The One And Only Offseason Thread 2

[bwgood77]

I hate to say it and I don't agree with it, but Greivis Vazquez got $6.5/ yr from the Raps...... IT beet him for the starting job, if memory serves. Greivis is tall, but he didn't average 20 and 6 either.

Whoever is good with lists, someone grab a list that shows who put up 20 and 6 from the PG or SG positions last year...it can't be very long.

His size and defense worries me tremendously, front load the deal, and add TO's after each year on a rich deal. 8,7,6....3 yr $21 mil.

I will pull one up and edit this post with a link in a second.

Definitely not a terrible list to be on. http://bkref.com/tiny/zhLZS

Great work on that BW...thanks.

That list is a very elite list. It should be noted that not even Dragic is on that list....ugh. IT will be paid. That rumored DET deal of $24/3 could even be seen as a steal considering some of the company. Kyrie was also on a losing team last year, had very similar numbers and he just got a max extension. And IT did it in the Western conference. That said his PER is higher than Kyrie's also, which would take into account his defensive presence. I worry a little that once teams start scouting IT, his game will diminish.

Any chance we get a defensive stats breakdown from anyone? BW?

I can't help on defensive stats, and it's obvious Bled is the better defender, but as I've mentioned before, I think PG defense is a bit overrated. Most pgs are orchestrating the game and passing, and you are not guarding a guy who is shooting a ton....if he drives to the basket it's the guys in the middle that are important. No really good pg ever got shut down by a good defending pg...sure, they may make it tougher, but I think it can be a little bit overblown how important this is in the grand scheme of a game.

I do know that Dragic without Bledsoe on the court was MUCH better than the opposite despite the fact Bledsoe is the superior defender. I wouldn't be surprised if the same held true with IT.

The funny thing is, this whole time Sacramento hasn't even really believed in IT and have always talked about finding a starter. He might flourish even more if he felt valued.

[bwgood77]

An opposing team can't give a free agent a 5 year deal, and if by some miracle you were able to get Monroe to accept a deal at 13 mill per (sub max) I assure you the Pistons would match it in a heartbeat.

So do you think Josh Smith is going to be traded? Because it doesn't sound like Monroe likes him being there too much. If so, where do you think Smith goes?

[Revived]

I know this is jumping to conclusions but I think McD should be fired if he signs Thomas and thinks that Thomas can replace Dragic or Bledsoe.

Both Dragic and Bledsoe would take a nasty yucky s**t on Thomas' face.

Thomas is more comparable to f***in Ish Smith and Kendall Marshall.

I'd rather give the injury prone Bledsoe the max contract than pay Thomas even $5 million/yr.

Yeah, you're jumping to conclusions. Read and watch some stuff, look at numbers, think about finances. The more I think about it, the more I think they are ready to sign him if Bledsoe agrees to an offer they don't want to match. It's big time leverage for Phx, and even if they are not interested in Thomas, it's got to make Bledsoe a little nervous to accept a contract elsewhere (if he is only accepting it because he thinks Phx will match).

McD is right to be weary of paying Bledsoe what he might have to. Smart man.

You seriously think its better to pay Thomas even $5M than give Bledsoe $16M?

[sdballer]

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

[SunsFanSSOL]

For the record, I'm totally fine moving ahead with Isaiah and ditching *both* Bledsoe and Goran.

There is a reasonable chance we could do a S&T with Bledsoe going and us getting him, Stauskas and Williams (and maybe a pick) or something.

Injury riddled bledsoe for near max/max or IT better stats than KI for 7-9 million. Its an easy choice.

[Snakebites]

An opposing team can't give a free agent a 5 year deal, and if by some miracle you were able to get Monroe to accept a deal at 13 mill per (sub max) I assure you the Pistons would match it in a heartbeat.

So do you think Josh Smith is going to be traded? Because it doesn't sound like Monroe likes him being there too much. If so, where do you think Smith goes?

By all accounts the reports of Monroe wanting Smith out were false.

I do think Smith will be traded, but that's not the reason. He will be traded because he's an abysmal fit for our team. There were reports that we aren't eager to drop him, but I suspect those are just leaked by management to stop lowball offers.

As far as where he ends up, your guess is as good as mine. There are some teams with cap space that might be receptive if they strike out in free agency. If a trade happens (and I'm hoping it does) it will probably be later in the offseason.

[bwgood77]

You seriously think its better to pay Thomas even $5M than give Bledsoe $16M?

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

[Revived]

You seriously think its better to pay Thomas even $5M than give Bledsoe $16M?

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

Lol yes because the 6'1 build like a truck Bledsoe has a higher chance of getting injured and missing games going forward than the 5'9 scrawny Thomas right?

Your the type of guy who would rather pay 'Melo $10M and take him than pay LeBron $20M+.

[Revived]

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

I thought Kieff is 6th man? Wait I thought Green was 6th man?

[BVPN]

You seriously think its better to pay Thomas even $5M than give Bledsoe $16M?

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

The problem is, a Dragic Thomas backcourt is pretty awful defensively.

[bwgood77]

For the record, I'm totally fine moving ahead with Isaiah and ditching *both* Bledsoe and Goran.

There is a reasonable chance we could do a S&T with Bledsoe going and us getting him, Stauskas and Williams (and maybe a pick) or something.

Injury riddled bledsoe for near max/max or IT better stats than KI for 7-9 million. Its an easy choice.

I guess just a few non super homers hangin.

[sunsbum]

An opposing team can't give a free agent a 5 year deal, and if by some miracle you were able to get Monroe to accept a deal at 13 mill per (sub max) I assure you the Pistons would match it in a heartbeat.

So do you think Josh Smith is going to be traded? Because it doesn't sound like Monroe likes him being there too much. If so, where do you think Smith goes?

By all accounts the reports of Monroe wanting Smith out were false.

I do think Smith will be traded, but that's not the reason. He will be traded because he's an abysmal fit for our team. There were reports that we aren't eager to drop him, but I suspect those are just leaked by management to stop lowball offers.

As far as where he ends up, your guess is as good as mine. There are some teams with cap space that might be receptive if they strike out in free agency. If a trade happens (and I'm hoping it does) it will probably be later in the offseason.

There is almost no way you guys are going to be able to unload smith without giving up some major assets. This isnt the 25 y/o smith we are talking about anymore, hes in his "prime" yet playing worsesester than ever.

[bwgood77]

You seriously think its better to pay Thomas even $5M than give Bledsoe $16M?

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

Lol yes because the 6'1 build like a truck Bledsoe has a higher chance of getting injured and missing games going forward than the 5'9 scrawny Thomas right?

Your the type of guy who would rather pay 'Melo $10M and take him than pay LeBron $20M+.

I'd happily pay either of those guys those prices. Well, Bledsoe has torn his meniscus twice already at an early age. Every time you tear it the torn part must be cut out. Roy tore his a third time RIGHT after getting a huge contract and was done after that. People kept denying he was done but that didn't help. People keep saying Bledsoe's injuries are not that big of deal. Smart on the Suns part to SAY that, but it's certainly not stupid to consider trading him or not investing a ton of cash in him. It might be a little different if we didn't already have Dragic too.

[sunsbum]

You seriously think its better to pay Thomas even $5M than give Bledsoe $16M?

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

Lol yes because the 6'1 build like a truck Bledsoe has a higher chance of getting injured and missing games going forward than the 5'9 scrawny Thomas right?

Your the type of guy who would rather pay 'Melo $10M and take him than pay LeBron $20M+.

Are you just in total denial that Bledsoe is and has been a huge injury risk?

[Snakebites]

So do you think Josh Smith is going to be traded? Because it doesn't sound like Monroe likes him being there too much. If so, where do you think Smith goes?

By all accounts the reports of Monroe wanting Smith out were false.

I do think Smith will be traded, but that's not the reason. He will be traded because he's an abysmal fit for our team. There were reports that we aren't eager to drop him, but I suspect those are just leaked by management to stop lowball offers.

As far as where he ends up, your guess is as good as mine. There are some teams with cap space that might be receptive if they strike out in free agency. If a trade happens (and I'm hoping it does) it will probably be later in the offseason.

There is almost no way you guys are going to be able to unload smith without giving up some major assets. This isnt the 25 y/o smith we are talking about anymore, hes in his "prime" yet playing worsesester than ever.

If that's an accurate assessment then I'd just assume keep him. This team is done giving up assets to unload past mistakes.

We'll have to wait and see. I don't personally blame his failings this year entirely on the abysmal situation he was in this year, but there's always the chance some desperate front office might. The Kings appeared to have some interest before Detroit evidently stopped the talks.

[bwgood77]

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

I thought Kieff is 6th man? Wait I thought Green was 6th man?

Having people confused on who your sixth man is, is actually a great problem to have. Would love to have 3-4 of them.

[SunsFanSSOL]

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

[AtheJ415]

I think very poor is quite the exaggeration. He doesn't always play hard on D, but he's incredibly quick and is very good laterally. He is also pretty damn tough. I think he can definitely improve defensively, but he's not the liability some are making him out to be.

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

[bwgood77]

If that's an accurate assessment then I'd just assume keep him. This team is done giving up assets to unload past mistakes.

We'll have to wait and see. I don't personally blame his failings this year entirely on the abysmal situation he was in this year, but there's always the chance some desperate front office might. The Kings appeared to have some interest before Detroit evidently stopped the talks.

Yeah, personally I was asking because I was kind of wondering if the Suns would even consider him....and I know you could probably use a traditional pg.

The Suns coaching staff seem to be really good at putting people in the right position to succeed. If they can make Gerald Green and Miles Plumlee into starters for a 48 win team, I think they could be pretty successful with whoever they think fits.

A few people here want Monroe, but Smith would probably fit our system better if under control.

[Kerrsed]

IT should be a super 6th man because what he can do is score very efficiently. He's very poor defensively, not just guarding his man but also rotating on team d. He gets tunnel vision and mostly involves teammates when he isn't able to score. As a 6th man at around 5M per, he'd be a good value. But I'm not sure that's what he wants as he's been pretty adamant about needing to be a starter and making starter money.

I thought Kieff is 6th man? Wait I thought Green was 6th man?

I thought Marlon Wayans was 6th man?