MeloDrama Part VI

[kane2021]

It's not Riley it's the players. Those 3 planned to play together in 2007 when they took short deals. Miami had the most cap space to make it happen. It's no different this time. Riley didn't talk them into opting out. Those guys did that on their own because they lost and want more help.

I think the whole bosh to rockets thing is just to open an opportunity to talk to melo without showing their hand.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using RealGM Forums mobile app

[suicidedeuce]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

Don't worry. We don't even have the assets to unload Amare's contract ($23,410,988). Some teams traded a first round pick only to get of a $5 million player. Even if they have the cap space, no team will swallow $23 million only for Shumpert and a couple of second rounders. Makes no sense at all.

As you know, each team must meet 90% of the cap. The Sixers, Jazz, and Magic are nowhere near that right now. Rather than overpaying a free agent with long term deal, it's possible they'd take on a Amare's 1 year contract while acquiring some assets. Very, very unlikely. But possible.

This isn't accurate. The CBA doesn't require you to obtain players to meet the floor. If the payroll of your roster doesn't mean the floor, you simply distribute the difference between your payroll and the floor among your exisiting players.

Which, an argument could be made, would be a way to engender loyalty among all the young players the Sixers have and will hope to hold onto.

[Rasho Brezec]

It's pointless giving up assets to unload Amare, just let him expire. We're not going anywhere this season.

Don't worry. We don't even have the assets to unload Amare's contract ($23,410,988). Some teams traded a first round pick only to get of a $5 million player. Even if they have the cap space, no team will swallow $23 million only for Shumpert and a couple of second rounders. Makes no sense at all.

As you know, each team must meet 90% of the cap. The Sixers, Jazz, and Magic are nowhere near that right now. Rather than overpaying a free agent with long term deal, it's possible they'd take on a Amare's 1 year contract while acquiring some assets. Very, very unlikely. But possible.

This is something that gets repeated a lot and it's wrong. There is no obligation to meet the minimum salary requirement. The difference between the minimum and their actual salary cap just gets distributed to players on the roster.

[GONYK]

It's not Riley it's the players. Those 3 planned to play together in 2007 when they took short deals. Miami had the most cap space to make it happen. It's no different this time. Riley didn't talk them into opting out. Those guys did that on their own because they lost and want more help.

I think the whole bosh to rockets thing is just to open an opportunity to talk to melo without showing their hand.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using RealGM Forums mobile app

Why do they have to conceal anything? Melo is a FA.

[god shammgod]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 2m

Within Heat, still confidence they'll keep LeBron James. They know difference between his agent's agenda, and James' strong mind of his own.

[King of Canada]

Meloman, Meloman
Does whatever Kobe can't;
Anymore, because he'd old,
We'll lock up 8th in purp and gold
Look out, here comes Meloman....

[Red Vines]

Looking like it's the Mavs now.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SprungOnSports/status/486181029515100161[/tweet]

[KnicksManiac]

SuicideDeuce + Rasho:

That's nuts. Did not realize that. Does that mean that if the Sixers only have $30 million in committed salaries heading into the season, they spread out an additional $26.88 million to their players? So they get paid more than what their contracts say?

(90% of $63.2 million = 56.88)

[suicidedeuce]

SuicideDeuce + Rasho:

That's nuts. Did not realize that. Does that mean that if the Sixers only have $30 million in committed salaries heading into the season, they spread out an additional $26.88 million to their players? So they get paid more than what their contracts say?

(90% of $63.2 million = 56.88)

That's correct.

I'll do you one better.

NO player gets exactly what is contract is. Because the CBA guarantees a certain amount of revenue goes to the players, very often every NBA players actually takes home more than his contract.

[Rasho Brezec]

SuicideDeuce + Rasho:

That's nuts. Did not realize that. Does that mean that if the Sixers only have $30 million in committed salaries heading into the season, they spread out an additional $26.88 million to their players? So they get paid more than what their contracts say?

(90% of $63.2 million = 56.88)

Actually, it's not just their commited salaries. It's their entire payroll. But yes, that's how it works.

The team payroll is not the same thing as the team salary. The team salary refers to the sum of the amounts applied to team salary, including each player's full salary (see question number 14 for a full list). The team payroll refers to the monies actually paid. For example, if a team trades a player midway through the season his salary comes off the team salary, but the money actually paid while he was a member of the team counts toward the team payroll. The team payroll also includes salaries charged to teams for players waived through the Amnesty provision (see question number 68).

If a team doesn't meet its minimum payroll it is surcharged at the end of the season for the shortfall. That money is distributed among the players on that team.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q15

[Jay10]

it would probably be timmy over shump. shump needs to get paid soon.

next summer

[kane2021]

It's not Riley it's the players. Those 3 planned to play together in 2007 when they took short deals. Miami had the most cap space to make it happen. It's no different this time. Riley didn't talk them into opting out. Those guys did that on their own because they lost and want more help.

I think the whole bosh to rockets thing is just to open an opportunity to talk to melo without showing their hand.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using RealGM Forums mobile app

Why do they have to conceal anything? Melo is a FA.

Because it ruins the show. The heat guys have to start looking around to make it look like Miami would be able to offer max money to melo. In the situation one leaves.

They have to make it look like a "sacrifice".

To me it's odd enough that the team that just lost in the finals, .. has the most cap space, .. ain't even talk to the second best player available yet.

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[Johnny Hoops]

SuicideDeuce + Rasho:

That's nuts. Did not realize that. Does that mean that if the Sixers only have $30 million in committed salaries heading into the season, they spread out an additional $26.88 million to their players? So they get paid more than what their contracts say?

(90% of $63.2 million = 56.88)

That's correct.

I'll do you one better.

NO player gets exactly what is contract is. Because the CBA guarantees a certain amount of revenue goes to the players, very often every NBA players actually takes home more than his contract.

When is the last time a team spread out +$20M to it's existing players?

Not a good precedent to get into --- players get false sense of value one you start artificially inflating their true contract value with extra $$$.


I haven't heard of this going on previously -- any examples?

[aq_ua]

All reasonably accurate.

There is no clear, easy path. Each path is fraught with obstacles and difficulties.

This is when I remind myself, when I'm trying to evaluate what is the more realistic, likely option, that the KNicks are ALSO a business and not just a 'championship or bust' contraption.

The KNicks are likely going to choose the path that will result is higher attendance, higher ratings, and more postseason how dates, since every alternative is flawed.

And I think Phil Jackson is here, not to help Dolan's bottom line, but to establish a winning team no matter what the cost. If that cost involves trading away Melo or letting him walk because he does not see a viable path to building a winning team around Melo with the assets we have, then I don't doubt that's what will happen. In terms of personal preference, I would love to see Melo come back at a sub-20mm per year contract and without the no-trade mumbo jumbo. Give Phil a chance to recruit talent with the cap space and give him some room for error if the timing doesn't work out. If Melo wants all his money and lock the Knicks into potential cap hell for years, by all means the door is right there and I will happily watch the Early/Hardaway show as our 2015 pick becomes a very valuable asset.

You might, but you represent the minority hardcore fan.

Again, the premise of this sub-thread of the fact that even of you're picking high in the lottery, finding a franchise piece to build around is unlikely, and once again, the Knicks don't have a 2016 pick.

People talk about $4m dollars give or take to Melo as its the difference between contending or not.

But that the KNicks don't have a 2016 pick seems to be overlooked.

Seriously, not having a 2016 pick isn't as big if not GREATER an impediment to rebuilding through the draft than giving Melo $22m as opposed to $18m is to building though free agency?

I've lost the throughline of the logic if we're not considering the lack of a 2016 pick as a MAJOR factor in one of those two alternatives.

While you have the pulse of the people? I don't think you give Knicks fans enough credit. We've put up through the Layden years and the Thomas years in succession and still filled the seats so your presumption that Knicks fans somehow can't stomach a rebuild is evidently false.

You also over emphasize the lack of a 2016 pick when the moment Melo leaves, we will for sure be converting some of our excess cap space into draft picks much in the way other teams have done to facilitate free agent signings. We will be attempting to find diamonds in the rough through lower tier signings and our own young players and give them playing time, which will in turn increase their value and provide another potential avenue of obtaining draft picks.

Also the notion that the "4mm difference means the difference in contention" is just plain wrong. No one has ever stated that. The 4mm difference is the direct difference between signing an 8mm per year free agent vs. a 12mm per year free agent, which by recent trend is a substantial gap in talent but the only difference maker. Not only that, it sets a precedent of winning over salary as a team culture, because all players must make some level of sacrifice to build a sustainable winning team.

Everything in your post sounds like defeatism and making excuses in preparation for the inevitable that we will likely bring back Melo at the full max,which as others have noted, we will just have to grin and bear.

[suicidedeuce]

SuicideDeuce + Rasho:

That's nuts. Did not realize that. Does that mean that if the Sixers only have $30 million in committed salaries heading into the season, they spread out an additional $26.88 million to their players? So they get paid more than what their contracts say?

(90% of $63.2 million = 56.88)

That's correct.

I'll do you one better.

NO player gets exactly what is contract is. Because the CBA guarantees a certain amount of revenue goes to the players, very often every NBA players actually takes home more than his contract.

When is the last time a team spread out +$20M to it's existing players?

Not a good precedent to get into --- players get false sense of value one you start artificially inflating their true contract value with extra $$$.


I haven't heard of this going on previously -- any examples?

I'm not sure there is a precedent.

But remember, we're entering somewhat uncharted territory in the NBA, the 4th year of the curretn CBA, in which 5 year contracts are the max and 4 years contracts are commonplace AND this is the first year the cap has moved upwards in about 8 years.

You're going to see more and more teams have significant cap room in the next few years, because the cap is goign to go up and contracts are going to expire more often.

[giantsx6]

Looking like it's the Mavs now.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SprungOnSports/status/486181029515100161[/tweet]

The Mavs can have JR also, no charge.

[Johnny Hoops]

That's correct.

I'll do you one better.

NO player gets exactly what is contract is. Because the CBA guarantees a certain amount of revenue goes to the players, very often every NBA players actually takes home more than his contract.

When is the last time a team spread out +$20M to it's existing players?

Not a good precedent to get into --- players get false sense of value one you start artificially inflating their true contract value with extra $$$.


I haven't heard of this going on previously -- any examples?

I'm not sure there is a precedent.

But remember, we're entering somewhat uncharted territory in the NBA, the 4th year of the curretn CBA, in which 5 year contracts are the max and 4 years contracts are commonplace AND this is the first year the cap has moved upwards in about 8 years.

You're going to see more and more teams have significant cap room in the next few years, because the cap is goign to go up and contracts are going to expire more often.

OK - but I think a preference for a team like Philly - would be to take on 1-year of salary (ex Stat) if it can also secure an additional young asset (Shump or THJ) -- rather than just pay out their existing players.

[NYKinMIA]

This shyt over yet?

[CoolKids]

Looking like it's the Mavs now.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SprungOnSports/status/486181029515100161[/tweet]

championship move

[VirginiaKnickFan]

Looking like it's the Mavs now.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SprungOnSports/status/486181029515100161[/tweet]

Major acquisition by the Mavs.