The Gordon Hayward Thread

[BeesWax]

As a Jazz fan I hope we wait 72 hours because any team that tries to take a player from us deserves to pay for it.

Any cheap owner who tries to screw his face player deserves to pay for it too. Good for Gordon Hayward and just remember, he prefers Charlotte and can opt out in 3 years. Take care of him for us, if you don't mind.

Actually our owner doesn't make contract negotiations, he lets our GM do the work which is why our franchise hasn't screwed up on handfuls of top 10 picks. I love MJ but let's be honest he was a better player then he is an owner.

Also we didn't try to screw him, hayward isn't worth a max, but i'm sure his agent knew he could get one so he waited, good on him and his agent.

He doesn't prefer Charlotte if he wanted a max from us he would have to accept it from somewhere else.

He definately prefers Charlotte because it is a better team and fit for him. You low balled him and we offered him closer to what he deserved. Nice try to screw your player over but he had the ability to avoid such BS. A player is worth what he knows he can get and you admitted you knew he could get it so you did try to screw him over but lost.

Can tell you don't watch much of us because we really haven't wasted any top 10 picks since Jordan took over and the only pick he was said to have pushed for was Kemba who was our best so far. MKG is a great defender which is very much overlooked and Biz was always a project. How is Kanter working out for you guys?

[BleedTeal]

He doesn't prefer Charlotte if he wanted a max from us he would have to accept it from somewhere else.

That statement makes little to no sense.

He's implying his agent/Hayward used us to get the max with his true favorite destination the jazz.

Ah got ya, I misread it. I need more coffee/whiskey.

[mrknowitall215]

I can't think of a sweeter scenario than Lance signing here for more than 10 million.

I can. How about Lance Stephenson signing here for $8.8 million?

That gets you what the Pacers have, nothing.

Stephenson was insulted by the Pacers offer because he wanted more to return to that turmoil of a locker room. I'll find the post about Stephenson and his agent not necessarily looking for the team with the most money to offer, but the best situation for him on a up-and-coming team

[mrknowitall215]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/saltcityhoops/status/484927871149166592[/tweet]

[Jazzfan154]

Look I get that you're pissed Cho tried to poach him but don't act like your team is all tough and this whole making Charlotte 'pay' is of any consequence in the grand scheme. Our GM's plan accounts for the 3 day window because he can think ahead. Yours failed to do the same and it cost millions. Watch us still get one of our top targets and you'll know you didn't make us pay for squat.

Whoa! I never said anything about my team being all "tough" I just think that waiting would make a statement to the rest of the league that when people try and steal (for lack of a better word) a player from us we are going to make them suffer some sort of a consequence. The Utah franchise has lost sooooo many of our players during free agency to other teams offering contracts that we couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay and I think this would just make them take that into account before offering deals to our players.

Not sure if that made any sense at all.

Also one more question, how did our GM cost the owner money? How could we have avoided this?

[mrknowitall215]

I can't think of a sweeter scenario than Lance signing here for more than 10 million.

I can. How about Lance Stephenson signing here for $8.8 million?

That gets you what the Pacers have, nothing.

[BlackOutBuzz]

As a Jazz fan I hope we wait 72 hours because any team that tries to take a player from us deserves to pay for it.

Oh most definitely. How dare us try something as underhanded as signing a free agent.

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[amcoolio]

Look I get that you're pissed Cho tried to poach him but don't act like your team is all tough and this whole making Charlotte 'pay' is of any consequence in the grand scheme. Our GM's plan accounts for the 3 day window because he can think ahead. Yours failed to do the same and it cost millions. Watch us still get one of our top targets and you'll know you didn't make us pay for squat.

Whoa! I never said anything about my team being all "tough" I just think that waiting would make a statement to the rest of the league that when people try and steal (for lack of a better word) a player from us we are going to make them suffer some sort of a consequence. The Utah franchise has lost sooooo many of our players during free agency to other teams offering contracts that we couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay and I think this would just make them take that into account before offering deals to our players.

Not sure if that made any sense at all.

Also one more question, how did our GM cost the owner money? How could we have avoided this?

Hayward would definitely have accepted 4/48 last season if you offered it, but you didn't go above 4/40 I believe. Now you are paying 4/63.

[MasterIchiro]

Look I get that you're pissed Cho tried to poach him but don't act like your team is all tough and this whole making Charlotte 'pay' is of any consequence in the grand scheme. Our GM's plan accounts for the 3 day window because he can think ahead. Yours failed to do the same and it cost millions. Watch us still get one of our top targets and you'll know you didn't make us pay for squat.

Whoa! I never said anything about my team being all "tough" I just think that waiting would make a statement to the rest of the league that when people try and steal (for lack of a better word) a player from us we are going to make them suffer some sort of a consequence. The Utah franchise has lost sooooo many of our players during free agency to other teams offering contracts that we couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay and I think this would just make them take that into account before offering deals to our players.

Not sure if that made any sense at all.

Also one more question, how did our GM cost the owner money? How could we have avoided this?

Hayward wanted 14 during extension talks. Now he's earning 15.75. 1.75 x 4 = 7 million.

Your GM could have saved your owner 7 million dollars. And really, it's possible Gordon Hayward will be unhappy in Utah during a rebuild. He got to experienced winning with Big Al. He got a taste of it. Now he has to wait for a rookie backcourt to develop in addition to the front court. He became a target of defenses last year and that stunted his game and frustrated him. I get that he's the face and don't expect the Jazz to let their franchise guy walk for nothing but the Jazz don't look like a strong team making a big statement here they look like a team that gambled with the franchise guy and lost. Charlotte doesn't look weak for trying to poach him, they look bold for putting up a max contract for a player who doesn't deserve it. It shows we're willing to pay a premium for a difference maker. So Lance sees this. His agent sees this. And the fact we have to wait 3 days doesn't matter to us. I agree it matters to the Jazz' reputation to create this illusion they're sticking it to Charlotte.

[MasterIchiro]

I can. How about Lance Stephenson signing here for $8.8 million?

That gets you what the Pacers have, nothing.

That's a great thing to say before a feeding frenzy. There are more teams with $$ to spend than talent. He's competitive though, tough and fierce. I love him. He's one player I would not pass up if I couldn't get him on a bargain deal. He's a player I put aside my obsession for neat and tidy bargain deals and make an exception and pay that premium for a difference maker. At this point, Charlotte seems willing to overpay for a difference maker if the alternative is nothing.

[Jazzfan154]

He definately prefers Charlotte because it is a better team and fit for him. You low balled him and we offered him closer to what he deserved. Nice try to screw your player over but he had the ability to avoid such BS. A player is worth what he knows he can get and you admitted you knew he could get it so you did try to screw him over but lost.

Can tell you don't watch much of us because we really haven't wasted any top 10 picks since Jordan took over and the only pick he was said to have pushed for was Kemba who was our best so far. MKG is a great defender which is very much overlooked and Biz was always a project. How is Kanter working out for you guys?

He "definately" prefers Charlotte. -- SOURCE??
How can you or me say we low balled him? We don't even know what the Jazz offered. I think 12 million would have been fair to pay him. 15 is over paying so I wouldn't say closer to what he is worth but yes he was smart to wait as was his agent.

DJ Augustin? Adam Morrison? Biyombo?

If you think MKG is so good look at this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

compare their per 36 minutes

Also Kanter is pretty good on Offense but I admit he isn't very good defensively and for a #3 pick in the draft he really isn't living up to my expectations.

[mrknowitall215]

Look I get that you're pissed Cho tried to poach him but don't act like your team is all tough and this whole making Charlotte 'pay' is of any consequence in the grand scheme. Our GM's plan accounts for the 3 day window because he can think ahead. Yours failed to do the same and it cost millions. Watch us still get one of our top targets and you'll know you didn't make us pay for squat.

Whoa! I never said anything about my team being all "tough" I just think that waiting would make a statement to the rest of the league that when people try and steal (for lack of a better word) a player from us we are going to make them suffer some sort of a consequence. The Utah franchise has lost sooooo many of our players during free agency to other teams offering contracts that we couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay and I think this would just make them take that into account before offering deals to our players.

Not sure if that made any sense at all.

Also one more question, how did our GM cost the owner money? How could we have avoided this?

Hayward wanted 14 during extension talks. Now he's earning 15.75. 1.75 x 4 = 7 million.

Your GM could have saved your owner 7 million dollars. And really, it's possible Gordon Hayward will be unhappy in Utah during a rebuild. He got to experienced winning with Big Al. He got a taste of it. Now he has to wait for a rookie backcourt to develop in addition to the front court. He became a target of defenses last year and that stunted his game and frustrated him. I get that he's the face and don't expect the Jazz to let their franchise guy walk for nothing but the Jazz don't look like a strong team making a big statement here they look like a team that gambled with the franchise guy and lost. Charlotte doesn't look weak for trying to poach him, they look bold for putting up a max contract for a player who doesn't deserve it. It shows we're willing to pay a premium for a difference maker. So Lance sees this. His agent sees this. And the fact we have to wait 3 days doesn't matter to us. I agree it matters to the Jazz' reputation to create this illusion they're sticking it to Charlotte.

I agree with 'Jazzfan154', Cho spurned them knowing Hayward wasn't worth that type of money, and knowing that Utah isn't the type of franchise that can allow talent to walk since they aren't a free-agent destination

[MasterIchiro]

If you think MKG is so good look at this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

compare their per 36 minutes

Uh-oh. You speak such words in the MKG-love dome (*ducks*)

[Jazzfan154]

Hayward would definitely have accepted 4/48 last season if you offered it, but you didn't go above 4/40 I believe. Now you are paying 4/63.

Do you have a source for us only offering 4/40? Serious question, not trying to be a jerk.

[MasterIchiro]

As a Jazz fan I hope we wait 72 hours because any team that tries to take a player from us deserves to pay for it.

Right here. I don't see what you mean by this. The tone is that we're suffering somehow. We're not. We're sending a message to players and agents that if we like you, we will pay a premium. We will not hold back and no threats will deter us from pursuing our targets.

[yosemiteben]

If you think MKG is so good look at this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

compare their per 36 minutes

Uh-oh. You speak such words in the MKG-love dome (*ducks*)

I don't know jack about Kanter except that he couldn't play at UK because of some random semi-pro payments or something. I do know he's two years older than MKG. I also know that MKG is the backbone of our defense. I'm hardly offended when a non-fan looks up MKG's per 36 stats and can't fully appreciate the value he brings. It's when die hard fans do the same thing that I get confused.

[MKGsMotor]

He definately prefers Charlotte because it is a better team and fit for him. You low balled him and we offered him closer to what he deserved. Nice try to screw your player over but he had the ability to avoid such BS. A player is worth what he knows he can get and you admitted you knew he could get it so you did try to screw him over but lost.

Can tell you don't watch much of us because we really haven't wasted any top 10 picks since Jordan took over and the only pick he was said to have pushed for was Kemba who was our best so far. MKG is a great defender which is very much overlooked and Biz was always a project. How is Kanter working out for you guys?

He "definately" prefers Charlotte. -- SOURCE??
How can you or me say we low balled him? We don't even know what the Jazz offered. I think 12 million would have been fair to pay him. 15 is over paying so I wouldn't say closer to what he is worth but yes he was smart to wait as was his agent.

DJ Augustin? Adam Morrison? Biyombo?

If you think MKG is so good look at this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

compare their per 36 minutes

Also Kanter is pretty good on Offense but I admit he isn't very good defensively and for a #3 pick in the draft he really isn't living up to my expectations.

hows our bad drafting and **** owner working out for us? Pretty good. Enjoy not making the playoffs for the next number of years.

[mrknowitall215]

There wasn't anything smart about Cho offering Hayward that offer sheet. Now, every free agent of consequence that is equal to or better than Hayward will be able to demand close to that amount of money. It might've been the dumbest thing I've seen this entire offseason, even worst than the Orlando Magic signings

[Jazzfan154]

Hayward wanted 14 during extension talks. Now he's earning 15.75. 1.75 x 4 = 7 million.

Fair enough, that does sound about right of what he wanted. But that also would be overpaying him. So yes the GM took a chance of letting the market determine what it was worth and we did lose money, but if that is the worst decision our GM makes i'll be okay with that.

[Jazzfan154]

If you think MKG is so good look at this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

compare their per 36 minutes

Uh-oh. You speak such words in the MKG-love dome (*ducks*)

I don't know jack about Kanter except that he couldn't play at UK because of some random semi-pro payments or something. I do know he's two years older than MKG. I also know that MKG is the backbone of our defense. I'm hardly offended when a non-fan looks up MKG's per 36 stats and can't fully appreciate the value he brings. It's when die hard fans do the same thing that I get confused.

+1 I agree stats really don't always mean everything. I mean I really like jeremy evans on the Jazz and if you look at his stats you might not think he's that great. I trust you, you would know more about MKG being a bobcats fan and all.