
Parker
Anthony
Curry
Westbrook
Love
Howard
Bosh
Griffin
George
Aldridge
Davis
Nowitzki
Wade
Hibbert
Jefferson
Lillard
Wall
Rose
Bryant
Cousins
Irving
Leonard
Gasol
Randolph
Lowry
Ibaka

I have a very hard time seeing Dragic being better than 20 of those players, and an ever harder time seeing Bledsoe being anywhere even close. I definitely dont want to take anything away from him, because he's tough as nails and just entering his prime, but I would put him clearly somewhere in the bottom third of those players listed above.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#62 » by Niko23 » Fri Jul 4, 2014 7:28 pm

technoviking wrote:Goran Dragic was better last year than Kyrie Irving was, for example. What I said was that Goran was easily a top 20 player last season and I think Bledsoe would've been close had he played all year.


If you mean by averaging less points, less rebounds, less assists, less steals, more turnovers, shot worse FT% and 3PT%, then yes Gorat Drago definitely EASILY was better than Kyrie
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#63 » by technoviking » Fri Jul 4, 2014 7:31 pm

B Mac wrote:
technoviking wrote:Goran Dragic was better last year than Kyrie Irving was, for example. What I said was that Goran was easily a top 20 player last season and I think Bledsoe would've been close had he played all year.


Feel free to argue over the order here, but these are the best players in the NBA by most judges:

LeBron
Durant
Paul
Noah
Harden
Duncan
Parker
Anthony
Curry
Westbrook
Love
Howard
Bosh
Griffin
George
Aldridge
Davis
Nowitzki
Wade
Hibbert
Jefferson
Lillard
Wall
Rose
Bryant
Cousins
Irving
Leonard
Gasol
Randolph
Lowry
Ibaka

I have a very hard time seeing Dragic being better than 20 of those players, and an ever harder time seeing Bledsoe being anywhere even close. I definitely dont want to take anything away from him, because he's tough as nails and just entering his prime, but I would put him clearly somewhere in the bottom third of those players listed above.


Last season, by the numbers, which is what I keep saying and implying. Judging the top 20 players in the league subjectively is a tall order because then you end up factoring in age, etc. But, by the numbers, Dragic was a top 20 player in the league, last season.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#64 » by technoviking » Fri Jul 4, 2014 7:33 pm

Niko23 wrote:
technoviking wrote:Goran Dragic was better last year than Kyrie Irving was, for example. What I said was that Goran was easily a top 20 player last season and I think Bledsoe would've been close had he played all year.


If you mean by averaging less points, less rebounds, less assists, less steals, more turnovers, shot worse FT% and 3PT%, then yes Gorat Drago definitely EASILY was better than Kyrie


And no, I mean by Efficiency rating, estimated wins added, True Shooting percentage, hell let's throw defense in there too, not to mention his team won more games in a way stronger conference.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#65 » by Revived » Fri Jul 4, 2014 8:41 pm

At the end of the day, I think both the Cavs and Suns franchises are gonna be standing there holding the bottle with nothing in it. LeBron will have effectively trolled both franchises and fanbases of both teams will go back to hyping up Irving/Wiggins and Dragic/Bledsoe and live happily ever after.

I still believe this is a stupid ploy to put pressure on Riley to improve the team. LeBron has a $9M mansion with an incredibly nice beach side view in Miami. Plus his buddies are both still there and looks like they ain't leaving.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#66 » by King Stannis » Fri Jul 4, 2014 9:41 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
Fidel Sarcasmo wrote:This guy on Twitter seems to know something no one else knows. Claiming Lebron Back to Cleveland is booked. At the very least, it's entertaining. Hope it's true Cause I hate Dwayne Wade.

https://twitter.com/Josh_Tep


Check this guys last 6 tweets. He exposes Josh_Tep as a fraud.

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL


Haha. Well, where there's smoke...
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#67 » by King Stannis » Fri Jul 4, 2014 9:43 pm

technoviking wrote:
B Mac wrote:
technoviking wrote:Goran Dragic was better last year than Kyrie Irving was, for example. What I said was that Goran was easily a top 20 player last season and I think Bledsoe would've been close had he played all year.


Feel free to argue over the order here, but these are the best players in the NBA by most judges:

LeBron
Durant
Paul
Noah
Harden
Duncan
Parker
Anthony
Curry
Westbrook
Love
Howard
Bosh
Griffin
George
Aldridge
Davis
Nowitzki
Wade
Hibbert
Jefferson
Lillard
Wall
Rose
Bryant
Cousins
Irving
Leonard
Gasol
Randolph
Lowry
Ibaka

I have a very hard time seeing Dragic being better than 20 of those players, and an ever harder time seeing Bledsoe being anywhere even close. I definitely dont want to take anything away from him, because he's tough as nails and just entering his prime, but I would put him clearly somewhere in the bottom third of those players listed above.


Last season, by the numbers, which is what I keep saying and implying. Judging the top 20 players in the league subjectively is a tall order because then you end up factoring in age, etc. But, by the numbers, Dragic was a top 20 player in the league, last season.


You are not off base. Forgive me though, won't read all the way back, what is being argued here?
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#68 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jul 4, 2014 10:19 pm

JMac1 wrote:What do yo guys have other than a bunch of young guys that have done NOTHING. Bennet, Wiggins, locker room issues with Waiters. You won the draft lottery 3 of the pas 5 years. You have establish absolutely no winning culture. Coach? C'mon fellas, I know you want to see your team as the best fit like everyone else but c'mon be honest with yourself.


People said that before LBJ met with three teams, and yet the Cavs were one of those three teams. If LBJ tells the Cavs to go get Love, they will trade Wiggins and LBJ and Love are in Cleveland. It's really that simple. Now, you might not see the appeal of a Irving/Waiters/LBJ/Love/AV line up, but I bet LBJ doesn't have to squint that hard to see it.
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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#69 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jul 4, 2014 10:25 pm

stinger14 wrote:
Niko23 wrote:I was going to create a new thread but I will put this here. Question for all of you:

What roster are we going to pitch LeBron? It sure as hell cannot have all of these rookies on here. I suck at cap numbers and holds. Love is the first chip. But I think we need to go much further in getting better vets and bench help.


Move #1 (sign and trade with Clippers)

Cavs get DeAndre Jordan and Jared Dudley
Clippers get Deng and Varejao

Move #2 ( trade with Twolves)

Cavs get Kevin Love
Wolves get T.Thompson, Waiters, Bennett

Move #3 (the return)

Cavs sign LeBron

Move #4 (trade with Hornets)
Hornets want to move Henderson, and they need a backup PG

Cavs get G. Henderson
Hornets get J. Jack

Move #5 (get the vet backups)

Anthony Tolliver as a stretch 4
Kirk Hinrich or Steve Blake as PG

Kyrie / Hinrich or Blake
Wiggins / Henderson
LeBron / Dudley
Love / Tolliver
Jordan / Zeller

This team demolishes the East and walks into the finals. Defense on the wings, great defender of the paint, great rebounding, big 3 (Bron, Love, Kyrie) scoring punch, great in half-court or in transition, and great passing. Just a complete team.


Move 1 makes move 3 impossible under the cap. Move 2 will require Wiggins going out (and I'd like to keep Waiters and Bennett if that is the case). It will be the first time that the Wolves have leverage because they will know that Love has to be here to get LBJ to commit, or if LBJ has already committed, the Wolves will know the Cavs need to get Love over here this year. The Wolves will insist on Wiggins and we will relent. I'm hoping that move 4 will be unnecessary because we will be able to include Jack in the Love trade as filler.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#70 » by King Stannis » Fri Jul 4, 2014 11:09 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
stinger14 wrote:
Niko23 wrote:I was going to create a new thread but I will put this here. Question for all of you:

What roster are we going to pitch LeBron? It sure as hell cannot have all of these rookies on here. I suck at cap numbers and holds. Love is the first chip. But I think we need to go much further in getting better vets and bench help.


Move #1 (sign and trade with Clippers)

Cavs get DeAndre Jordan and Jared Dudley
Clippers get Deng and Varejao

Move #2 ( trade with Twolves)

Cavs get Kevin Love
Wolves get T.Thompson, Waiters, Bennett

Move #3 (the return)

Cavs sign LeBron

Move #4 (trade with Hornets)
Hornets want to move Henderson, and they need a backup PG

Cavs get G. Henderson
Hornets get J. Jack

Move #5 (get the vet backups)

Anthony Tolliver as a stretch 4
Kirk Hinrich or Steve Blake as PG

Kyrie / Hinrich or Blake
Wiggins / Henderson
LeBron / Dudley
Love / Tolliver
Jordan / Zeller

This team demolishes the East and walks into the finals. Defense on the wings, great defender of the paint, great rebounding, big 3 (Bron, Love, Kyrie) scoring punch, great in half-court or in transition, and great passing. Just a complete team.


Move 1 makes move 3 impossible under the cap. Move 2 will require Wiggins going out (and I'd like to keep Waiters and Bennett if that is the case). It will be the first time that the Wolves have leverage because they will know that Love has to be here to get LBJ to commit, or if LBJ has already committed, the Wolves will know the Cavs need to get Love over here this year. The Wolves will insist on Wiggins and we will relent. I'm hoping that move 4 will be unnecessary because we will be able to include Jack in the Love trade as filler.


1. Clips will not trade DJ for Deng. Floated the idea on their forum last night. Spent the next four hours in a dogfight. If I were them, I wouldn't do it either. Deng is playing like he is 35, rather than 29.

2. Wolves will insist on Wiggins, maybe we don't relent. Their bargaining posture is dubious. I would do it though.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#71 » by mup » Sat Jul 5, 2014 12:56 am

JMac1 wrote:
KI-DW-TT-AB wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
And a bench that deeper than Madonna's love box!! :-?
Some of you guys need to wake up and show that you have basketball acumen outside of what you read. Obviously you don't watch much basketball.

how would you know how deep madonna's love box is?

you have an OK bench but Cavs bench would be much better in that case.



I knew you were a little obtuse by your Madonna comment. You can infer how deep her love box is without experiencing it. But maybe you were saying what you said to try and devalue my comment on your bench..... "He is wrong about Madonna, so obviously anything he posts about their bench is wrong."

Your bench is better than ours :crazy: Waste of time if I have to convince you otherwise. Like someone said, your team is a bunch of rookies. And a Kevin Love trade is on speed dial......right.

That's the problem with every team but us. We don't have to do jack that has to deal with another team. Saying and doing are two different things.

Lebron isn't dealing with what-ifs in his decision (if it hasn't been made up yet, I believe its with Miami), he is looking at what is.

What is, is like your poster said earlier; you have a bunch of rookies running around. If Lebron is looking at growing with a young roster, then Cleveland is where he should go. Maybe Wiggins turns into a stud. Maybe Bennett turns into a stud. Maybe Waiters and Kyrie get along. Maybe Minny trades with you.

Maybe Lebron forgave all of the fans that gave him the finger when he left and burned his jerseys. Maybe he forgave the owner that wished bad on him like he was the leader of a demonic cult....just maybe :-?

Things that make you go hummmm..... :wink:
what team is "us"? Phoenix?

The Suns haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and none of the guys on the team were even there then. So, what winning culture? Your entire roster has played a combined zero playoff games (unless you have some crap vet buried on the bench). At least the Cavs have Varejao, an important player on a finals team.

Also, what rookies do the cavs have? They have 1, Andrew wiggins, so what are you talking about. The Suns by contrast, just used 3 first round draft picks on rookies.

Everything you wrote is complete crap. Not saying Phoenix doesn't have a solidly mediocre future of first round exits ahead of them but if you really think James is sitting somewhere saying "oh damn, suns have Miles Plumlee and the Morris twins," you're nuts.


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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#72 » by technoviking » Sat Jul 5, 2014 7:10 am

mup wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
KI-DW-TT-AB wrote:how would you know how deep madonna's love box is?

you have an OK bench but Cavs bench would be much better in that case.



I knew you were a little obtuse by your Madonna comment. You can infer how deep her love box is without experiencing it. But maybe you were saying what you said to try and devalue my comment on your bench..... "He is wrong about Madonna, so obviously anything he posts about their bench is wrong."

Your bench is better than ours :crazy: Waste of time if I have to convince you otherwise. Like someone said, your team is a bunch of rookies. And a Kevin Love trade is on speed dial......right.

That's the problem with every team but us. We don't have to do jack that has to deal with another team. Saying and doing are two different things.

Lebron isn't dealing with what-ifs in his decision (if it hasn't been made up yet, I believe its with Miami), he is looking at what is.

What is, is like your poster said earlier; you have a bunch of rookies running around. If Lebron is looking at growing with a young roster, then Cleveland is where he should go. Maybe Wiggins turns into a stud. Maybe Bennett turns into a stud. Maybe Waiters and Kyrie get along. Maybe Minny trades with you.

Maybe Lebron forgave all of the fans that gave him the finger when he left and burned his jerseys. Maybe he forgave the owner that wished bad on him like he was the leader of a demonic cult....just maybe :-?

Things that make you go hummmm..... :wink:
what team is "us"? Phoenix?

The Suns haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and none of the guys on the team were even there then. So, what winning culture? Your entire roster has played a combined zero playoff games (unless you have some crap vet buried on the bench). At least the Cavs have Varejao, an important player on a finals team.

Also, what rookies do the cavs have? They have 1, Andrew wiggins, so what are you talking about. The Suns by contrast, just used 3 first round draft picks on rookies.

Everything you wrote is complete crap. Not saying Phoenix doesn't have a solidly mediocre future of first round exits ahead of them but if you really think James is sitting somewhere saying "oh damn, suns have Miles Plumlee and the Morris twins," you're nuts.


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You must not watch basketball, Dragic and Bledsoe both have stand out playoff performances, go look on youtube.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#73 » by InternetNiceGuy » Sat Jul 5, 2014 8:17 am

LeBron to the Cavs. Book it!


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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#74 » by KI-DW-TT-AB » Sat Jul 5, 2014 8:36 am

InternetNiceGuy wrote:LeBron to the Cavs. Book it!


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This guy is going to be Cavs' Carl2680
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#75 » by SarcasticSun » Sat Jul 5, 2014 8:53 am

B Mac wrote:
technoviking wrote:Goran Dragic was better last year than Kyrie Irving was, for example. What I said was that Goran was easily a top 20 player last season and I think Bledsoe would've been close had he played all year.


Feel free to argue over the order here, but these are the best players in the NBA by most judges:

LeBron
Durant
Paul
Noah
Harden
Duncan
Parker
Anthony
Curry
Westbrook
Love
Howard
Bosh
Griffin
George
Aldridge
Davis
Nowitzki
Wade
Hibbert
Jefferson
Lillard
Wall
Rose
Bryant
Cousins
Irving
Leonard
Gasol
Randolph
Lowry
Ibaka

I have a very hard time seeing Dragic being better than 20 of those players, and an ever harder time seeing Bledsoe being anywhere even close. I definitely dont want to take anything away from him, because he's tough as nails and just entering his prime, but I would put him clearly somewhere in the bottom third of those players listed above.

Clearly this list is correct. Dragic is not better than Rose, the man who hasn't played at all, or even wade, who only played half of last season. Clearly, we have to live in the past and remember that there once was a time Kobe, Wade, and Rose were top 20. Forget about the terrible/nonexistent season those three just put together and live in the past. And why wouldn't we live in the past? If we didn't then trying to keep Dragic off the top 20 list would fail, duh. It is necessary for us to deny what is obvious, because we cannot accept being wrong and losing to those smug message board men. Why else do you think we had to reach and put Lowry in the top 20? Times are tough. Lastly, remember to deny that Dragic and Lillard are a wash and have identical statistics...wouldn't want to be wrong now would we. Phoenix is a terrible franchise and will never get LeBron, he obviously wants to play for the mighty Cavaliers team who will probably surround him with amazing talent again, talent like Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Michael Jordan, and Luke Walton. Can't wait to prove these guys wrong.
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#76 » by InternetNiceGuy » Sat Jul 5, 2014 9:02 am

KI-DW-TT-AB wrote:
InternetNiceGuy wrote:LeBron to the Cavs. Book it!


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This guy is going to be Cavs' Carl2680


Is that supposed to be an insult?


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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#77 » by KI-DW-TT-AB » Sat Jul 5, 2014 9:13 am

InternetNiceGuy wrote:
KI-DW-TT-AB wrote:
InternetNiceGuy wrote:LeBron to the Cavs. Book it!


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This guy is going to be Cavs' Carl2680


Is that supposed to be an insult?


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no
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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#78 » by InternetNiceGuy » Sat Jul 5, 2014 10:32 am

KI-DW-TT-AB wrote:
InternetNiceGuy wrote:
KI-DW-TT-AB wrote:This guy is going to be Cavs' Carl2680


Is that supposed to be an insult?


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no


Nice that's nice. :thumb:


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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#79 » by RaisingArizona » Sat Jul 5, 2014 10:41 am

SarcasticSun wrote:Clearly this list is correct. Dragic is not better than Rose, the man who hasn't played at all, or even wade, who only played half of last season. Clearly, we have to live in the past and remember that there once was a time Kobe, Wade, and Rose were top 20. Forget about the terrible/nonexistent season those three just put together and live in the past. And why wouldn't we live in the past? If we didn't then trying to keep Dragic off the top 20 list would fail, duh. It is necessary for us to deny what is obvious, because we cannot accept being wrong and losing to those smug message board men. Why else do you think we had to reach and put Lowry in the top 20? Times are tough. Lastly, remember to deny that Dragic and Lillard are a wash and have identical statistics...wouldn't want to be wrong now would we. Phoenix is a terrible franchise and will never get LeBron, he obviously wants to play for the mighty Cavaliers team who will probably surround him with amazing talent again, talent like Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Michael Jordan, and Luke Walton. Can't wait to prove these guys wrong.


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Re: Cavs, Others, Meet With LeBron's Agent. 

Post#80 » by B Mac » Sat Jul 5, 2014 12:59 pm

SarcasticSun wrote:Clearly this list is correct. Dragic is not better than Rose, the man who hasn't played at all, or even wade, who only played half of last season. Clearly, we have to live in the past and remember that there once was a time Kobe, Wade, and Rose were top 20. Forget about the terrible/nonexistent season those three just put together and live in the past. And why wouldn't we live in the past? If we didn't then trying to keep Dragic off the top 20 list would fail, duh. It is necessary for us to deny what is obvious, because we cannot accept being wrong and losing to those smug message board men. Why else do you think we had to reach and put Lowry in the top 20? Times are tough. Lastly, remember to deny that Dragic and Lillard are a wash and have identical statistics...wouldn't want to be wrong now would we. Phoenix is a terrible franchise and will never get LeBron, he obviously wants to play for the mighty Cavaliers team who will probably surround him with amazing talent again, talent like Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Michael Jordan, and Luke Walton. Can't wait to prove these guys wrong.



I listed 32 players, and said there werent 20 people on that list who he was better than. Even if you take off Kobe, Wade, Rose, Lowry, and Lillard that still leaves 28 other guys on that list. I think there is a legitimate case that Dragic is better than 3 to 4 more of those players, which is why I originally said I have him 25th or 26th in the league.


Otherwise, I can deal without all of the other garbage in the post. Usually I find that if you dont have a solid argument, leaning heavily on sarcasm is a major crutch. Is it too much to ask to have a genuine debate without insults?


Personally I have a tough time not ranking Wade and Lillard slightly above him. People will remember Wade in the Finals and say that is the player he is, but you cant forget what he did in the playoffs to help get the Heat to the Finals, plus the many nights he carried the team during the regular season. Also, Lillard had a very similar statline to Dragic, and is many years younger. They might be about a wash currently, but I expect that to change very shortly. I'll give you Kobe. While still an amazing talent, he's older and has had some major injuries. Still a top 30 player to me if he comes back even close to healthy. Lowry might surprise a lot of people with how good of a season he had up North. I do have Dragic in front of him, but its a lot closer than might be expected.

Once again, I welcome debates, but insulting our team is going to have to stop on our board.

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