The Gordon Hayward Thread

[ARHornet]

Put it this way, if they knew the Jazz were demanding Zeller in sign & trade proposals leading up to this, they would have matched on McRoberts rather than fell back on Humphries. They would have known or should have known about the potential loss of Zeller prior to letting McRoberts walk as Humphries is an inferior option. I don't think it's too wild to suggest they're committing to Zeller's and Vonleh's development and that Zeller is staying.

I'd say you are probably right. Vonleh was never getting traded and McRoberts getting away is a sign that Zeller isn't going anywhere either.

I just really hope MKG stays. If we lose him for Gordon Hayward I'll be irate.

[MasterIchiro]

Put it this way, if they knew the Jazz were demanding Zeller in sign & trade proposals leading up to this, they would have matched on McRoberts rather than fell back on Humphries. They would have known or should have known about the potential loss of Zeller prior to letting McRoberts walk as Humphries is an inferior option. I don't think it's too wild to suggest they're committing to Zeller's and Vonleh's development and that Zeller is staying.

I'd say you are probably right. Vonleh was never getting traded and McRoberts getting away is a sign that Zeller isn't going anywhere either.

I just really hope MKG stays. If we lose him for Gordon Hayward I'll be irate.

I believe he's the centerpiece because it's not Zeller plus we need to move Henderson plus our 1st rounders have diluted value based on our trajectory. They could end up really late 1sts. Again, pick 24 in a stacked draft was not enough to pry Afflalo on a measly 1-year guarantee.

[ARHornet]

Put it this way, if they knew the Jazz were demanding Zeller in sign & trade proposals leading up to this, they would have matched on McRoberts rather than fell back on Humphries. They would have known or should have known about the potential loss of Zeller prior to letting McRoberts walk as Humphries is an inferior option. I don't think it's too wild to suggest they're committing to Zeller's and Vonleh's development and that Zeller is staying.

I'd say you are probably right. Vonleh was never getting traded and McRoberts getting away is a sign that Zeller isn't going anywhere either.

I just really hope MKG stays. If we lose him for Gordon Hayward I'll be irate.

I believe he's the centerpiece because it's not Zeller plus we need to move Henderson plus our 1st rounders have diluted value based on our trajectory. They could end up really late 1sts. Again, pick 24 in a stacked draft was not enough to pry Afflalo on a 1-year guarantee.

He may be. Logically, that makes the most sense unless the Jazz are just stupid and are going to let Hayward go for our scrubs. But for me it just isn't worth it. If they want MKG, then we need to say thanks but no thanks and turn our attention to Lance Stephenson. If we trade MKG for anything less than a proven All-Star we'll live to regret it. I'll pass on dealing him for an above average SG who doesn't play defense.

The only way I'd even consider a Hayward for MKG deal would be if we already had a deal lined up with Lance as well, and even then I'd be skeptical.

[Liver_Pooty]

If by some magical pipe dream we were to land both Stephenson and Hayward I would rather go all out and get Hayward and Parsons.

[MasterIchiro]

The only way I'd even consider a Hayward for MKG deal would be if we already had a deal lined up with Lance as well, and even then I'd be skeptical.

Kemba + Lance + Hayward + Jefferson = Big 4!!!

But we should preach the team concept and call ourselves the BUZZ-13

[ARHornet]

If by some magical pipe dream we were to land both Stephenson and Hayward I would rather go all out and get Hayward and Parsons.

Parsons + Hayward on the wing would make our team defensive catastrophe. Kemba would be the best defender and after him every starter would be somewhere in between below average and absolutely awful.

[MasterIchiro]

If by some magical pipe dream we were to land both Stephenson and Hayward I would rather go all out and get Hayward and Parsons.

Houston's guaranteed a return on Parsons since they own his Bird Rights and can sign him to go over cap. There's a team that definitely will match and I don't think we have the powder to pull off 2 sign & trades, so although we may hold significant interest in Parsons, I think it's an either or choice and we went with Hayward as the primary target. Houston can move Lin with Parsons somewhere and pick up assets. They're a good match for a team in need of a stop gap starting PG and multiple first round picks. I'm looking at the Celtics who just drafted Smart and Lin could help groom him. I'm thinking they move Rondo in a 3-team deal where Love goes to Boston. Boston also holds multiple picks from the Nets and one from the Clippers that they can dangle to Morey. You'd think Kevin McHale would be amicable to doing business with his old teammate Danny Ainge as well.

[yosemiteben]

I would rather do Hendo + Neal + multiple 1st rounders than trade MKG. How does it make sense to trade a large chunk of our assets for Hayward when he would be unrestricted next year and could be had for just the cost of his contract? The Jazz are not in a position to be demanding a lot of assets for a S&T if Hayward guarantees them he's going to walk after next season.

[Maneesh]

s&t

hayward (4 years, 50)
for
hairston, taylor, 2015 unprotected 1st, two future 2nd round picks

would you say yes to that deal? we get hayward for less than the reported max money, but we have to give up several assets, however we hang on to MKG, zeller and vonleh.

Jazz match anything and you think this is enough? No way Jazz accept and no way they dont just match it 4/50? I just say it as its so! Sorry if you dont like.

[Liver_Pooty]

s&t

hayward (4 years, 50)
for
hairston, taylor, 2015 unprotected 1st, two future 2nd round picks

would you say yes to that deal? we get hayward for less than the reported max money, but we have to give up several assets, however we hang on to MKG, zeller and vonleh.

Jazz match anything and you think this is enough? No way Jazz accept and no way they dont just match it 4/50? I just say it as its so! Sorry if you dont like.

You can just keep him then if you want.

[MasterIchiro]

I would rather do Hendo + Neal + multiple 1st rounders than trade MKG. How does it make sense to trade a large chunk of our assets for Hayward when he would be unrestricted next year and could be had for just the cost of his contract? The Jazz are not in a position to be demanding a lot of assets for a S&T if Hayward guarantees them he's going to walk after next season.

That proposal lacks a centerpiece. I can't envision an exchange where one team loses their franchise guy and fan favorite and the other side refuses to move a centerpiece.

[yosemiteben]

I would rather do Hendo + Neal + multiple 1st rounders than trade MKG. How does it make sense to trade a large chunk of our assets for Hayward when he would be unrestricted next year and could be had for just the cost of his contract? The Jazz are not in a position to be demanding a lot of assets for a S&T if Hayward guarantees them he's going to walk after next season.

That proposal lacks a centerpiece. I can't envision an exchange where one team loses their franchise guy and fan favorite and the other side refuses to move a centerpiece.

Fine, then pick up Hayward when he's unrestricted. The only leverage Utah has is keeping Hayward for a single season. That package is compensation for letting him go a year early. Why are we selling low on MKG just to have Hayward around for one extra season?

[fatlever]

the only way i see hayward getting a max contract is if the jazz refuse to play ball on a sign and trade deal. then it simply becomes a game of poker. if a team can convince the jazz to agree to a sign and trade, there is no need to overpay so much to get hayward.

i dont get the sense that hayward is simply using this visit as a way to get a better deal from the jazz. im sure they have made him a fair offer (they made him a fair offer last year). i definitely get the impression that hayward wants to leave the jazz for the chance at playing in the playoffs. total guess, but he might even be willing to go back and play out the season and become a UFA rather than signing a long-term deal with the jazz (if he believes they are nowhere near playoff level, which they arent).

there is no point in hayward signing a deal that he thinks will get matched, if it is true that he isnt using this just to squeeze more money out of the jazz.

[BeesWax]

s&t

hayward (4 years, 50)
for
hairston, taylor, 2015 unprotected 1st, two future 2nd round picks

would you say yes to that deal? we get hayward for less than the reported max money, but we have to give up several assets, however we hang on to MKG, zeller and vonleh.

Jazz match anything and you think this is enough? No way Jazz accept and no way they dont just match it 4/50? I just say it as its so! Sorry if you dont like.

Or he signs the one year tender deal with you guys if you won't trade him and leaves for nothing next season since the Jazz can't trade him. If he really wants out, and I am not saying he does, the money he gets won't be a match issue. He can agree to a deal here not sign anything and there is nothing to match. Then he goes to the Jazz and says work out a deal or I sign the tender play out the year and leave for nothing next off season.

[Liver_Pooty]

3pm now and hes been here for two days and still no word on anything.

This is getting rather peculiar to say the least.

[MasterIchiro]

I would rather do Hendo + Neal + multiple 1st rounders than trade MKG. How does it make sense to trade a large chunk of our assets for Hayward when he would be unrestricted next year and could be had for just the cost of his contract? The Jazz are not in a position to be demanding a lot of assets for a S&T if Hayward guarantees them he's going to walk after next season.

That proposal lacks a centerpiece. I can't envision an exchange where one team loses their franchise guy and fan favorite and the other side refuses to move a centerpiece.

Fine, then pick up Hayward when he's unrestricted. The only leverage Utah has is keeping Hayward for a single season. That package is compensation for letting him go a year early. Why are we selling low on MKG just to have Hayward around for one extra season?

You assume there's no option where Hayward signs long term with the Jazz. You assume there's no loyalty there and that he will play hardball to get out of Utah. And you assume the Jazz, if they refuse the sign & trade and force him to sign the offer sheet, won't/can't ship him out somewhere at the trade deadline to a team offering a more useful piece than that package that lacks a centerpiece.

[fatlever]

s&t

hayward (4 years, 50)
for
hairston, taylor, 2015 unprotected 1st, two future 2nd round picks

would you say yes to that deal? we get hayward for less than the reported max money, but we have to give up several assets, however we hang on to MKG, zeller and vonleh.

Jazz match anything and you think this is enough? No way Jazz accept and no way they dont just match it 4/50? I just say it as its so! Sorry if you dont like.

its an agreed sign and trade, different from just signing him with the hopes the jazz dont match. the whole point of a sign a trade is to give up assets to convince a team to agree not to match.

if there is no agreement for a sign and trade, then hayward never signs the contract and we are back to square one.

[yosemiteben]

That proposal lacks a centerpiece. I can't envision an exchange where one team loses their franchise guy and fan favorite and the other side refuses to move a centerpiece.

Fine, then pick up Hayward when he's unrestricted. The only leverage Utah has is keeping Hayward for a single season. That package is compensation for letting him go a year early. Why are we selling low on MKG just to have Hayward around for one extra season?

You assume there's no option where Hayward signs long term with the Jazz. You assume there's no loyalty there and that he will play hardball to get out of Utah. And you assume the Jazz, if they refuse the sign & trade and force him to sign the offer sheet, won't/can't ship him out somewhere at the trade deadline to a team offering a more useful piece than that package that lacks a centerpiece.

I am definitely assuming Hayward wants to come to Charlotte, as are you if you are hoping for a sign and trade.

I am also definitely assuming that no team is going to send Utah a core piece at the deadline for Hayward when he is about to expire.

I feel like both of those are very safe assumptions if Hayward to Charlotte is going to happen.

[MasterIchiro]

Fine, then pick up Hayward when he's unrestricted. The only leverage Utah has is keeping Hayward for a single season. That package is compensation for letting him go a year early. Why are we selling low on MKG just to have Hayward around for one extra season?

You assume there's no option where Hayward signs long term with the Jazz. You assume there's no loyalty there and that he will play hardball to get out of Utah. And you assume the Jazz, if they refuse the sign & trade and force him to sign the offer sheet, won't/can't ship him out somewhere at the trade deadline to a team offering a more useful piece than that package that lacks a centerpiece.

I am definitely assuming Hayward wants to come to Charlotte, as are you if you are hoping for a sign and trade.

I am also definitely assuming that no team is going to send Utah a core piece at the deadline for Hayward when he is about to expire.

I feel like both of those are very safe assumptions if Hayward to Charlotte is going to happen.

It's not safe to assume that both Hayward and Charlotte are willing to wait a year. Hayward can get injured and lose big time long term money (even if it's with the Jazz) and Charlotte could become less attractive to Hayward if Jefferson opts out, then the front office has to juggle both negotiations and could wind up empty handed.

[MasterIchiro]

Put more simply, if I'm Gordon Hayward and his agent my priorities are:

1) Sign a long term deal with Charlotte via sign & trade this summer
2) Sign a long term deal, guaranteeing myself long term money with my home team Jazz
3) Delay my big payday, play out the year in Utah, risk injury for the opportunity to sign wherever I want to play

The home team has all the leverage imo.

The player is really limited.

And that's why they call Hayward a 'restricted' free agent.