*UPDATE* Deeks article: How to offer Melo $20M, keep Taj etc

Boarder Patrol · Post #61 » by **Boarder Patrol** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:01 pm

WinCity wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:
Knicksfan20 wrote:
I was joking, but you are delusional if you think you are getting Melo for nothing.

Knicks might lose him for nothing. There's your real talk.

Apparently its OK to lose him for nothing in free agency they just can't trade him for exprigin contracts and modest picks because that would ruin everything!

We'd much rather let him walk out West for nothing, or keep him for ourselves than trade him in conference for bad contracts and crappy picks.

WinCity · Post #62 » by **WinCity** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:03 pm

Boarder Patrol wrote:
WinCity wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:
Knicks might lose him for nothing. There's your real talk.

Apparently its OK to lose him for nothing in free agency they just can't trade him for exprigin contracts and modest picks because that would ruin everything!

We'd much rather let him walk out West for nothing, or keep him for ourselves than trade him in conference for bad contracts and crappy picks.

If the contract expires after the season how is it bad? It doesn't impinge on the plan to get cspspace next off season and you get picks.

logical_art · Post #63 » by **logical_art** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:07 pm

I don't get #1. A) why do those guys need to be traded to NY and b) why does Hinrich need to be sign and traded?

Boarder Patrol · Post #64 » by **Boarder Patrol** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:08 pm

WinCity wrote:
Boarder Patrol wrote:
WinCity wrote:

Apparently its OK to lose him for nothing in free agency they just can't trade him for exprigin contracts and modest picks because that would ruin everything!

We'd much rather let him walk out West for nothing, or keep him for ourselves than trade him in conference for bad contracts and crappy picks.

If the contract expires after the season how is it bad? It doesn't impinge on the plan to get cspspace next off season and you get picks.

Maybe bad was the wrong word. Mediocre. You don't just take on contracts because they're not bad. And you don't just take on contracts to help an in conference team get your best player and a great supporting cast.

If it reaches the point where you guys need a sign and trade for Melo to come, we're not accepting a modest payment of meh players and a late pick or two. There's no incentive for us there.

WinCity · Post #65 » by **WinCity** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:12 pm

Boarder Patrol wrote:
WinCity wrote:
Boarder Patrol wrote:
We'd much rather let him walk out West for nothing, or keep him for ourselves than trade him in conference for bad contracts and crappy picks.

If the contract expires after the season how is it bad? It doesn't impinge on the plan to get cspspace next off season and you get picks.

Maybe bad was the wrong word. Mediocre. You don't just take on contracts because they're not bad. And you don't just take on contracts to help an in conference team get your best player and a great supporting cast.

If it reaches the point where you guys need a sign and trade for Melo to come, we're not accepting a modest payment of meh players and a late pick or two. There's no incentive for us there.

That sounds more reasonable but I do think you over emphasis the conference rival element. These things have happened before. Harden to HOU, And Gasol to LA come to mind. If you are losing Melo anyway then you are looking at a 3--4 year rebuild anyway and thats the end of our window with Melo. I don't see think the tension is such that NY needs to turn down assets .

Boarder Patrol · Post #66 » by **Boarder Patrol** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:22 pm

WinCity wrote:
Boarder Patrol wrote:
WinCity wrote:

If the contract expires after the season how is it bad? It doesn't impinge on the plan to get cspspace next off season and you get picks.

Maybe bad was the wrong word. Mediocre. You don't just take on contracts because they're not bad. And you don't just take on contracts to help an in conference team get your best player and a great supporting cast.

If it reaches the point where you guys need a sign and trade for Melo to come, we're not accepting a modest payment of meh players and a late pick or two. There's no incentive for us there.

That sounds more reasonable but I do think you over emphasis the conference rival element. These things have happened before. Harden to HOU, And Gasol to LA come to mind. If you are losing Melo anyway then you are looking at a 3--4 year rebuild anyway and thats the end of our window with Melo. I don't see think the tension is such that NY needs to turn down assets .

And how we're the Gasol/Harden trades received?

I'm not saying this situation replicates those, though. What I'm saying is there's no reason for NYK not to hold our for as many assets as possible. We're not just gifting Melo to a team that can't afford him out right when his other options are to rot in LA or re-sign with us.

I think a middle ground of Mirotic and a couple of picks is perfectly fair.

Ring_Me · Post #67 » by **Ring_Me** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:24 pm

I beg to differ wrote:Derrick didn't come to recruit Melo because he knew that Melo is already a Bull.

Your sources is as good as my sources. :cuddle

WinCity · Post #68 » by **WinCity** » Sun Jul 6, 2014 6:33 pm

Boarder Patrol wrote:
WinCity wrote:
Boarder Patrol wrote:
Maybe bad was the wrong word. Mediocre. You don't just take on contracts because they're not bad. And you don't just take on contracts to help an in conference team get your best player and a great supporting cast.

If it reaches the point where you guys need a sign and trade for Melo to come, we're not accepting a modest payment of meh players and a late pick or two. There's no incentive for us there.

That sounds more reasonable but I do think you over emphasis the conference rival element. These things have happened before. Harden to HOU, And Gasol to LA come to mind. If you are losing Melo anyway then you are looking at a 3--4 year rebuild anyway and thats the end of our window with Melo. I don't see think the tension is such that NY needs to turn down assets .

And how we're the Gasol/Harden trades received?

I'm not saying this situation replicates those, though. What I'm saying is there's no reason for NYK not to hold our for as many assets as possible. We're not just gifting Melo to a team that can't afford him out right when his other options are to rot in LA or re-sign with us.

I think a middle ground of Mirotic and a couple of picks is perfectly fair.

Understood. Of course NY should try to extract what they can. I just don't see the conference aspect of it playing much, if any, role.

IMO if we are giving away a prospect of Mirotics caliber the picks you receive will be of lesser value e.g. the Kings and or Cavs pick .

MarkDeeks · Post #69 » by **MarkDeeks** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 10:27 pm

I wrote it up because I was being harrassed by the (Hinrich) po po and my family were getting scared. I do believe this addresses any questions you may have, but I will take more.

http://www.hoop365.com/nba/eastern-conf ... t-carmelo/

WinCity · Post #70 » by **WinCity** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 10:52 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:I wrote it up because I was being harrassed by the (Hinrich) po po and my family were getting scared. I do believe this addresses any questions you may have, but I will take more.

http://www.hoop365.com/nba/eastern-conf ... t-carmelo/

Great article. Thanks for the write up,

I have a question though. Is there any scenario under which the Bulls can sign Melo to a starting salary in the range of 20 -22 mil without a sign and trade from NY?

MarkDeeks · Post #71 » by **MarkDeeks** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 10:52 pm

Only if you move Taj, really.

Bandit King · Post #72 » by **Bandit King** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 10:55 pm

Why we need Taj? Mirotic is the future and can play now!

jax98 · Post #73 » by **jax98** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 11:03 pm

Bandit King wrote:Why we need Taj? Mirotic is the future and can play now!

Why limit yourself to one, when you can have both?

Look at this eight-man rotation:

Noah
Gibson/Mirotic
Anthony/McDermott
Butler
Rose/Augustin

Find a back-up center (or hell, use Anthony Randolph) and you're looking pretty damned good.

WinCity · Post #74 » by **WinCity** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 11:25 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:Only if you move Taj, really.

Yeah that was my assumption as well. Basically everybody goes but Rose, Noah, Butler, and the rookies. Just wanted to double check it was doable.

Sign and trade remains the golden goose though as it allows us to keep the best roster as you noted.

MarkDeeks · Post #75 » by **MarkDeeks** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 11:42 pm

If Melo wants to join the best team possible, that's the play right there. If it's about money, Chicago can't win.

WinCity · Post #76 » by **WinCity** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 11:49 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:If Melo wants to join the best team possible, that's the play right there. If it's about money, Chicago can't win.

If you could somehow convince Gasol to come on the cheap then it still works out quite well.

Mech Engineer · Post #77 » by **Mech Engineer** » Mon Jul 7, 2014 11:51 pm

Mark
Thanks for the read...The only question will the extra tax the Knicks are going to pay for taking all these small contracts instead of letting Melo walk make a difference?

I guess next year they will be under the cap anyways, so they reset the repeater tax button.

Considering the state taxes, jock taxes which were put out in that CNNSI article about Melo's salaries, the Bulls offer is probably closer to the NY max/year even without the Knicks taking Boozer.

MGB8 · Post #78 » by **MGB8** » Tue Jul 8, 2014 4:17 am

I posted this in the Melo thread, but it quickly got lost in twitter mene's and and1s, and would love to have an answer:

If the Bulls got the Jazz to take Boozer, MJD, a resigned Kirk at 2ish and a resigned Nazr at 1ish (under the theory that the Jazz are over 20 million away from the floor, may not want to max Hayward, need vet leadership for the youngins and don't mind 1 year of a Booz redux), can the Bulls get a 23million dollar TPE?

If so, couldn't that TPE be "sent" to NY, plus picks, for Mel?. Sweeten the pot by letting them dump JR Smith or Prignoni on the Bulls for unguaranteeds?

DanTown8587 · Post #79 » by **DanTown8587** » Tue Jul 8, 2014 4:28 am

MGB8 wrote:I posted this in the Melo thread, but it quickly got lost in twitter mene's and and1s, and would love to have an answer:

If the Bulls got the Jazz to take Boozer, MJD, a resigned Kirk at 2ish and a resigned Nazr at 1ish (under the theory that the Jazz are over 20 million away from the floor, may not want to max Hayward, need vet leadership for the youngins and don't mind 1 year of a Booz redux), can the Bulls get a 23million dollar TPE?

If so, couldn't that TPE be "sent" to NY, plus picks, for Mel?. Sweeten the pot by letting them dump JR Smith or Prignoni on the Bulls for unguaranteeds?

No. TPE are for the value of the contract of an individual player. If they did that deal, they'd have a 16.8 million exception for Boozer, roughly 3.3 for Dunleavy. But if NY wanted to deal for cap space and Jazz wanted to deal, the deal could be done at the same time.

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MGB8 · Post #80 » by **MGB8** » Tue Jul 8, 2014 4:35 am

DanTown8587 wrote:
MGB8 wrote:I posted this in the Melo thread, but it quickly got lost in twitter mene's and and1s, and would love to have an answer:

If the Bulls got the Jazz to take Boozer, MJD, a resigned Kirk at 2ish and a resigned Nazr at 1ish (under the theory that the Jazz are over 20 million away from the floor, may not want to max Hayward, need vet leadership for the youngins and don't mind 1 year of a Booz redux), can the Bulls get a 23million dollar TPE?

If so, couldn't that TPE be "sent" to NY, plus picks, for Mel?. Sweeten the pot by letting them dump JR Smith or Prignoni on the Bulls for unguaranteeds?

No. TPE are for the value of the contract of an individual player. If they did that deal, they'd have a 16.8 million exception for Boozer, roughly 3.3 for Dunleavy. But if NY wanted to deal for cap space and Jazz wanted to deal, the deal could be done at the same time.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

So can be done simultaneously, just not "non-simultaneously.". Hope Utah is willing (maybe a 1st for their troubles).

That 3 way could keep the Bulls fully loaded, with exceptions to sign Niko and hopefully DJ,