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Raptors Cap Situation - Woj: Cap at 70 million, Tax 84.7 million

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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#201 » by Volcano » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:28 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:Those minutes are their averages for last season... Williams got more than the 20 i listed as well. I just dont see VC fitting in, we need someone defensive minded not a offensive player.


Last season is last season..doesn't really matter. Read the edited portion about the Spurs.

VC's defense isn't great, but it's not bad either. If we get last year's VC, he's good enough to make a positive impact on the team. I wouldn't want VC for anything higher than 3 M though.

I'm not sure how many defensive players there are in FA who can also contribute offensively and will come on cheap, short-term contracts. If they can't contribute on O, might as well play Fields..who can cut off the ball and make plays.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#202 » by Anatomize » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:31 am

Holy... Hayes..
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#203 » by Raptors-Son » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:37 am

SkywalkerAC wrote:
Jermaine OBosh wrote:I don't know how true is this.

KC ‏@kc1nyk 2h
Report: #Raptors Expected to Sign Stash C-PF Lucas Nogueira for next season.


WTF is sign-stashing?


When you sign a player and leave him to develop in another league for another year or two. Similar to what a lot of teams do when they draft a player and leave overseas for couple years before bringing them over (ie. Spurs)


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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#204 » by cammac » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:55 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:
cammac wrote:Assuming we resign Vasquez and I believe it will happen.
We still need a SF and a Big
Think if we can get Vince @ $3.5 he can play with Ross and Bruno @ SF really not many other choices.
I have concerns at PF & Back-up C
1st Hayes should be bolted to the bench never to see the light of day.
2nd Amir, Patterson & Hansbrough all had injury problems last year and Amir shouldn't be playing back-up C except in emergencies.
3rd Bebe is likely unable to play a meaningful role as a back-up for Jonas

Jordan Hill is a UFA 6ft10 and played well for LAL in PER, ORtg & DRtg he is big enough and strong enough to play back-up C. He is definitely more defense than offense but is efficient offensively. Again 4 million per for 2 years.


people need to stop bringing up Vince.

Lowry (32) / Vasquez (16)
Derozan (20) / Williams (20) / Vasquez (8)
Ross (26) / Derozan (12) / SF (10)

not enough minutes. Not gonna happen.


If Williams can play close to what he did in Philly he is gone before or at trade deadline. DeMar really can't play SF well better to get his minutes at SG. Vince is big enough and strong enough to play 15 to 18 minutes backing up Ross. Don't see Vasquez and Williams co-existing well.

You are right Hill is likely worth more but not sure if he gets it would go to $5 per for 2 years.
The other alternatives are Bachynski he is much further down the path than Bebe.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#205 » by Patman » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:43 am

What page is the update on? Too lazy to go through all pages.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#206 » by Rapsobsessed7 » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:49 am

Patman wrote:What page is the update on? Too lazy to go through all pages.


one...at the very top...
Canadafan wrote:Bojan Burks Stewart for Siakam.
2 expiring vets that help now. A young big to add to the Scottie timeline
I'd prefer to keep Stew and give Monte Morris
I'd really prefer to keep Morris and Stew and give the great Killian Hayes and 2nd round picks
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#207 » by RINSE » Sat Jul 5, 2014 2:14 pm

Raptors-Son wrote:One player no one has mentioned to fill out our defensive SF role is James Johnson. He's much improved from the player he was when he played here.

I think he could fit well, plus he's young and has some offence as well. Not sure how much money he's looking for though.


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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#208 » by hankscorpioLA » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:02 pm

Raptors-Son wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:
Jermaine OBosh wrote:I don't know how true is this.

KC ‏@kc1nyk 2h
Report: #Raptors Expected to Sign Stash C-PF Lucas Nogueira for next season.


WTF is sign-stashing?


When you sign a player and leave him to develop in another league for another year or two. Similar to what a lot of teams do when they draft a player and leave overseas for couple years before bringing them over (ie. Spurs)



Yeah....no. That is incorrect.

You EITHER sign or your stash. You don't do both.

When you draft a player (or acquire their rights via trade), then you retain those rights, which (I believe) are valid for three years. In the case of Nogueira, that means until the end of the 2015-16 year (June 30). He is currently under contract with his Brazilian team for one more year.

Thus, we have two options. We can sign him how if we intend to bring him over or we can stash him in Brazil for one more year until his contract is up and then sign him next year.

There is no reason for us to sign him and then stash him.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#209 » by DreamTeam09 » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:15 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
Raptors-Son wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:
WTF is sign-stashing?


When you sign a player and leave him to develop in another league for another year or two. Similar to what a lot of teams do when they draft a player and leave overseas for couple years before bringing them over (ie. Spurs)



Yeah....no. That is incorrect.

You EITHER sign or your stash. You don't do both.

When you draft a player (or acquire their rights via trade), then you retain those rights, which (I believe) are valid for three years. In the case of Nogueira, that means until the end of the 2015-16 year (June 30). He is currently under contract with his Brazilian team for one more year.

Thus, we have two options. We can sign him how if we intend to bring him over or we can stash him in Brazil for one more year until his contract is up and then sign him next year.

There is no reason for us to sign him and then stash him.


What about signing him and stashing him in the D league?!
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#210 » by hankscorpioLA » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:21 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:What about signing him and stashing him in the D league?!


That's not really "stashing".

stash [stash]
verb (used with object)
1.
to put by or away as for safekeeping or future use, usually in a secret place (usually followed by away ): The squirrel stashes away nuts for winter.

Again...the reason you stash a player is so that you don't start the clock on their rookie deal until they are ready to contribute to the team. Since international players (unlike NCAA players) are usually drafted while under contract to another team, you get a benefit since they continue their development without you having to pay them. When they ultimately sign their NBA deal, you get to start the clock on the rookie deal with a much more polished and prepared player.

Signing a player who is already under contract to another team just so that they can play in the D-League is nonsensical. It just brings you one year closer to the end of their rookie deal.

Why would you want to do that?
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#211 » by DreamTeam09 » Sat Jul 5, 2014 3:45 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:What about signing him and stashing him in the D league?!


That's not really "stashing".

stash [stash]
verb (used with object)
1.
to put by or away as for safekeeping or future use, usually in a secret place (usually followed by away ): The squirrel stashes away nuts for winter.

Again...the reason you stash a player is so that you don't start the clock on their rookie deal until they are ready to contribute to the team. Since international players (unlike NCAA players) are usually drafted while under contract to another team, you get a benefit since they continue their development without you having to pay them. When they ultimately sign their NBA deal, you get to start the clock on the rookie deal with a much more polished and prepared player.

Signing a player who is already under contract to another team just so that they can play in the D-League is nonsensical. It just brings you one year closer to the end of their rookie deal.

Why would you want to do that?


The benefit that you get is that the player is now in the organization and can get acclimated to NBA life sooner. You get to oversee his development a lot closer. You sacrifice a year off his rookie deal for a better developed player.

what you said is right though.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#212 » by StopitLeo » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:03 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
Yeah....no. That is incorrect.

You EITHER sign or your stash. You don't do both.

When you draft a player (or acquire their rights via trade), then you retain those rights, which (I believe) are valid for three years. In the case of Nogueira, that means until the end of the 2015-16 year (June 30). He is currently under contract with his Brazilian team for one more year.

Thus, we have two options. We can sign him how if we intend to bring him over or we can stash him in Brazil for one more year until his contract is up and then sign him next year.

There is no reason for us to sign him and then stash him.


I think you are wrong about the draft rights. Teams retain draft rights for one year with slight differences in the details depending on whether the player is playing or signs with a non-NBA team or if he returns or is eligible to return to college.

Nogueira was under contract to a non-NBA team in Spain when he was drafted 2013. This meant that the Hawks retained his draft rights for one year after his contract ended. This continues indefinitely if the player continues to play professionally outside the NBA. From what I have read, his contract finished and he has not re-signed to play in Spain or signed anywhere else. So, we currently have his draft rights for one year.

The "stash" would be if Nogueira decides or agrees with the Raptors to play pro ball outside the NBA. If, for example, he signs a one year contract in the Euroleague, we would still retain his rights after that contract ends. The draft rights clock stops when he is playing pro, although it is unclear if it resets to one year or continues from how much time expired between pro contracts.

There are two alternative things that could happen other than stashing. The first is that we sign him. The second, and much less likely since he plays basketball for a living, is if Nogueira sits out for the year, after which he could re-enter the draft and start this all again.

Source: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q50
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#213 » by hankscorpioLA » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:15 pm

Thanks for the correction. Point is we have his draft rights as long as he plays internationally, so the concept of a "sign and stash" makes no sense.

I believe Nogueira has one more year left on his deal in Brazil - at least that is what I read at the time of the trade.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#214 » by Rapcity_11 » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:18 pm

cammac wrote:DeMar really can't play SF well better to get his minutes at SG.


DD may have been listed at SG, but what exactly was the difference between him playing SG and SF last year? There's really no distinction between SG and SF for the Raptors, and many other teams.

Don't see Vasquez and Williams co-existing well.


Why not? Seems like a nice fit to me.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#215 » by hankscorpioLA » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:25 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
cammac wrote:DeMar really can't play SF well better to get his minutes at SG.


DD may have been listed at SG, but what exactly was the difference between him playing SG and SF last year? There's really no distinction between SG and SF for the Raptors, and many other teams.

Don't see Vasquez and Williams co-existing well.


Why not? Seems like a nice fit to me.


Agree and agree.

Derozan is a little undersized for small forward but can usually hold his own.

However, we could definitely use an upgrade on the bench for certain matchups. Fields is good enough defensively, but unless he can also provide some offense when he's on the floor, he's a problematic player to put in the rotation.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#216 » by StopitLeo » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:30 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:Thanks for the correction. Point is we have his draft rights as long as he plays internationally, so the concept of a "sign and stash" makes no sense.

I believe Nogueira has one more year left on his deal in Brazil - at least that is what I read at the time of the trade.


He was playing in Spain but you are right about his contract though. It seems he was extended for 2 years just before the 2013 draft, through until June 2015 (http://goo.gl/qUR7wk).

So we have his rights until June 2016 it seems. He has a buyout of 600,000€ (http://goo.gl/5mEQxR. I am not sure if Masai will tie up $1.1M - $1.6M in cap space to sign him to be an 11-13 player on the bench.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#217 » by baulderdash77 » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:31 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:DD may have been listed at SG, but what exactly was the difference between him playing SG and SF last year? There's really no distinction between SG and SF for the Raptors, and many other teams.


That's not true. Demar was usually the 2nd ball handler coming out of the horns sets and he played out of the PnR quite a bit as the ball handler. When he was driving to the basket, he had a very high pass rate to the bigs or to Ross in the corner. Demar's ball handling an passing skills was the big improvement in his game last year.

Ross doesn't have those kind of ball skills right now.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#218 » by Rapcity_11 » Sat Jul 5, 2014 4:42 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:DD may have been listed at SG, but what exactly was the difference between him playing SG and SF last year? There's really no distinction between SG and SF for the Raptors, and many other teams.


That's not true. Demar was usually the 2nd ball handler coming out of the horns sets and he played out of the PnR quite a bit as the ball handler. When he was driving to the basket, he had a very high pass rate to the bigs or to Ross in the corner. Demar's ball handling an passing skills was the big improvement in his game last year.

Ross doesn't have those kind of ball skills right now.


And? There's plenty of SF's with ball skills who operate as primary or secondary ballhandlers (Lebron, George, Durant, Pierce, Parsons, Melo, etc). That distinction you've mentioned is just made up in your mind.

It's actually much easier to argue that Ross as a lighter dude and far better 3 point shooter fits the mold of a classic SG more than DD.

At the end of the day there's wings and PG's.
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#219 » by Mahoner » Mon Jul 7, 2014 6:43 pm

Do we get back the 1.98M for De Colo now that he signed in Russia?
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Re: Raptors Cap Situation (Update Novak + PP) - How much for 

Post#220 » by hankscorpioLA » Mon Jul 7, 2014 7:02 pm

Mahoner wrote:Do we get back the 1.98M for De Colo now that he signed in Russia?


I'm not sure what you mean by "get back". We extended the QO. Now that he is going to sign in Russia, we will rescind the offer.

When free agency "officially" opens on the 10th, that QO won't be out there anymore, if that is what you mean.
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