Raptors Cap Situation - Woj: Cap at 70 million, Tax 84.7 million

[LieCheatSteal]

So,

$4.4 to play with?

I'm thinking the Raps would be keeping Buycks at 0.8. As a third string PG that knows the system, you can't do worse.

So, what can the Raps get for 3.6? They can stretch Fields out, giving them 3.2 mill. for 6.8 million. That could get the Raps into the Vince Carter sweepstakes. Although, this would take minutes away from Ross.

[Skeezo]

ok how else would you have me do it? Contact the agents to get the official numbers? Buycks hasnt been guaranteed or waived so im not counting him. We have till the 22nd Masai waits till the last day to decide on these things because he can be added to a trade and allow you to take back more salary.

Also, for all you know the numbers i posted could be accurate. So doesnt make a lot of sense to say they are no where close to being accurate, now does it? When i get official numbers i will update it.

Glad he at least thanked you for the work... It's about a close to as accurate as you are going get at the moment, which is a hell of a lot more accurate then I see some of the reporters put out there... They miss Camby's buyout, & don't equate BeBe's contract at all... I think both Rapsobsessed & I agree or at least hopeful all our deals are evenly paid out rather then raises to keep flexibility going forward but you never know until numbers are officially posted... In my numbers I have scaled in the 120%, so both versions are out there as well...

Although I do think you can get rid of some of your predictions from the first post as they have come to pass & get rid of the cap holds for PP/GV/ND as they are all meaningless now...

Either way figure we have somewhere between 4m-6m beneath the tax depending on structures... I believe Masai will want some sort of 1-2m breathing room from the tax (in case of injuries/trades) so I really don't see how we are able to offer anybody more then a 3-4m salary...

yup. I think our numbers are pretty close now, so that should be a good indication that we are pretty accurate assuming the contracts start where we predict them too. I have removed the QOs & cap holds from the OP. Thank you for your work by the way, its nice having an outlined picture of years to come.

You as well my friend... Nice to have more then a few of us here who really report the ramifications of all this, especially when considering all the talk we hear of either 2015 or 2016... My question is what do you think next? Not a lot of space to add anybody of substance this year... Considering the way FA is going the deals we have signed have been reasonable yet at the same time a lot more then I initially intended & it is hindering our future a bit... 2015 still looks pretty good, but with the cap holds in 2016 it is not looking healthy for the Durant watchers out there...

[Rapsobsessed7]

You as well my friend... Nice to have more then a few of us here who really report the ramifications of all this, especially when considering all the talk we hear of either 2015 or 2016... My question is what do you think next? Not a lot of space to add anybody of substance this year... Considering the way FA is going the deals we have signed have been reasonable yet at the same time a lot more then I initially intended & it is hindering our future a bit... 2015 still looks pretty good, but with the cap holds in 2016 it is not looking healthy for the Durant watchers out there...

I agree i think this Durant dream is very difficult. JV, Ross & likely Derozan will all need new deals. What i think next is Masai looks to add a defensive SF via trade and not through FA. Someone like Hansbrough comes to mind as a potential trade chip. Then in 2015 you have a bunch of all-star level bigs available in free agency so you have to make a decision on Amir.

[SaveTheHens]

If he is NOT waived by the 22nd, it is guaranteed. He has not been waived yet, so it's at least 50/50 at this point. And again, a HUGE majority of rookies don't get scale but 120% of scale. Not sure why you keep assuming that they will only get scale. That alone means we have less than $4.5M under the Tax threshold. Not trying to be difficult but it almost seems that you want to err on having more more under the Tax than is realistically possible

im not going to retype what i already said to you. When he is guaranteed and they have not waived him on the 22nd i will include him in my calculations. If you dont understand that please refer to my last post.

I assumed they would only get scale because the Raptors would contribute to Bebes buyout. I have since changed the OP to reflect your wishes. Perhaps next time you should do a thread like this.

Not sure why I touched a nerve, just trying to give you some feedback. Cheers.

I can see why it touched a nerve, OP is dedicating time to some quality information and then hes annoyed by nitpickers. He explained earlier to another poster why he didn't list buycks and then he has to explain it all over again because you didn't bother to read. The rooks may get 120% but until the deals are official he may as well stay on the safe side

[dagger]

We've been assuming, on the basis of no evidence in particular, that every deal we've announced is flatlined. That may not be the case. We have to wait on Mark Deeks to get us the numbers.

[Skeezo]

I agree i think this Durant dream is very difficult. JV, Ross & likely Derozan will all need new deals. What i think next is Masai looks to add a defensive SF via trade and not through FA. Someone like Hansbrough comes to mind as a potential trade chip. Then in 2015 you have a bunch of all-star level bigs available in free agency so you have to make a decision on Amir.

I think you may be right on the trade front, although I have a feeling we are pretty much done for right now. Got this feeling around deadline time he might be looking for a bigger fish using Fields/Hayes with picks... I think it's time, with Bruno/BeBe/Daniels now we don't need to get any younger... I like the thought of 2015 but with LMA probably staying in Portland. K.Love likely to be dealt to team with a thought of an extension & K.Farid being RFA... Milsap is really the only guy left that I might consider over Amir, speaking of which is a big year for him, probably should have had the surgery...

[S.W.A.N]

im not going to retype what i already said to you. When he is guaranteed and they have not waived him on the 22nd i will include him in my calculations. If you dont understand that please refer to my last post.

I assumed they would only get scale because the Raptors would contribute to Bebes buyout. I have since changed the OP to reflect your wishes. Perhaps next time you should do a thread like this.

Not sure why I touched a nerve, just trying to give you some feedback. Cheers.

I can see why it touched a nerve, OP is dedicating time to some quality information and then hes annoyed by nitpickers. He explained earlier to another poster why he didn't list buycks and then he has to explain it all over again because you didn't bother to read. The rooks may get 120% but until the deals are official he may as well stay on the safe side

I think the point is that the safe side is just to assume 120%. Its rare for it not to happen that way and to base your numbers on anything else is not realistic.

Its not a big deal its just if you are trying to be as precise as possible so we know what cap room our team actually has, using the right numbers are important

[dhackett1565]

If we assume instead that every deal is backloaded, then the space below the tax comes out almost exactly at the full MLE plus the vet minimum. Considering there were reports that this deal was waiting on the exact tax numbers, I do not see that being a coincidence. I fully expect all deals are back loaded and we now have the MLE and a vet min exception to work with.

[wtcantfw]

We've been assuming, on the basis of no evidence in particular, that every deal we've announced is flatlined. That may not be the case. We have to wait on Mark Deeks to get us the numbers.

Mark Deeks, as in yourself? lol Kidding.

[isyed]

We've been assuming, on the basis of no evidence in particular, that every deal we've announced is flatlined. That may not be the case. We have to wait on Mark Deeks to get us the numbers.

Any chance the deals might be front loaded instead of back? ie Lowry and Patterson starting at 14 and 7 mill respectively?

I know it takes away any chance of using the MLE but sets us up very very nicely for 2016.

We can still get some space if we trade Fields and Hayes for shorter expiring contracts.

[rapz101]

In 2016 we gotta a whole bunch of expiring contracts and ppl that need to get paid...i know with derozan he will be an UFA so he will be the priority, but both JV and Ross are going to be RFA...

Is there a way we do this similar to how the rockets are goin with parsons and bosh, where toronto holds up on Jv and ross while offering max money to durant and a good deal for derozan, and then matching anythin for JV and Ross... Granted this will put us way over the luxury tax, but are we gunna make a better team then that?

I think not, and TL says he is willing to spend the cash, this seems doable but it will be very tricky and ross, Jv, and derozan all need to be on the same page... The summers of 2015 and '16 are gunna be interesting to say the least, but this seems like the only way we get durant via signing.

[isyed]

In 2016 we gotta a whole bunch of expiring contracts and ppl that need to get paid...i know with derozan he will be an UFA so he will be the priority, but both JV and Ross are going to be RFA...

Is there a way we do this similar to how the rockets are goin with parsons and bosh, where toronto holds up on Jv and ross while offering max money to durant and a good deal for derozan, and then matching anythin for JV and Ross... Granted this will put us way over the luxury tax, but are we gunna make a better team then that?

I think not, and TL says he is willing to spend the cash, this seems doable but it will be very tricky and ross, Jv, and derozan all need to be on the same page... The summers of 2015 and '16 are gunna be interesting to say the least, but this seems like the only way we get durant via signing.

Cap Holds will be too high. Almost 11.5 mill for Jonas and 8 mill for Ross. Best option is to resign them next offseason at good deals. I am hoping 5 yr 60 million for Jonas and 4 yr 40 mill for Ross if they both develop well. They can both be backloaded contracts starting at something like 8-9 mill and 5-6 mill respectively to give us max space.

[isyed]

I hope we could extend Amir this offseason at a discount at the expense of him taking some time off for surgery so he can get some security. Something like a 4 year 25 mill year extension would ensure this would not be his contract year and could get his ankles fixed up for good. We have some depth and we could start his contract at 4 mill in 2016 with a backloaded contract to give us max space for 2016.

Same with Derozan. Hope he negotiates a long term max contracts starting 2017 and just picks up his option for 2016. this would give the maximum space we need to resign Durant in 2016.

[Raps Militia]

Until Nogueira will not sign the contract with us, we have 6.2 millions that can be used.

[isyed]

For those wondering about 2016 offseason. Here is my post from the Durant thread with updated number.

Sign him 2016

This is a tricky option but could be possible as well. Assume we will offer a salary starting at 18 mil and OKC will not be willing to do a S&T. We can also assume Salary cap at 70Mill which would mean rest of our players would have to be signed at 52Mill.

All our FA signing from this summer would have to be on a declining contract.
Derozan will have to not opt out instead just so a contract extension
Ross, Vas and Val would have to be resigned next summer with contract extension at lowest starting salaries. Vas will be key part of our recruiting class.
Amir would have to renegotioate his partially guaranteed contract now and also be on a declining contract. I would hope we can provide him the security to go and get his surgery done by signing him to longer contract but at a smaller starting salary.
Assume we sign VC this offseason at a 2 yr contract and then sign him to vet 1 yr to be part of recruiting team for Durant which would be Vet min and not count on the salary cap.

The key is Patterson and Lowry contracts are key. If they both are flat contracts then we need another 2.5 mill space for Durant but if they are declining front loaded then we can sign all players and also Durant.

Contracts

Val - 2016 starting salary 9 mill (Contract extension of 5yr/60Mill)
Ross - 2016 starting salary 5 mill (Contract extension 4 yr/30Mill)
Lowry - 2016 salary 12 mill or 9.5 mill
Amir - 2016 salary 4 mill (Contract extension 4yr/20 mill starting 2016)
Derozan - 2016 salary 9.5 mill (Contract extension 5yr/80 mill starting 2017)
Paterson - 2016 salary 6 mill or 5 mill (Contract extension 4yr/25 mill starting 2017)
Vasquez - 2016 salary 5 mill (Contract extension 4yr/24 mill starting 2016)
Bruno - 2016 salary 2 mill
Bebe - 2016 salary 2mill
Total Salary - 51 Mill or 54.5 Mill

Team would be

Val/Bebe
Amir/PP
Durant/Bruno/VC
Derozan/Ross
Lowry/GV

Sign 4 Vets to round off the roster.

Following summer you can extend Derozan, PP, GV, Lowry and go into luzury tax if the team is good enough and we can contend. We can add another MLE player if we need more players.

[isyed]

So,

$4.4 to play with?

I'm thinking the Raps would be keeping Buycks at 0.8. As a third string PG that knows the system, you can't do worse.

So, what can the Raps get for 3.6? They can stretch Fields out, giving them 3.2 mill. for 6.8 million. That could get the Raps into the Vince Carter sweepstakes. Although, this would take minutes away from Ross.

I could see Masai trading Hayes, Fields and Hans for a smaller expiring contract. The 3 combine for about 15.5 mill expiring. We can trade all three for 1 or 2 expiring players at 13.2 mill giving us about 3.3 more mill to play with. Essentially 6.5 mill. Buycks is also min contract i think and they don't count towards cap so about 7.3 mill total or MLE + BE.

I would do 2 years BE for VC at 2 mill per year and MLE on Blatche on 2 + 1(TO) deal. Sign Diwara at min and call it a day.

Lowry/Vas/Buycks
Derozan/Williams
Ross/VC/Diawara/Bruno
Amir/PP/Expiring
Val/Blatche/Bebe

Just below Tax and solid at each position.

[J-Roc]

What happens with James Johnson now?

[ForeverTFC]

im not going to retype what i already said to you. When he is guaranteed and they have not waived him on the 22nd i will include him in my calculations. If you dont understand that please refer to my last post.

I assumed they would only get scale because the Raptors would contribute to Bebes buyout. I have since changed the OP to reflect your wishes. Perhaps next time you should do a thread like this.

Not sure why I touched a nerve, just trying to give you some feedback. Cheers.

I can see why it touched a nerve, OP is dedicating time to some quality information and then hes annoyed by nitpickers. He explained earlier to another poster why he didn't list buycks and then he has to explain it all over again because you didn't bother to read. The rooks may get 120% but until the deals are official he may as well stay on the safe side

All rookies get 120%. I remember Avery Bradley (?) being denied 120% and it was a huge mess with big articles.

To be on the safe side, you over-estimate. But yes, I can definitely see where the frustration would come from.

[ForeverTFC]

What happens with James Johnson now?

By my calculations, with 120% for BeBe and Caboclo, and a guaranteed Buyckes:

We are $4.2 under tax.

Now this assumes all deals spread evenly. So either JJ is getting the full LLE, or a portion of the MLE. By the end of this, we should be about $2 million under tax, which will allow us wiggle room for in season trades if we are taking back more salary than we send out.

It seems that our roster is set.

Lowry/Vasquez/Buyckes
DeRozan/Williams
Ross/Johnson/Caboclo/Fields
Johnson/Patterson/Hansbrough
Valanciuns/Bebe/Hayes

[ForeverTFC]

Johnson will get 2.5 per.

That bring us to $75 million commited (with Buyckes guaranteed and BeBe signed)