OT-WTF Magic?

[Notanoob]

In light of the Magic repeating trying to repeat our 2009 season (overpaying Ben Gordon and Charlie Ville-I mean Channing Frye), I was wondering if anyone had some nice articles lying around about what a cancer Ben Gordon was? Magic fans seem to have some delusion that Gordon can bring 'veteran leadership' and is a 'high character guy' and I'd really like to break them of those illusions. It's kind of pathetic really.

[ComboGuardCity]

2 years ago coach Dunlop told Gordon to stop dribbling while he was trying to coach. Gordon ignored him and continued to dribble.


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[Blkbrd671]

Why even bother? BG's going to destroy those illusions really quickly

[DBC10]

I'm still laughing at the overpay of Frye.

Suns fans were even more enthused then I was too. That says a lot really.

[Sheeeeed]

Their whole offseason has been one big wtf.

[Notanoob]

2 years ago coach Dunlop told Gordon to stop dribbling while he was trying to coach. Gordon ignored him and continued to dribble.


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Was he a part of that player mutiny?

I feel like I should be asking the Bobcats/Horent's board about his bad behavior.

[HotelVitale]

Their whole offseason has been one big wtf.

It has. Aaron Gordon instead of a PG...then reaching for Payton, and then cutting Jameer so he has to play now? Afflalo (who plays a position of need) for cap space...which they blow on Channing Frye (who plays a position they're deep at)? Ben Gordon for more than $8.50 an hour?

It seemed like they went all-in on the ultimate 'play the kids' strategy but then they shelled out pretty big money to guys that will take away minutes from those guys. I mean, signing Frye for 4 years means you're giving up on O'Quinn or Nicholson as big pieces.
Oladipo/Elf Payton
Ben Gordon/ Oladipo/ E Moore
Tobias Harris/ Harkless/ A Gordon
Frye/O'Quinn/Nicholson
Vucevic/Maxiell

They're not idiots though, so my guess is they think they have the option of flipping Frye in a year (maybe even this year) for something useful and seeing if he's a good mentor in the meantime. And BG allows them to throw Payton into the fire while still having an out if Payton can't hack it (which i really doubt he can this season). They're going to be bad either way, this way they have options to play some competent vets if the team seems frustrating or tense when it's all kids. (Wait, did I just refer to BG as competent?)

[jakebernat]

they have had quite a questionable offseason, but Payton, Dipo, Harkless, and Gordon are going to one hell of a defensive quartet for a while

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[rmfc]

Don't know what happened there.

[The Penguin]

I don't think it's THAT bad. They've got an interesting young core with Vuc/Gordon/Harris/Harkless/Dipo/Payton. They badly need some shooting & some vets. Frye helps solve that on both fronts. I think if teams just continue to stack lotto picks without adding a true franchise level guy you end up like the Wolves or Kings and guys can't wait to leave. They really need to turn Harkless/Nicholson/cap space into a quality starting 1-3.


As for the Ben Gordon deal, that's either desperate or idiotic, but they probably figure they've got the space.

[ComboGuardCity]

they have had quite a questionable offseason, but Payton, Dipo, Harkless, and Gordon are going to one hell of a defensive quartet for a while

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None of them can shoot.


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[ComboGuardCity]

2 years ago coach Dunlop told Gordon to stop dribbling while he was trying to coach. Gordon ignored him and continued to dribble.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Was he a part of that player mutiny?

I feel like I should be asking the Bobcats/Horent's board about his bad behavior.

I don't think so? I remember people will still calling him a professional back then.


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[jakebernat]

they have had quite a questionable offseason, but Payton, Dipo, Harkless, and Gordon are going to one hell of a defensive quartet for a while

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None of them can shoot.


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There's still plenty of years left in their careers, young grass smoker

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[Minas]

2 years ago coach Dunlop told Gordon to stop dribbling while he was trying to coach. Gordon ignored him and continued to dribble.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Was he a part of that player mutiny?

I feel like I should be asking the Bobcats/Horent's board about his bad behavior.

I don't think so? I remember people will still calling him a professional back then.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Congrats on 20k posts

[HotelVitale]

they have had quite a questionable offseason, but Payton, Dipo, Harkless, and Gordon are going to one hell of a defensive quartet for a while

Except Harkless and Gordon play the same position (if Gordon plays the 3 as expected)... and both are behind Tobias Harris in the depth chart. And choosing Payton meant skipping Smart, who's a superior defender and creator (though an equally weak shooter.)

I'm not saying they don't have a plan, it's just that these moves seem a little Kahn-esque. Loading up with too many prospects without thinking of fit or overlap, then dumping vets that fit and to sign vets that would seem to get in the way of their prospects.

I don't think it's THAT bad. They've got an interesting young core with Vuc/Gordon/Harris/Harkless/Dipo/Payton. They badly need some shooting & some vets. Frye helps solve that on both fronts. I think if teams just continue to stack lotto picks without adding a true franchise level guy you end up like the Wolves or Kings and guys can't wait to leave. They really need to turn Harkless/Nicholson/cap space into a quality starting 1-3.

I don't think it's bad yet, just confused about what the plan is. It seems like now they're counting on half their prospects being washouts--there's zero minutes available for Nicholson, Harkless, and Fournier, and not much for O'Quinn and A Gordon or T Harris (depending on who gets the back-up minutes at SF). And they traded away Afflalo--a quality starting 2 who specializes in shooting--basically to get Frye, a worse player who creates a logjam. For me, the problem is that the Magic seem to be mostly in hyper rebuild/talent-acquisition mode but then make some head scratching moves that seem to indicate a different plan.

Also, no one has left the Kings or Wolves before signing a full post-rookie extension, and both those teams have lots of vets that they've signed (the Kings are 75% vets, only a few rookie-deal guys). Those signings just didn't work out or didn't fit their personnel, and the teams ended up being bad or mediocre for a long time. And the Wolves had a franchise-level guy whom they pissed off with bad management and not-quite-good-enough on-court performance.

[Ghost]

If I was an Orlando Magic fan, I would be on suicide watch after these signings. That seems a little bit extreme, but these are absolutely awful. I could rationalize the BG signing because it's a two year deal, 4.5M is very moveable, there team IS SERIOUSLY LACKING in 3PT shooting and BG can provide that. If he gets 20-25 minutes off the bench in a 6th man role, gets the ball in his hands a lot and has the green light, maybe he puts up some nice numbers (inflated) which would revive his trade value (then they could flip him for a second or something *shrug* like they did for AA).
Anyways, the Frye signing is absolutely terrible in terms of what they are getting. He's more of the veteran leader and hard worker, but 8M per is insane. Put these two contracts together, 12.5M, seriously... why not just throw that 12.5M or add another 1.5M and throw it at a guy like Hayward, Bledsoe,Parsons, Monroe, Stephenson, any of these RFA... call their bluffs, see if you can strike a S&T because of the overload of "assets" that DON'T FIT together (this isn't like the 1970s-there's a 3pt line). Seriously do not get their planning at all, they seem completely lost and out of their mind. I was extremely disappointed in their drafting this past season as well, I hated both their picks (maybe I'll be wrong - but I think both will bust).

[wallace72]

Don't know what happened there.

Now i remember what i felt with the signings of CV31 & BG in 2009....

[jakebernat]

they have had quite a questionable offseason, but Payton, Dipo, Harkless, and Gordon are going to one hell of a defensive quartet for a while

Except Harkless and Gordon play the same position (if Gordon plays the 3 as expected)... and both are behind Tobias Harris in the depth chart. And choosing Payton meant skipping Smart, who's a superior defender and creator (though an equally weak shooter.)

I'm not saying they don't have a plan, it's just that these moves seem a little Kahn-esque. Loading up with too many prospects without thinking of fit or overlap, then dumping vets that fit and to sign vets that would seem to get in the way of their prospects.

I don't think it's THAT bad. They've got an interesting young core with Vuc/Gordon/Harris/Harkless/Dipo/Payton. They badly need some shooting & some vets. Frye helps solve that on both fronts. I think if teams just continue to stack lotto picks without adding a true franchise level guy you end up like the Wolves or Kings and guys can't wait to leave. They really need to turn Harkless/Nicholson/cap space into a quality starting 1-3.

I don't think it's bad yet, just confused about what the plan is. It seems like now they're counting on half their prospects being washouts--there's zero minutes available for Nicholson, Harkless, and Fournier, and not much for O'Quinn and A Gordon or T Harris (depending on who gets the back-up minutes at SF). And they traded away Afflalo--a quality starting 2 who specializes in shooting--basically to get Frye, a worse player who creates a logjam. For me, the problem is that the Magic seem to be mostly in hyper rebuild/talent-acquisition mode but then make some head scratching moves that seem to indicate a different plan.

Also, no one has left the Kings or Wolves before signing a full post-rookie extension, and both those teams have lots of vets that they've signed (the Kings are 75% vets, only a few rookie-deal guys). Those signings just didn't work out or didn't fit their personnel, and the teams ended up being bad or mediocre for a long time. And the Wolves had a franchise-level guy whom they pissed off with bad management and not-quite-good-enough on-court performance.

-aaron gordon will not play SF in the nba, at least not the majority of his minutes. i can guaransheed that.
-payton is a much better playmaker than smart. he might not be as versatile defensively, but he's still a dog on that end and should have no trouble giving opposing PG's fits. it's possible they sought after payton because they view dipo and smart as similar players whose basketball abilities don't compliment each other.
-it's entirely possible that they're stockpiling young talent to try and land a star player via trade much like the rockets did a few years ago when they landed harden.

[MrBigShot]

12 mil dedicated to Frye/BG. Yikes...

Really a shame. BG was so fun to watch in Chicago before we signed him.

[The Penguin]

I don't think it's THAT bad. They've got an interesting young core with Vuc/Gordon/Harris/Harkless/Dipo/Payton. They badly need some shooting & some vets. Frye helps solve that on both fronts. I think if teams just continue to stack lotto picks without adding a true franchise level guy you end up like the Wolves or Kings and guys can't wait to leave. They really need to turn Harkless/Nicholson/cap space into a quality starting 1-3.

I don't think it's bad yet, just confused about what the plan is. It seems like now they're counting on half their prospects being washouts--there's zero minutes available for Nicholson, Harkless, and Fournier, and not much for O'Quinn and A Gordon or T Harris (depending on who gets the back-up minutes at SF). And they traded away Afflalo--a quality starting 2 who specializes in shooting--basically to get Frye, a worse player who creates a logjam. For me, the problem is that the Magic seem to be mostly in hyper rebuild/talent-acquisition mode but then make some head scratching moves that seem to indicate a different plan.

Also, no one has left the Kings or Wolves before signing a full post-rookie extension, and both those teams have lots of vets that they've signed (the Kings are 75% vets, only a few rookie-deal guys). Those signings just didn't work out or didn't fit their personnel, and the teams ended up being bad or mediocre for a long time. And the Wolves had a franchise-level guy whom they pissed off with bad management and not-quite-good-enough on-court performance.

Scott Perry is the Magic assistant GM. Their moves do have a certain Dumars-esque feel to them. Part of me feels like the Magic are what we'd look like if Dumars was given enough job security to launch a full rebuild, but was told it's time to make some money halfway through. Part of me feels like they are Houston circa 2012 and have a whole bunch of assets they can cash in for whatever franchise level guy shakes free.