In Today's NBA, You Need to be able to Make Trades

[Zartan]

I've long had the theory that The Chairman would rather eat rotton eggs than go after Lebron after the charade in 2010 where Lebron conned the Bulls. Some people just don't forget getting swindled. I admire him for keeping his pride intact. Don't give it up. Not for anybody.

How did the Bulls get swindled? Because he didn't choose to play with them?

Someone said it earlier in the Melo thread.....if you're a free agent and you're leaning toward signing with a certain team wouldn't it behoove you to explore all of your options before signing on the dotted line? Even if you might already know what you think you'd like?

This is the process of today's NBA free agency. Players want to be stroked and coddled. If you feel "swindled" by the process than you're being entirely to emotional about it.

yeah I know you Zartan. 2010 was on the up and up. Gahead.

What's wrong with what they did? And if the Bulls were the colluded destination would you feel the way you do? Sounds like sour grapes. Yeah.... Gahead.

[HomoSapien]

What are all these great trades other teams are making that ranks the Bulls last?

Well we haven't made any trades for established talent, so by default we are last. It's not very hard to argue.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about trades for super stars. Just guys who can immediately help you.

Ok, what are these smaller trades that other teams are making? We hardly ever see true basketball trades. It's almost always financial or trading the future for the present.

Well we've arguably made 0-1 "basketball trades" in John Paxson's entire time in Chiacgo, so it's pretty easy to argue.

But if you insist on recent examples:

Cavs trading for Deng
Kings trading for Gay
Wizards trading for Gortat
Nets trading for Marcus Thornton
Rockets trading for Harden
Raptors trading for Lou Williams
Nuggets trading for Igoudala
Cavs trading for Hawes
Pacers trade for Evan Turner
Bobcats trading for Gary Neal
Warriors trading for Bogut
Lakers trading for Ramon Sessions
Lakers trading for Jordan Hill
Wizards trading for Nene

[kyrv]

Maybe they reached out through back channels and heard Lebron wasn't interested so why have a meeting?

People always assume the worst about the Bulls and it's getting really old.

Why is this your assumption? KC straight up said there was no meeting because the Bulls couldn't offer enough money.

Can we decide if flexibility is good or bad? Sure gets demonized here a ton. Now not having it is bad.

What's wrong with the Suns btw?

[dice]

this tired meme again?

trading for "established talent" is not necessarily a good thing. ask the knicks (melo). ask the nets (joe johnson). ask the nets again (gerald wallace). most notably, ask the charlotte hornets (kobe for vlade divac). hell, ask the minnesota vikings (herschel walker). and then thank your lucky stars you don't have to ask garpax a couple of years down the road (melo)

it's usually a BAD thing to trade for established talent unless the talent acquired puts a team over the top immediately. 'cause it usually means dispensing young, cheap contracts in the process (both established talent and draft picks)

and by the way, nothing has changed in this regard in "today's NBA" vs. "yesterday's NBA"

[Evil_Headband]

Well we haven't made any trades for established talent, so by default we are last. It's not very hard to argue.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about trades for super stars. Just guys who can immediately help you.

Ok, what are these smaller trades that other teams are making? We hardly ever see true basketball trades. It's almost always financial or trading the future for the present.

Well we've arguably made 0-1 "basketball trades" in John Paxson's entire time in Chiacgo, so it's pretty easy to argue.

But if you insist on recent examples:

Cavs trading for Deng
Kings trading for Gay
Wizards trading for Gortat
Nets trading for Marcus Thornton
Rockets trading for Harden
Raptors trading for Lou Williams
Nuggets trading for Igoudala
Cavs trading for Hawes
Pacers trade for Evan Turner
Bobcats trading for Gary Neal
Warriors trading for Bogut
Lakers trading for Ramon Sessions
Lakers trading for Jordan Hill
Wizards trading for Nene

I'm confused. I thought you weren't counting financial trades.

Regarding the trades as above, I think part of the reason the Bulls haven't made such trades has to do with developing their own talent. They value their draft picks and have largely spent their cap space on players they originally drafted.

[Leto]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/484869828071530497[/tweet]

It's becoming increasingly clear that a lack of money is going to be key in acquiring Anthony. Even if we had the ability to offer the max, we still would be offering quite a bit less than what NY could offer, so we'd be at an immediate disadvantage.

Now we're hearing that we can't even secure a meeting with James' agent for that very same reason. I know we all hate James, but it's a problem when the NBA's best player isn't interested in meeting with you but is interested in the Suns.

I've been extremely vocal over the years about the Bulls inability to make trades. They are downright terrible at them. I know some of you are dying to point out the McDermott trade, or the Eddy Curry trade that happened nearly a decade ago now, but let's be more nuanced than that. The Bulls aren't able to trade for established talents.

They're great at making trades for picks or ones that help them out financially, but they're probably worst in the league at actually acquiring established talent.

Hopefully this offseason has been eye opening. In today's NBA, it's becoming really advantageous to be skilled at making trades.

You're conflating Melo and Lebron. They are two different players in two different situations. Melo knows we aren't offering the max and yet we had a meeting with him and are a favorite to sign him. Lebron has already said he wants the max.

[Evil_Headband]

Overall, most of the trades the Bulls made in recent years have been good. McDermott trade is too early to tell but I think all of us think Toko for Teague was a good decision. So was getting picks for Deng. Thabo for the pick to land Gibson also worked out. As did getting a pick for Tyrus. Miller trade also made the Bulls better for a while.

[PJ Brown]

this tired meme again?

trading for "established talent" is not necessarily a good thing. ask the knicks (melo). ask the nets (joe johnson). ask the nets again (gerald wallace). most notably, ask the charlotte hornets (kobe for vlade divac). hell, ask the minnesota vikings (herschel walker). and then thank your lucky stars you don't have to ask garpax a couple of years down the road (melo)

it's usually a BAD thing to trade for established talent unless the talent acquired puts a team over the top immediately. 'cause it usually means dispensing young, cheap contracts in the process (both established talent and draft picks)

and by the way, nothing has changed in this regard in "today's NBA" vs. "yesterday's NBA"

Exactly. The whole premise only (sort of) works if you ignore the litany of franchises who have nearly traded their way into oblivion and the fact that the Bulls have a fairly good track record when it comes to winning trades (yes, they've lost some, too.). Noah and Gibson are here thanks to trades, and so was Deng. They've traded themselves out of contracts they didn't want or into cap room when they needed it.

[HomoSapien]

Ok, what are these smaller trades that other teams are making? We hardly ever see true basketball trades. It's almost always financial or trading the future for the present.

Well we've arguably made 0-1 "basketball trades" in John Paxson's entire time in Chiacgo, so it's pretty easy to argue.

But if you insist on recent examples:

Cavs trading for Deng
Kings trading for Gay
Wizards trading for Gortat
Nets trading for Marcus Thornton
Rockets trading for Harden
Raptors trading for Lou Williams
Nuggets trading for Igoudala
Cavs trading for Hawes
Pacers trade for Evan Turner
Bobcats trading for Gary Neal
Warriors trading for Bogut
Lakers trading for Ramon Sessions
Lakers trading for Jordan Hill
Wizards trading for Nene

I'm confused. I thought you weren't counting financial trades.

Regarding the trades as above, I think part of the reason the Bulls haven't made such trades has to do with developing their own talent. They value their draft picks and have largely spent their cap space on players they originally drafted.

Those weren't financial trades for the teams acquiring the talent.

[HomoSapien]

Maybe they reached out through back channels and heard Lebron wasn't interested so why have a meeting?

People always assume the worst about the Bulls and it's getting really old.

Why is this your assumption? KC straight up said there was no meeting because the Bulls couldn't offer enough money.

Can we decide if flexibility is good or bad? Sure gets demonized here a ton. Now not having it is bad.

What's wrong with the Suns btw?

This isn't about flexibility. Flexibility is never bad, unless you have no intention of using it.

And the Suns probably have the cheapest ownership in the league.

[mostek]

Completely disagree with the premise of the OP, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how unfounded.

[HomoSapien]

this tired meme again?

Oh geez. Come on now.

trading for "established talent" is not necessarily a good thing. ask the knicks (melo). ask the nets (joe johnson). ask the nets again (gerald wallace). most notably, ask the charlotte hornets (kobe for vlade divac). hell, ask the minnesota vikings (herschel walker). and then thank your lucky stars you don't have to ask garpax a couple of years down the road (melo)

Who the hell is arguing that it's a good thing 100% of the time. No move is guaranteed sure thing. Let's not make up arguments here.

The Bulls can only benefit by being able to acquire talent from all different types of avenues. Right now they're good at drafting, and mediocre to bad at everything else.

it's usually a BAD thing to trade for established talent unless the talent acquired puts a team over the top immediately. 'cause it usually means dispensing young, cheap contracts in the process (both established talent and draft picks)

This is quite the generalization.

and by the way, nothing has changed in this regard in "today's NBA" vs. "yesterday's NBA"

Umm, yes something quite important changed. The disparity in which a team can offer its own free-agents has increased.

[HomoSapien]

Completely disagree with the premise of the OP, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how unfounded.

Thank you, Mostek. Thank you yet again for another one of your condescending posts and for telling all of us that people are entitled to their opinions.

[Hangtime84]

Completely disagree with the premise of the OP, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how unfounded.

Thank you, Mostek. Thank you yet again for another one of your condescending posts and for telling all of us that people are entitled to their opinions.

I don't know you history with him but i do agree with his comments.

I think Bulls run their organization pretty well. I think the Spurs have shown to have a good team one must draft well. They've been a contender for over 10 years.

And if a trade does present itself it needs to be a something for "nothing" type trade.

[mrlancers]

Drafting is more important than trades.

But regarding the LeBron, he's made it clear he wants max money. How much would the Bulls have to give up in order to make that happen? I'm assuming an amnestied Boozer, trading Taj, Dunleavy and probably Butler. I'm not for gutting this roster for the chance that LeBron would sign here.

Bottom line, Derrick Rose's contract and his knees will be the reason the Bulls can't pursue LeBron even if they wanted to.

Kevin Love on the other hand.....

[HomoSapien]

Completely disagree with the premise of the OP, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how unfounded.

Thank you, Mostek. Thank you yet again for another one of your condescending posts and for telling all of us that people are entitled to their opinions.

I don't know you history with him but i do agree with his comments.

I think Bulls run their organization pretty well. I think the Spurs have shown to have a good team one must draft well. They've been a contender for over 10 years.

And if a trade does present itself it needs to be a something for "nothing" type trade.

I'm not sure if you think I'm making an "either-or" argument here or something, but I'm not. Drafting well is vital to any team's success. No one is arguing otherwise.

But you're really limiting yourself if you're unable to make good trades.

[Chicago Brawls]

You need to be able to make trades.

You make bad trades, you are a bad FO.

You make good trades, you are a good FO.

You make no trades, you are an inexistent FO.

That's how players treat our FO. Like they don't exist.

[Zartan]

Drafting is more important than trades.

But regarding the LeBron, he's made it clear he wants max money. How much would the Bulls have to give up in order to make that happen? I'm assuming an amnestied Boozer, trading Taj, Dunleavy and probably Butler. I'm not for gutting this roster for the chance that LeBron would sign here.

Bottom line, Derrick Rose's contract and his knees will be the reason the Bulls can't pursue LeBron even if they wanted to.

Kevin Love on the other hand.....

How would essentially trading Boozer, MDJ, Taj and Butler for LeBron be "gutting" our roster? And there'd be no "chance" at signing LeBron. If he wants to come you make the trades, if he doesn't you don't.

[mrlancers]

How would essentially trading Boozer, MDJ, Taj and Butler for LeBron be "gutting" our roster?

That's most of our production last year outside of Noah. That's pretty much the definition of gutting our roster.

And there'd be no "chance" at signing LeBron. If he wants to come you make the trades, if he doesn't you don't.

Obviously.

[PJ Brown]

You need to be able to make trades.

You make bad trades, you are a bad FO.

You make good trades, you are a good FO.

You make no trades, you are an inexistent FO.

That's how players treat our FO. Like they don't exist.

They make trades all the time.