MeloDrama Part VI

[god shammgod]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

i'm not sure how gasol become so important this off-season for everyone but it's seemingly not just us who think so.

I really think posters here underrate him. Even with the injuries he's an incredibly valuable piece, especially to a system-style team.

i like a center who plays defense and he is a center only now.

[mpharris36]

When has that stopped Riley before?

I understand riley doing it. But LeBron and Wade are good friends with Bosh. He helped them win 2 rings and 4 finals appearences. Riley might not give a sh*t but I don't think wade and LeBron would do bosh dirty like that,

[mpharris36]

i like a center who plays defense and he is a center only now.

it would only be for 1 year until we would be in line to acquire Marc who is a really good defender.

[blumatic]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

Enlarged yes.

Underlined disagree.

[aq_ua]

Completely on point. People here seem to think that "rebuilding" and "creating cap space" and "tanking" are sure-fire ways to succeed in this league. Unfortunately, it seldom works out that way.

I'd rather go to bat in Free Agency 2015 WITH a legitimate #1 option in Carmelo Anthony as part of the pitch.

There is no high probability success rate strategy in the NBA. If there were one, everyone would be doing it and thus automatically make it less successful. There are only a few meaningful free agents in the NBA just as there are only a few impactful rookies in each draft. Nothing has proven otherwise, and it's silly to think that anyone has the right formula. The only question is how do you ensure that you can surround the superstar talent with a meaningful roster of role players when you're able to secure one, hopefully two. The inability to field a substantially talented group of role players was a large part of our downfall during the Ewing era and will likely be the same for the Melo era without meaningful cap space flexibility and rookie contracts. The path from signing Melo to a max and fielding a substantial enough roster of talent around him given our limited assets and Melo's age is murky at best and pretty much entirely depends on having major cap space next summer and an aforementioned rare meaningful free agent that wants to accept that cap space, while retaining adequate talent to surround the stars. There is no room for error under that plan, hence the possibility of being stuck under a massive deadweight unmovable Melo contracts in a few years is extremely unappealing.

All reasonably accurate.

There is no clear, easy path. Each path is fraught with obstacles and difficulties.

This is when I remind myself, when I'm trying to evaluate what is the more realistic, likely option, that the KNicks are ALSO a business and not just a 'championship or bust' contraption.

The KNicks are likely going to choose the path that will result is higher attendance, higher ratings, and more postseason how dates, since every alternative is flawed.

And I think Phil Jackson is here, not to help Dolan's bottom line, but to establish a winning team no matter what the cost. If that cost involves trading away Melo or letting him walk because he does not see a viable path to building a winning team around Melo with the assets we have, then I don't doubt that's what will happen. In terms of personal preference, I would love to see Melo come back at a sub-20mm per year contract and without the no-trade mumbo jumbo. Give Phil a chance to recruit talent with the cap space and give him some room for error if the timing doesn't work out. If Melo wants all his money and lock the Knicks into potential cap hell for years, by all means the door is right there and I will happily watch the Early/Hardaway show as our 2015 pick becomes a very valuable asset.

[god shammgod]

i like a center who plays defense and he is a center only now.

it would only be for 1 year until we would be in line to acquire Marc who is a really good defender.

like rasho said, it's a gamble. but they do have info that we don't so who knows.

[GONYK]

When has that stopped Riley before?

I understand riley doing it. But LeBron and Wade are good friends with Bosh. He helped them win 2 rings and 4 finals appearences. Riley might not give a sh*t but I don't think wade and LeBron would do bosh dirty like that,

Then Lebron shouldn't have bullied his friends into opting out then shut off communication

[kosmovitelli]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

Don't worry. We don't even have the assets to unload Amare's contract ($23,410,988). Some teams traded a first round pick only to get of a $5 million player. Even if they have the cap space, no team will swallow $23 million only for Shumpert and a couple of second rounders. Makes no sense at all.

[jp007]

anyone just hear collins on the herd lol .. rewind a few mn back 11:45:50

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play

how about telling us?

he said that he got a copy of the dvd presentation that the lakers made for melo and did a spoof version of the spiderman theme song "Meloman"

[mpharris36]

i like a center who plays defense and he is a center only now.

it would only be for 1 year until we would be in line to acquire Marc who is a really good defender.

like rasho said, it's a gamble. but they do have info that we don't so who knows.

it would be a gamble I fully understand that. But this would be an extremely well calculated gamble.

They would have space next year to sign him - check
They would have a big market - check
They would have his point guard - check
They would have his brother - check

would marc really pass that up?

[nyjetsknicks420]

Im gunna go out on a limb and say we don't hear anything from Melo today

[god shammgod]

it would only be for 1 year until we would be in line to acquire Marc who is a really good defender.

like rasho said, it's a gamble. but they do have info that we don't so who knows.

it would be a gamble I fully understand that. But this would be an extremely well calculated gamble.

They would have space next year to sign him - check
They would have a big market - check
They would have his point guard - check
They would have his brother - check

would marc really pass that up?

i don't know. maybe he's happy in memphis. impossible to say.

[Moose]

If we are going to trade assets with Amare, there better be someone better than a 34-year-old Gasol coming here...

How much cap space would we even have after that trade?

[aq_ua]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

Agreed. The only reason you do this is because you're guaranteed LeBron, except it makes absolutely no sense for LeBron to want to team up with Melo in NY when they can readily just sign tomorrow in Miami.

[KnicksGadfly]

You guys have to think of it like this:

If we offload Amare + assets to the Sixers, we might be able to sign a free agent.

So in reality, it would kind of be a trade:

Knicks trade:
Amare
Shump
Asset???

Knicks receive:
Potential free agent
Sixers return (Thad Young, if they REALLY want to set a record for losing)

Now, if the Knicks feel like the potential free agent isn't worth it, then don't do the deal. Like people say, just let Amare expire. And if the Knicks like it, then go for it. We have a lot of swingmen on this team. Also, all of this is contingent on Philly or Orlando saying yes, of course.

[liknicks7]

anyone just hear collins on the herd lol .. rewind a few mn back 11:45:50

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play

how about telling us?

he said that he got a copy of the dvd presentation that the lakers made for melo and did a spoof version of the spiderman theme song "Meloman"

That was so corny. I hate you for bringing that to my attention.

[mpharris36]

it would be a gamble I fully understand that. But this would be an extremely well calculated gamble.

They would have space next year to sign him - check
They would have a big market - check
They would have his point guard - check
They would have his brother - check

would marc really pass that up?

i don't know. maybe he's happy in memphis. impossible to say.

I'm sure they would check with Pau if this was a situation that Marc would consider before actually committing to it. There isn't tampering between brothers is there?

[KnicksManiac]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

Don't worry. We don't even have the assets to unload Amare's contract ($23,410,988). Some teams traded a first round pick only to get of a $5 million player. Even if they have the cap space, no team will swallow $23 million only for Shumpert and a couple of second rounders. Makes no sense at all.

As you know, each team must meet 90% of the cap. The Sixers, Jazz, and Magic are nowhere near that right now. Rather than overpaying a free agent with long term deal, it's possible they'd take on a Amare's 1 year contract while acquiring some assets. Very, very unlikely. But possible.

[suicidedeuce]

There is no high probability success rate strategy in the NBA. If there were one, everyone would be doing it and thus automatically make it less successful. There are only a few meaningful free agents in the NBA just as there are only a few impactful rookies in each draft. Nothing has proven otherwise, and it's silly to think that anyone has the right formula. The only question is how do you ensure that you can surround the superstar talent with a meaningful roster of role players when you're able to secure one, hopefully two. The inability to field a substantially talented group of role players was a large part of our downfall during the Ewing era and will likely be the same for the Melo era without meaningful cap space flexibility and rookie contracts. The path from signing Melo to a max and fielding a substantial enough roster of talent around him given our limited assets and Melo's age is murky at best and pretty much entirely depends on having major cap space next summer and an aforementioned rare meaningful free agent that wants to accept that cap space, while retaining adequate talent to surround the stars. There is no room for error under that plan, hence the possibility of being stuck under a massive deadweight unmovable Melo contracts in a few years is extremely unappealing.

All reasonably accurate.

There is no clear, easy path. Each path is fraught with obstacles and difficulties.

This is when I remind myself, when I'm trying to evaluate what is the more realistic, likely option, that the KNicks are ALSO a business and not just a 'championship or bust' contraption.

The KNicks are likely going to choose the path that will result is higher attendance, higher ratings, and more postseason how dates, since every alternative is flawed.

And I think Phil Jackson is here, not to help Dolan's bottom line, but to establish a winning team no matter what the cost. If that cost involves trading away Melo or letting him walk because he does not see a viable path to building a winning team around Melo with the assets we have, then I don't doubt that's what will happen. In terms of personal preference, I would love to see Melo come back at a sub-20mm per year contract and without the no-trade mumbo jumbo. Give Phil a chance to recruit talent with the cap space and give him some room for error if the timing doesn't work out. If Melo wants all his money and lock the Knicks into potential cap hell for years, by all means the door is right there and I will happily watch the Early/Hardaway show as our 2015 pick becomes a very valuable asset.

You might, but you represent the minority hardcore fan.

Again, the premise of this sub-thread of the fact that even of you're picking high in the lottery, finding a franchise piece to build around is unlikely, and once again, the Knicks don't have a 2016 pick.

People talk about $4m dollars give or take to Melo as its the difference between contending or not.

But that the KNicks don't have a 2016 pick seems to be overlooked.

Seriously, not having a 2016 pick isn't as big if not GREATER an impediment to rebuilding through the draft than giving Melo $22m as opposed to $18m is to building though free agency?

I've lost the throughline of the logic if we're not considering the lack of a 2016 pick as a MAJOR factor in one of those two alternatives.

[Red Vines]

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