You know the Jays are toast when... (latest injury)

dagger · Post #1 » by **dagger** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:04 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/487023112173547521[/tweet]

I'm sorry, but the emerging back story here is that Lind didn't get an MRI until today. Apparently, his MOTHER nagged him to get one because the team hadn't ordered one yet.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gregorMLB/status/487025696506920960[/tweet]

If he's been hobbling around for two weeks and the medical/training staff didn't order an MRI, they should all be fired. We've had so many injuries to position players this year, many of them hamstrings and quads, I wonder about the physical fitness regime this team employs. The Leafs, playing a contact sport, have fewer injuries than the Jays.

Randle McMurphy · Post #2 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:13 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SNBarryDavis/status/487024304685461504[/tweet]

Sounds like he had one to begin with and then had another one which discovered it?

Either way, the Jays are going to have to bring up Dan Johnson.

dagger · Post #3 » by **dagger** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:17 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/SNBarryDavis/status/487024304685461504[/tweet]

Sounds like he had one to begin with and then had another one which discovered it?

Either way, the Jays are going to have to bring up Dan Johnson.

That would seem to conflict with the quote above.

Macho · Post #4 » by **Macho** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:58 am

Just put us out of our misery.

Dan2087 · Post #5 » by **Dan2087** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:21 am

Time to take the dog (Jays season) behind the old wood shed...

Mehar · Post #6 » by **Mehar** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:37 am

I accidentally posted this in the game day thread- but this is terrible news about Lind since he is out 6-8 weeks. It is like the Baseball Gods can never give this team and fanbase a break. EE and Lawrie are probably out for 4 more weeks, even though EE said he will come back early. Sucks that this franchise can never catch a F'N Break (SMH). 3 key guys out of the lineup for this extended time and i pretty much think that the division is Baltimore's to lose. Sucks because the East was winnable. The Baseball Gods can never give this franchise and fanbase a break. Same story for the past 21 years. Absolutely horrible.

Michael Bradley · Post #7 » by **Michael Bradley** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:42 am

Yeah, with Edwin, Lind, and Lawrie out for an extended period of time, plus Bautista hobbling and Reyes declining before our very eyes, I'd say it's time to retool for next year.

Let Hutchison get up to 140 innings or so, then shut him down. Same with Stroman. See if the team can get value for Reyes, DIckey, and Buehrle at the deadline. Then go into next season with Bautista, Edwin, Lawrie, and hopefully a better, cheaper, healthier core group.

Santoki · Post #8 » by **Santoki** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:06 am

Literally 30 games ago we had a 6 game lead in the division. Only July 9th, we're sellers. This is why you don't talk playoffs in May. With Tanaka going down, it looks like Baltimore will run away with the division.

Randle McMurphy · Post #9 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:14 am

Santoki wrote:Literally 30 games ago we had a 6 game lead in the division. Only July 9th, we're sellers. This is why you don't talk playoffs in May. With Tanaka going down, it looks like Baltimore will run away with the division.

Baltimore is the favourite now, but 2 games out of the division in mid-July doesn't equate to being sellers.

Michael Bradley · Post #10 » by **Michael Bradley** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 am

]The only reason the Jays MAY have a shot heading into August is the first 20 games after the break (assuming they keep the gap within 3 games at the break). The Orioles face nothing but playoff teams for the first 17 games after the break (including a 10-game West trip right out the gate), and the Jays have the Rangers, Red Sox, Astros, and Yankees over that same span. Games can be made up there in a hurry if the O's falter (they have the A's, Angels, Mariners, and Nationals over that span). Then there is a 3-game set in Toronto.

But with all these injuries, I'm not sure an easier schedule will make much of a difference. AA has been getting very lucky with his minor league signings and waiver pick-ups (Francisco, Reimold, Muni, Tolleson, etc), but he can't replace what he has lost and figures to lose down the stretch (Hutchison and Stroman potentially being shut down).

It might be too early to sell, but I think a retool will accomplish pretty much the same objective as long as the players they get back are MLB ready.

whysoserious · Post #11 » by **whysoserious** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:22 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:Baltimore is the favourite now, but 2 games out of the division in mid-July doesn't equate to being sellers.

They don't seem to want to be buyers either...Flawed roster now getting hit with injuries and the losses are mounting.

They need to pick one of the two and pick fast.

Randle McMurphy · Post #12 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:29 am

whysoserious wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Baltimore is the favourite now, but 2 games out of the division in mid-July doesn't equate to being sellers.

They don't seem to want to be buyers either...Flawed roster now getting hit with injuries and the losses are mounting.

They need to pick one of the two and pick fast.

They'd have to have the capacity to add salary to be buyers. For the last 12 months, they haven't had that.

whysoserious · Post #13 » by **whysoserious** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:34 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:They'd have to have the capacity to add salary to be buyers. For the last 12 months, they haven't had that.

I get that they committed a ton of money to this roster and it has proven to be severely flawed with a lot busts along the way and simply not good enough. So while Rogers may not be happy with the return on their investment of funds last year and stopped the money they need to either be buyers or sellers.

Standing pat just isn't good enough.

Randle McMurphy · Post #14 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:38 am

whysoserious wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:They'd have to have the capacity to add salary to be buyers. For the last 12 months, they haven't had that.

I get that they committed a ton of money to this roster and it has proven to be severely flawed with a lot busts along the way and simply not good enough. So while Rogers may not be happy with the return on their investment of funds last year and stopped the money they need to either be buyers or sellers.

Standing pat just isn't good enough.

Standing pat is what they've done since last offseason. Doubt it will change much unless Beeston can convince ownership to do otherwise (which seems very unlikely).

Michael Bradley · Post #15 » by **Michael Bradley** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:44 am

whysoserious wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:They'd have to have the capacity to add salary to be buyers. For the last 12 months, they haven't had that.

I get that they committed a ton of money to this roster and it has proven to be severely flawed with a lot busts along the way and simply not good enough. So while Rogers may not be happy with the return on their investment of funds last year and stopped the money they need to either be buyers or sellers.

Standing pat just isn't good enough.

In 2009, the same thing happened (roster was frozen, only minor league signings and waiver pick-ups were made until the Rolen trade/Rios dump mid-season). I'm almost positive Rogers did the same thing this year with the hope that the team would falter and salary dumping could begin without fan backlash. Turns out, while JPR was picking up relics like Kevin Millar, Michael Barrett, Matt Clement, Raul Chavez, etc, AA actually struck some gold with Francisco, Tolleson, Kawasaki, potentially Reimond, etc. The collapse is likely here to stay, especially with the injuries, but I don't think Rogers ever had any intention of "buying" even if the team were first place. As I said before, this team either makes the playoffs as is, or misses the playoffs and hires a new GM/manager, with no dumping happening in between.

RapsFanInVA · Post #16 » by **RapsFanInVA** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:55 am

This is all shaping up for an epic September push. Just enough to miss the playoffs.

Post #17 » by **Schad** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:13 am

Michael Bradley wrote:Yeah, with Edwin, Lind, and Lawrie out for an extended period of time, plus Bautista hobbling and Reyes declining before our very eyes, I'd say it's time to retool for next year.

There is no next year. It's this year, or it's 2018. Load up with short-term modest-cost options, hope to bridge the gap to the return of those players, and hope that we win more than we lose in the AL East grinder in August/September. and if we don't, blow 'er sky high.

Michael Bradley · Post #18 » by **Michael Bradley** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:25 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Michael Bradley wrote:Yeah, with Edwin, Lind, and Lawrie out for an extended period of time, plus Bautista hobbling and Reyes declining before our very eyes, I'd say it's time to retool for next year.

There is no next year. It's this year, or it's 2018. Load up with short-term modest-cost options, hope to bridge the gap to the return of those players, and hope that we win more than we lose in the AL East grinder in August/September. and if we don't, blow 'er sky high.

Bautista and Encarnacion are still elite players. The team will have to get lucky with trades (i.e. trade Reyes/Dickey/Buehrle for some combination of 2B, LF, CF, SP, RP, etc, options), but I don't think it's unreasonable to try for it next year, assuming Rogers doesn't pocket all the saved money (which they might/probably will).

Post #19 » by **Schad** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:33 am

Michael Bradley wrote:
Bautista and Encarnacion are still elite players. The team will have to get lucky with trades (i.e. trade Reyes/Dickey/Buehrle for some combination of 2B, LF, CF, SP, RP, etc, options), but I don't think it's unreasonable to try for it next year, assuming Rogers doesn't pocket all the saved money (which they might/probably will).

I don't think that it's unreasonable, but it's increasingly unlikely. If we're looking at losing multiple core players in free agency, and then trading several expensive vets to find fixes, we're at the point where it's a massive uphill battle to stay above .500, let alone compete in what is likely to be an improved East (I mean, it can't get worse...right?).

dagger · Post #20 » by **dagger** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:39 am

The question is... if this roster can't win, and whether it's because it's imbalanced, injury-prone, weak-minded, poorly managed, whatever, should we tinker around the edges to try to remain relevant, or should we take our best over-30 assets and see what the market will give for them.

I mean if Jeff Samardjiza can fetch Addison Russell, a very elite prospect not far from being ready, what does Edwin Encarnacion and/or Jose Bautista fetch? If the alternative to this year is 2018, might making more aggressive - and yes painful - moves bring that forward a year or two, by which time we could have a very young, low cost controllable rotation of Hutchinson, Stroman, Norris, Sanchez and... fill in the blank. The free agent market for bats this coming winter is supposed to be especially weak, which would maybe make our prime assets even more valuable.

I don't like the idea of rebuilding, but I hate the idea of delaying the inevitable rebuilding way more.